A Golden Dawn in Greece

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 07:28PM

leincar wrote: »

I have not read any other posts in this thread, and I don't want to wheather they are pro or anti Golden Dawn.

I however as a European who has lived in Israel, the U.K. and the U.S. before coming home to Ireland, and has a Jewish wife and daughters(5 of the little treasures) am absolutely disgusted that you could probably think that this bunch of the dregs of Greek humanity could possibly be an answer, not only to Greek but European problems.

Have you had a proper look at their manifesto?. They are a Greek version of the NSDAP of the mid 1920's Germany, and look what happened there.

They breed on hate and hate alone to promote themselves to an underclass of people who through their own fault, their parents fault, or lack of opportunity like the tone of the message. It will do nothing but bite them and draw blood on their collective arse's.

I don't care what your personal political beliefs are, but to think that Golden Dawn are the answer tells me a lot as to your personal intellect.

Before you attack me as I'm sure you will try to, I also despise the hard left such as Sinn Fein and People before Profit as as usual politics of either end of the spectrum offer nothing except disharmony.

They protect their fellow citizens from dangers criminals and kick out the local drug dealers from their areas. Do you consider this to be a bad thing?

thebman · 13-05-2012 07:35PM

laoch na mona wrote: »

fascism always works right:rolleyes:

seriously how hasn't this thread been closed

Because it is important to let crazy people have their say so they don't believe most people think like them and they are just being oppressed by a minority in the society who they will brand the elite

Nodin · 13-05-2012 07:38PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They protect their fellow citizens from dangers criminals and kick out the local drug dealers from their areas. Do you consider this to be a bad thing?

I'd imagine its the racism, anti-semitism, torch lit parades, a particular salute and the strange feeling of deja vu that bother him.

RichieC · 13-05-2012 07:50PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They protect their fellow citizens from dangers criminals and kick out the local drug dealers from their areas. Do you consider this to be a bad thing?

Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. - Ben Franklin.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 13-05-2012 07:53PM

RichieC wrote: »

Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. - Ben Franklin.

turning libertarian on us?

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 07:56PM

RichieC wrote: »

Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. - Ben Franklin.

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

I am pie · 13-05-2012 08:00PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

No, no it is not.

Fraudulent entry into currency union followed by global financial crisis combined with poor tax take and massive overspending are the root cause of the current greek problems.

golden lane · 13-05-2012 08:02PM

whoever the greek people vote for....it is their choice...............and theirs alone....

denying them that choice....will result in extremeism....

Ellis Dee · 13-05-2012 08:03PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They also give food, clothes and shoes to poor people. What kind of "thug" would do that?

Look upon it as an investment. "Pump-priming", as it were. :)The Nazis in Germany did the same and it is common practice for all kinds of groups with really nasty agendas to practise "good deeds" and "charity" as part of their window dressing. The youngsters in the Hitlerjugend were really great at helping old ladies across busy streets. It was only later, as adults, that they were more likely to be shepherding Jews, Roma and other "Untermenschen" into the "showers".:rolleyes::rolleyes:.

When they get power their concern for the weak, vulnerable and underprivileged rapidly evaporates. Not to mention human rights or democratic freedoms.

If anyone is interested, today's Daily Torygraph (hardly a leftist rag by any stretch of the imagination) has an interesting article by Christopher Humphries about "Golden" Dawn:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/9260339/This-week-in-Athens-I-saw-my-first-Sieg-Heil.html

Nodin · 13-05-2012 08:11PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

News to me. You've a source for that, I trust?

femur61 · 13-05-2012 08:54PM

Sky News, and most other news sources the Greeks don't want to leave the Euro but they are dragging the whole Eurozone down. If they want money they have to play ball. They want to tear up the bailout agreement and still have the money and the euro. Makes no sense either they abide by agreement or don't and leave.

fianna saor · 13-05-2012 08:56PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

mainstream journalism will always spread lies about parties that have different opinions other than the 'normal'. people who have anti immigration views are shunned even by those who agree but are too afraid to speak out

woodoo · 13-05-2012 09:00PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

If they have people in their country that shouldn't be there then send them home. The same should happen right throughout Europe. But i think these guys only want Greeks full stop. They don't even want legal migrants.

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 09:03PM

Nodin wrote: »

News to me. You've a source for that, I trust?

As I said, immigration is causing a great burden to the Greek economy. http://www.economist.com/node/16847278 Here is more information how illegal immigration is destabilising Greece.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 13-05-2012 09:04PM

fianna saor wrote: »

mainstream journalism will always spread lies about parties that have different opinions other than the 'normal'. people who have anti immigration views are shunned even by those who agree but are too afraid to speak out

theres probably some truth in the second part of that.. but it's also true that a lot of what is dressed up as "anti immigration views" is just old fashioned racism.

leincar · 13-05-2012 09:26PM

laoch na mona wrote: »

fascism always works right:rolleyes:

seriously how hasn't this thread been closed

I have to disagree there. I dislike isms be they on the left wing or right wing. I definately don't do religious fundamentalisms of the Christian, Muslim, or Jewish variety.

However, by giving the people who support these isms a voice it shows up their pure and utter ignorance and the fact that they could all do with a bloody good kick in the arse.

Two people on this thread have posted or liked a post. On a lot of issues I would disagree with them yet on issues like this both Nodin and Wes would share my opinion despite our political differences.

You never shut people up because their politics and opinions differ with your own.

Benny_Cake · 13-05-2012 09:32PM

leincar wrote: »

However, by giving the people who support these isms a voice it shows up their pure and utter ignorance and the fact that they could all do with a bloody good kick in the arse.

Indeed, before the election the Greek media largely ignored Golden Dawn as they felt they should avoid providing them with a platform. That didn't go so well, far better to exposed them for the boorish thugs that they are.

leincar · 13-05-2012 09:39PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

Thats a downright falsehood. I have had reason to go to Greece a couple of times over the last Two years. I posted from Athens on this forum on a couple of occassions. A person who I had meetings with was under me by at least five pay grades if not more, he can retire at 52 despite the fact that he works for a private company.

I earn a seven figure salary after tax, if I retire at 52 it'll be by my own work and grind, and not a state saying so.

In a hotel I stayed in, the concierge could retire at 50 on approximately 37/40ths of his final salary(index linked). His retirement was based on the simple fact that he had spent his working life on his feet.

The above two examples were not caused by immigrants but pure and simple greed and collusion on behalf of both the Greek government and unions.

As for crime, it happenes everywhere. In the last week I posted that my car tyres had been slashed in Carlow town. Crap happens everywhere no matter the colour of your skin, the God you do or do not believe in or the smell of your faeces.

fianna saor · 13-05-2012 09:47PM

leincar wrote: »

I have to disagree there. I dislike isms be they on the left wing or right wing. I definately don't do religious fundamentalisms of the Christian, Muslim, or Jewish variety.

However, by giving the people who support these isms a voice it shows up their pure and utter ignorance and the fact that they could all do with a bloody good kick in the arse.

Two people on this thread have posted or liked a post. On a lot of issues I would disagree with them yet on issues like this both Nodin and Wes would share my opinion despite our political differences.

You never shut people up because their politics and opinions differ with your own.

have to say thats the most sensible post from 'that side of the argument' lets say. many people here have different views to my own but i would never wish to shut them up because of that reason and vice versa. people who come to light with such views are usually classed as 'extremists, nutters, nazis, commis,etc' because their politics are radically different. ive often heard the phrase 'if history has taught us anything' in an argument against radical change, but the same could be said for mainstream politics lets say for example if history has taught us the likes of fianna fail has screwed this country but lets go ahead and vote the nearest thing to them into government.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 09:58PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

As I said, immigration is causing a great burden to the Greek economy. http://www.economist.com/node/16847278 Here is more information how illegal immigration is destabilising Greece.

Of the 106,200 people detected trying to cross illegally into the European Union in 2009, almost three-quarters were stopped in Greece (see chart).

I'm not seeing "millions of migrants" wrecking Greece there, which is what you stated. Nor does anyone link the countries problems to that.

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 10:02PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greece

If you combine the illegal and legal immigration we are talking about over a million people.

leincar · 13-05-2012 10:26PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They protect their fellow citizens from dangers criminals and kick out the local drug dealers from their areas. Do you consider this to be a bad thing?

Thats what law and order is for. If the police authorities are not doing there job correctly, you have to ask why. This after all is Greece where the greasing of palms is not unknown.

On your post, how do they protect? what public mandate have they received? Who exactly are they 'protecting' and what price are they exacting for same 'protection?'

Do you condone vigilanties? Much and all as I despise scumbags, who are these people to tell who is and isn't guilty of a crime. More importantly who decides what the crime is?

I think if you scratch the surface, the majority of problems are caused by 'Golden Dawn' supporters from the right and KKK(Communists) from the left.

Once again echoes from the Weimar Republic.

leincar · 13-05-2012 10:36PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greece

If you combine the illegal and legal immigration we are talking about over a million people.

So now you have to combine both legal and illegal immigration.

O.K. on that basis we should deport both illegal immigrants and legal immigrants from E.U. countries.

Well hello and welcome home to the 1 million people in the U.K. who claim Irish citizenship and the countless other Irish throughout the E.U.

On your logic should Greece welcome home all of their people who have emigrated in the past to other European countries. Do we stop at Europe.

Hello Sydney and Melbourne, all your Greeks are going home to the old country.

Really, think about it, you are talking pure and utter sh1te.

Dr Galen · 13-05-2012 10:53PM

leincar wrote: »

I have to disagree there. I dislike isms be they on the left wing or right wing. I definately don't do religious fundamentalisms of the Christian, Muslim, or Jewish variety.

However, by giving the people who support these isms a voice it shows up their pure and utter ignorance and the fact that they could all do with a bloody good kick in the arse.

Two people on this thread have posted or liked a post. On a lot of issues I would disagree with them yet on issues like this both Nodin and Wes would share my opinion despite our political differences.

You never shut people up because their politics and opinions differ with your own.

Personally speaking, this is exactly the reason that I wouldn't close this thread.

Expose the nonsense and bile that comes from groups like Golden Dawn, and you win the fight against them. Ignore it, and hope it goes it away (which it won't) and you lose.

laoch na mona · 13-05-2012 10:56PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greece

If you combine the illegal and legal immigration we are talking about over a million people.

how many are in positions of power and legal ones have every right to be there
you cant blame foreigners when your government makes a mess of things

Denerick · 13-05-2012 11:13PM

A rise in extremism is the price countries pay for mass austerity. Greece is suffering a collapse not seen since the great depression. Its inevitable that such groups should emerge as electoral forces. But take heed - the left and far left great, vastly outnumbered the golden dawn vote in the most recent election. I'm not seeing Nuremberg just yet.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 11:16PM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Greece

If you combine the illegal and legal immigration we are talking about over a million people.

You earlier article put "illegals" at 300,000. Theres still no sign of this phenomena of them "wrecking" greece.....

Whats your problem with legal immigration.

Benny_Cake · 13-05-2012 11:22PM

leincar wrote: »

I think if you scratch the surface, the majority of problems are caused by 'Golden Dawn' supporters from the right and KKK(Communists) from the left.

Once again echoes from the Weimar Republic.

Leftwing violence in Greece tends to emanate from self described "anarchists", who are unrepresented in parliament. The KKE may be unreformed Stalinists, but they are disciplined ones and have no chance of winning political power (no real desire to do so either). The Golden Dawn make no secret of their violence.

jank · 14-05-2012 05:47AM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

do communist groups go around beating up immigrants and killing people *before* they get into power?

i guess the neo nazis just try harder so they get more attention

Well I guess they save their savagery and cruelty until after they get into power. They spend most of their efforts outside of power sprouting off socialist "workers of the world unite" claptrap. Communist regeimes have killed far more then facist regeimes have had so I was just curious why both are not rightly targeted by the media. Like you never have theards here giving out about it but can have many about the national front in France, Golden Dawn in Greece, even the BNP in the UK, a favourite pastime for many.

books4sale · 14-05-2012 06:10AM

...Adolf?

A Golden Dawn in Greece

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