Politicians salaries.

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 09:18PM #1

Given the austerity that the rest of the country will have to endure in the next 10 years it would only be reasonable for MP's to have their salaries slashed to around €27k a year. I see no reason why they should earn more, to be honest I think it should be like in the old days where politicians did not get paid at all.

Vizzy · 13-05-2012 09:26PM

MP's are in the UK and the last time I checked,they don't use the €

Galwayguy35 · 13-05-2012 09:29PM

50 k for a TD
80 k for a minister
100 k for the Taoiseach
That's more than enough for them and cut out all expenses.

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 09:50PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

50 k for a TD
80 k for a minister
100 k for the Taoiseach
That's more than enough for them and cut out all expenses.

max €40k is good enough for a Taoiseach. Ireland is poor, get with the program. The country cannot afford lavish expenses and high salaries for politicians.

fianna saor · 13-05-2012 09:58PM

id love to see some sort of monitoring system in place to see exactly what hours are put in compared to the average joe... but i do agree i think they are well overpaid

RichardAnd · 13-05-2012 10:01PM

A British MP gets paid 65,738 pounds per year according to the following webpage:

http://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/members-faq-page2/

The Salary of a TD is 92,672 euro per year, according to wikipedia. This does not include expenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachta_D%C3%A1la#Salaries_and_expenses

It may interest some people that MPs in Britain were not actually paid at all until about 100 years ago. People did not go into politics because it paid well, it was all about connections, power and of course, some did have good intentions. In the United States, the same can be said for the Office of the President because many of the men who held that office did not even draw their salaries.

I don't generally go into for begrudgery of Irish politicians because I have little interest in what is essentially a circus but it seems to me that the Dail is a ticket to a handy job and a secure future.

fianna saor · 13-05-2012 10:10PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

A British MP gets paid 65,738 pounds per year according to the following webpage:

http://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/members-faq-page2/

The Salary of a TD is 92,672 euro per year, according to wikipedia. This does not include expenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachta_D%C3%A1la#Salaries_and_expenses

It may interest some people that MPs in Britain were not actually paid at all until about 100 years ago. People did not go into politics because it paid well, it was all about connections, power and of course, some did have good intentions. In the United States, the same can be said for the Office of the President because many of the men who held that office did not even draw their salaries.

I don't generally go into for begrudgery of Irish politicians because I have little interest in what is essentially a circus but it seems to me that the Dail is a ticket to a handy job and a secure future.

amazing..... but lets cut the money for those who need it most....

golden lane · 13-05-2012 10:14PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

A British MP gets paid 65,738 pounds per year according to the following webpage:

http://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/members-faq-page2/

The Salary of a TD is 92,672 euro per year, according to wikipedia. This does not include expenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachta_D%C3%A1la#Salaries_and_expenses

It may interest some people that MPs in Britain were not actually paid at all until about 100 years ago. People did not go into politics because it paid well, it was all about connections, power and of course, some did have good intentions. In the United States, the same can be said for the Office of the President because many of the men who held that office did not even draw their salaries.

I don't generally go into for begrudgery of Irish politicians because I have little interest in what is essentially a circus but it seems to me that the Dail is a ticket to a handy job and a secure future.

be carefull when comparing td's with mp's......it is not unusual for mp's to get 100 grand expenses..............

BOHtox · 13-05-2012 10:26PM

It's not like for like.

AFAIK, MPs have more backroom staff leaving a lesser workload on the MP. The expenses for MPs are astounding too.

andrew · 13-05-2012 10:30PM

Cutting the salary to 0 would mean only people with another source of income (ie. rich people) could become TD's, which I think would be bad. Also, they probably deserve some wage premium given a) It's not a very secure job (what with an election every few years, and b) [As much as people hate politicians] it is a very tough and demanding job. From what I can tell, being a TD pretty much takes over your life. You can't just go home at 5 and forget about it, you're pretty much at the beck and call of constituents.

Maybe what they're getting is a bit much, but at the same time, there's a logic behind not paying them a pittance.

golden lane · 13-05-2012 10:33PM

BOHtox wrote: »

It's not like for like.

AFAIK, MPs have more backroom staff leaving a lesser workload on the MP. The expenses for MPs are astounding too.

i remember a few years ago.....one mp was claiming 64 grand for postage stamps..........

you could never lick that....

bijapos · 13-05-2012 11:30PM

Personally I'd go

€75k for a TD
€100k for a Minister, Taoiseach or President.

The big problem is however their insane expenses such as travel, overnights, constituency office allowances and expenses, Oireachtas Committee payments, pensions etc etc etc etc.

If you were to tackle the perks properly you might go some way to cutting the bill substantially.

golden lane · 13-05-2012 11:33PM

bijapos wrote: »

Personally I'd go

€75k for a TD
€100k for a Minister, Taoiseach or President.

The big problem is however their insane expenses such as travel, overnights, constituency office allowances and expenses, Oireachtas Committee payments, pensions etc etc etc etc.

If you were to tackle the perks properly you might go some way to cutting the bill substantially.

agreed.....

stoneill · 13-05-2012 11:42PM

Pay then an hourly rate for time in the Dail.
Have all expenses vouched and have reciepts.
All non Dail TD work should be recorded and handed in at the end of the week/month.
Kissing babies and opening shops is not TD work.

Dannyboy83 · 14-05-2012 12:44AM

golden lane wrote: »

be carefull when comparing td's with mp's......it is not unusual for mp's to get 100 grand expenses..............

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh’s insistence that the €50,000 worth of Dell printer cartridges he took from Oireachtas supplies were solely for personal constituency use was far from convincing.

andrew · 14-05-2012 01:16AM

stoneill wrote: »

Pay then an hourly rate for time in the Dail.
Have all expenses vouched and have reciepts.
All non Dail TD work should be recorded and handed in at the end of the week/month.
Kissing babies and opening shops is not TD work.

The problem with that then is the TD's would never see their constituents, except maybe during their constituency hours. They'd never get to interact with them, which means a massive disconnect between voters and politicians; it's pretty hard to trust someone you've never met. The only time you'd see them is during canvassing, and politicians during full on election mode aren't the same as politicians the rest of the time.

Don't get me wrong, I can see where you're coming from in terms of the whole parish pump politics thing. But at the same time, I think it's good for people to be actually able to meet the people they're electing and see what they're like in person.

ninty9er · 14-05-2012 01:30AM

The 2012 budget for the Oireachtas is €116 million. That includes not only the salaries of all members (excluding ministerial allowances paid by departments), but those of the staff, maintenance and operations. For what it does it's much better value than some other public services I could mention.

€116 million is not a lot out of an expenditure of €51 billion. I'm all for efficiencies, and I do thing there's room for a cut, but the savings would likely not add up to more than €3/3.5 million even if you were to cut all TDs by 20% of base salary. Senators don't get paid very well at all so I wouldn't particularly be in favour of cutting that salary.

golden lane · 14-05-2012 01:34AM

ninty9er wrote: »

The 2012 budget for the Oireachtas is €116 million. That includes not only the salaries of all members (excluding ministerial allowances paid by departments), but those of the staff, maintenance and operations. For what it does it's much better value than some other public services I could mention.

€116 million is not a lot out of an expenditure of €51 billion. I'm all for efficiencies, and I do thing there's room for a cut, but the savings would likely not add up to more than €3/3.5 million even if you were to cut all TDs by 20% of base salary. Senators don't get paid very well at all so I wouldn't particularly be in favour of cutting that salary.

is there a vested interest here...????

ninty9er · 14-05-2012 01:42AM

golden lane wrote: »

is there a vested interest here...????

I'm a member of a political part if that's what you mean. I'm not elected to any public office, though I am an elected officer.

golden lane · 14-05-2012 01:48AM

ninty9er wrote: »

I'm a member of a political part if that's what you mean. I'm not elected to any public office, though I am an elected officer.

i just asked to find out, what is your view regarding the best way to make cuts...........there are too many outsiders making suggestions without knowing the facts......

SMASH THE UNIONS · 14-05-2012 08:03AM

Half the number of TDs in the Dail for starters. 166 is far too many for a population of our size. We are one of the most over-represented electorate in the world. Then slash their wages by 50%. No more expenses either except for exceptional circumstances. If Enda wants to go gallivanting around Europe he can take Ryanair, and pay out of his own pocket. Next abolish the Seanad. This expensive debating club is nothing but an Old Boys Club for unelected government cronies to collect another wage packet. Half the number of county and town councillors. Most of them are gombeens anyway and usually related to other politicians. A lot of councils around the country resemble family businesses with fathers, sons and daughters all riding the gravy train together. Way too much local government in Ireland. Can't wait till the Fiscal Stability Treaty is rejected so the IMF return with a slash and burn policy, chucking half of these wasters out on their asses. We might make some savings there.

HarryPotter41 · 14-05-2012 08:29AM

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Given the austerity that the rest of the country will have to endure in the next 10 years it would only be reasonable for MP's to have their salaries slashed to around €27k a year. I see no reason why they should earn more, to be honest I think it should be like in the old days where politicians did not get paid at all.

In the not too distant past TD's were getting paid very basic salaries, unfortunately anyone who knows what it takes to service a constituency knows it takes a substantial income, the travel alone around a constituency in rural Ireland would drain most of the suggested fogure of €27000. It was thought that the low salary was part of what led to the culture of accepting payments from shadier individuals and the reasoning then became to pay a salary that was in line with the hours and expenses being incurred. Personally I think salaries could be cut by another 10% but after that you are again laying the ground for dodgy payments. People who say cut the salaries or pay them nothing need to study a politicians life for a while and see if they would still hold the same view.And for the record, I am a member of a politicial party but not elected, but have seen the strain of the life and the strain financially to serve constiuents.

imfrieda · 14-05-2012 08:36AM

I really have no idea about politician salaries but would love to know how much they earn :rolleyes:

SMASH THE UNIONS · 14-05-2012 08:42AM

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

And for the record, I am a member of a politicial party but not elected, but have seen the strain of the life and the strain financially to serve constiuents.

Nobody is forced to become a politician. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. But of course most politicians choose to join the game for the lavish wages and paid expenses. Our TDs are among the best paid in the world, with Enda Kenny earning more than Obama or David Cameron. It explains why so many sons follow their fathers into the profession, and why Ireland is plagued with so many political dynasties.

Ever wonder why you were not elected? Maybe run on the promise of not collecting any expenses and accepting the average industrial wage...

Dirk Gently · 14-05-2012 09:08AM

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Half the number of TDs in the Dail for starters. 166 is far too many for a population of our size. We are one of the most over-represented electorate in the world. .

Why only half the number. Any one outside of the cabinet is just picking up a cheque for nothing. Get rid of the whip system if we're paying anyone who's not a minister. The dail is just an undemocratic rubber stamping tool.

HarryPotter41 · 14-05-2012 09:27AM

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Nobody is forced to become a politician. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. But of course most politicians choose to join the game for the lavish wages and paid expenses. Our TDs are among the best paid in the world, with Enda Kenny earning more than Obama or David Cameron. It explains why so many sons follow their fathers into the profession, and why Ireland is plagued with so many political dynasties.

Ever wonder why you were not elected? Maybe run on the promise of not collecting any expenses and accepting the average industrial wage...

First of all, what research are you using to back up the statement that politicians enter for the lavish wages and paid expenses, seeing as they ahve only began in the last 15 years? What was their raison d'etre before that when there were no lavish wages or expenses. Most politicians I know do it for much different purposes.As for Obama and Cameron, both have houses ( Cameron has two ) provided by the state, Obama has a fleet of Limos, Air Force One and numerous other large expenses picked up by the Federal government. By your way of thinking Obama should be funding Air Force One out of his own pocket, paying rent on the White House and buying his bomb proof limos out of his salary.Sons follow fathers into lots of professions, its because its what they grow up with, its not exclusively limited to politicians. Perhaps making some study of politics rather than just shouting tried and tested reactionary stuff and it might begin to make some sense.As for me never being elected, it might have more to do with never having ran for office

kippy · 14-05-2012 09:41AM

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Half the number of TDs in the Dail for starters. 166 is far too many for a population of our size. We are one of the most over-represented electorate in the world. Then slash their wages by 50%. No more expenses either except for exceptional circumstances. If Enda wants to go gallivanting around Europe he can take Ryanair, and pay out of his own pocket. Next abolish the Seanad. This expensive debating club is nothing but an Old Boys Club for unelected government cronies to collect another wage packet. Half the number of county and town councillors. Most of them are gombeens anyway and usually related to other politicians. A lot of councils around the country resemble family businesses with fathers, sons and daughters all riding the gravy train together. Way too much local government in Ireland. Can't wait till the Fiscal Stability Treaty is rejected so the IMF return with a slash and burn policy, chucking half of these wasters out on their asses. We might make some savings there.

I think this is the key really.
We have far too many elected representatives in this country (T.D's, Senators, City and Local Councilors), and far to many local (and often ineffective )governments. While there does appear to be a move and a tonne of promises to reduce these numbers, nothing has happened.
Reducing these numbers would reduce the "support costs" dramatically and, in my opinion lead to a more effective, accountable governance at local and national level.

Floppybits · 14-05-2012 11:13AM

For me I think TD's should be paid twice the average industrial wage, a minister twice average industrail wage +10K, Tainiste twice average industrial wage + 15K and Taoiseach twice average industrial wage +20K and all expenses need to be vouched.

I cant see why they are not vouched, most people who work in Jobs that they need to travel or anything like that have to produce receipts. I know when I travel I am have to buy my own plane tickets and pay for the hotel but then claim back the cash and I have to produce the receipts and ticket stubs to show I did actually travel, also there is a list of hotels that I can book with I am allowed a daily allowance for meals which I can claim with no receipts, anything over that and I have to have a receipt.

As for the argument about paying them less will lead to corruption, well then we need to bring in stricter laws that says if they are caught then they will face a trial and will go to prison and if they are guilty they will be paying the costs not the taxpayer.

Why should politicians be any different?

One last thing, I feel that TD's should be restricted to the number of terms they serve, 3 terms is 15 years in the Dail and that is enough. This way we get fresh blood in there every few years.

ednwireland · 14-05-2012 11:19AM

why do whips get an allowance (this is a party issue let them pay)

all expenses should vouched no if's or but's

Fr Tod Umptious · 14-05-2012 12:16PM

I really doubt many people get involved in politics for the lavish salaries etc. as a poster above suggests.

Very few people are going to decide one rainy Monday morning, after a heavy weekend on the beer and a tough commute, to jack in the day job a become a politician cos it pays better.

Politics is a tough job, to even get near a seat in the Dail you have to work day and night 365 days a year, listening to every one who needs to talk to you.
And to keep it you have to work even harder.
There is no clocking off at 5pm and going home to the family to watch BGT.

Those that are involved are often involved from youth, on school and university student councils, or as election and constituency workers for their local representatives, others are the children of representatives and have been involved since childhood in some shape of form.

fianna saor · 14-05-2012 02:59PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I really doubt many people get involved in politic for the lavish salaries etc. as a poster above suggests.

Very few people are going to decide one rainy Monday morning, after a heavy weekend on the beer and a tough commute, to jack in the day job a become a politician cos it pays better.

Politics is a tough job, to even get near a seat in the Dail you have to work day and night 365 days a year, listening to every one who needs to talk to you.
And to keep it you have to work even harder.
There is no clocking off at 5pm and going home to the family to watch BGT.

Those that are involved are often involved from your, on school and university councils, or as election and constituency workers for their local representatives, others are the children of representatives and have been involved since childhood in some shape of form.

no they do it purely for the love of their country:rolleyes:

Politicians salaries.

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