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Internship scheme offers 5,000 work placements to people on the dole

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Comments

  • #1592
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    How is it explotation?

    Companies are encouraged to create experience giving positions that would not exist otherwise.

    You think its better for people to sit at home with a gaping hole in their cv's and work hard all day to pad their K/D ratio on call of duty?

    Speaks volumes about any person who views it as degrading / exploitation etc.

    You have no idea about me. I have worked for 20 years for a large corporation where the bottom line is the be all and end all. The shareholder is king and the workers are commodities. If a manager can get an increased work load done without any increase to the overheads by bringing in people at no cost to his company then it will be done. Call it what you like it is exploitation in my book that an increased workload can be filled in this way when the non availability of these schemes would mean having to hire, creating employment.

    It says a lot about people that cannot see this or maybe they just don't have the experience to understand it will be exploited and long term detrimental to job creation in this country. If you want to fill a gap in your CV, do i with education not as a pawn for exploitive employers.


  • #1593
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    i agree, with each person that signs up to this scheme,it is creating unemployment,its blocking up jobs,if the mass populous said no,they would have no option but to start creating jobs.there was a labour campaign 'the right to work', people should get more involved in that if they want to make a difference.


  • #1594
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    What a truly nasty thing to say. :rolleyes:

    Why I stuck with my internship:

    1. Because it got me out of the house (this is the first time I have been out of work since I was 18 and am now 39)

    2. Because while the whole situation has been degrading, I have learnt some skills ( you can't not learn anything new if you are working for free 39 hours a week)

    3. Because it meant there was no big gap on my CV.

    4. Because it meant that I still kept my JSB 'stamps' (they are kept for the duration of the internship and you only start using them again when you finish); and

    5. Because at the end I have a reference.

    Yes, totally stupid I am. :rolleyes:


    It wasn't nasty. It was pointing out that you stuck with the internship. Therefore you must have believed there was at least some benefit to it. Funnily enough, you mentioned a lot of the positive things that have been mentioned in support of it.

    Other posters have been saying there is absolutely no benefit to any of the jobs, that is pure exploitation. I'm sure that some might try to take advantage, but that post that you selectively quoted was
    And do you think that people are that stupid that they will start a job, think "hey this employer is taking the piss and abusing me" and decide to stay at it for 9 months? What do you think would happen if the employer is resubmitting the job for approval every two weeks :rolleyes:

    You say you are completing an internship, well if it was one where the employer was taking advantage of your free labour and you firmly believe that it was not giving you any benefit at all, and you were foolish enough to stay at it until the end, then I'd frankly think you deserve it!


    There is only one reason why a person would stay on a scheme that was zero practical benefit and you mention it yourself - if the person wanted to extend their dole. In that case the employer would be facilitating a type of fraud.


  • #1595
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    '' Some of the companies availing of the JobBridge scheme, which includes: Tesco, Topaz (Shell), Hewlett Packard, and Aer Lingus made combined gross profits of €8 billion last year.''

    (If you actually google jobbridge and scam a whole load of stuff appears or pathways to poverty and jobbridge)

    http://www.swp.ie/content/ms-brutal%E2%80%99s-attack-welfare

    If that isnt an example of abuse,you must be blind,these companies make billions every year,and can well afford to hire paid staff,as long as FAS and JOBRIDGE are around they will effectively block up what could have been a paid job advertised by Aer Lingus etc..

    It should only be reserved for companies who genuinely cannot afford to hire,and are straigtening themselves out,or smaller local one man businesses.

    The schemes are scams,unemployment lines are longer because of jobbridge,i know recently in the media they made a big deal about how 7,000 internships were hired(for free),how many out of the 7,000 were taken on?
    And all this was merely for show on the first run,what about when they roll this scheme out fully what will happen then,back to the same thing again,no hiring,no paying workers.How many supermacs interns were taken on after there schemes ended?And 50 above my dole would barely cover travel - lunch expenses.Ireland will never get back working with these schemes,our government are stupid,we have tax evading big multinationals landing in ireland,and our government turns around and gives out free workers?completley stupid in my opinion.

    Look, what is a better thing to have on your CV in terms of polishing and adding to it? Suppose you are a new grad from a computer science course. Your choices are
    A) Work at a big multinational like Hewlatt Packard for 6 months
    B) Do "computer support" for your local oxfam shop for 6 months

    That is why they want the multinationals on there. If I was running the scheme I'd be begging the likes of HP/ebay/Facebook/Intel/PWC/Accenture/Deloitte/Apple/whatever to take part!!


    By the way, I'm not saying option B is worthless, just less preferable than A!


  • #1596
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,315 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    http://jobbridgetonowhere.tumblr.com/


    Just in case that's too long to read


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  • #1597
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    Born to Die wrote: »
    You have no idea about me. I have worked for 20 years for a large corporation where the bottom line is the be all and end all. The shareholder is king and the workers are commodities. If a manager can get an increased work load done without any increase to the overheads by bringing in people at no cost to his company then it will be done. Call it what you like it is exploitation in my book that an increased workload can be filled in this way when the non availability of these schemes would mean having to hire, creating employment.

    It says a lot about people that cannot see this or maybe they just don't have the experience to understand it will be exploited and long term detrimental to job creation in this country. If you want to fill a gap in your CV, do i with education not as a pawn for exploitive employers.

    There are basic economic ideas such as marginal benefit and marginal cost. For this case, marginal cost can be thought of as "how much extra will this person cost me".
    Marginal benefit could be "how much extra will this person add"

    If "marginal cost" < "marginal benefit" then you create the job!!!

    If "marginal cost" > "marginal benefit" then don't create the job.

    Does it make sense? So if you decide that the person might add a net 300 Euro a week to your business, you create the job if they cost you less than 300. If you have to pay them 600, then you won't create the job. That is how the scheme might create jobs that would not exist otherwise. The idea is to get people back working. Simple?


  • #1598
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    Its paid jobs that keep our economy afloat due to working people having the ability to pay tax back to our government...While quangos like FAS/ JOBBRIDGE AND TUS ARE JOB SCAMS ROBBING JOBS FROM THE COMMUNITY EXPLOITING I NOTICE THE MOST VUNERABLE PEOPLE OF IRELAND,WHILE PUTTING THE PAW OUT TO GOVERNMENT FOR BILLIONS IN TOTAL..

    Its paid jobs that will get ireland back working not free work schemes that are widely abused by the likes of supermacs for example...


    What is your problem with libraries can I ask? Why give a link in an earlier post to a blog ranting about a library taking on people?

    Do you think that allowing people on the dole to stagnate for years is a better way of keeping the economy afloat :confused: . Because the longer people are on it, there more they become de-skilled and disillusioned.
    An alternative to jobsbridge then might be to limit the dole to a maximum of say two years and maybe even do away with minimum wage. I'm not proposing that, merely playing devils advocate. Would you prefer that strategy?


  • #1599
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    i agree, with each person that signs up to this scheme,it is creating unemployment,its blocking up jobs,if the mass populous said no,they would have no option but to start creating jobs.there was a labour campaign 'the right to work', people should get more involved in that if they want to make a difference.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've posted that you took part in a few similar "job-blocker" schemes? Hardly a person of strong convictions on the subject then :confused:

    There are something like 7000 internships. And what, about 450,000 people on the dole? do you seriously suggest that we get rid of those 7000 internships and suddenly all 450,000 will have jobs created for them? Get real.

    And I also gave you a tongue-in-cheek suggestion before about setting up your own business consulting firm to advise the businesses not taking advantage of what you see as an obvious cost-cutting measure. Because you can see and understand things that the rest of us, and most businesses can't. You'd save them fortunes. Easy money for you too!!


  • #1600
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    ''
    (If you actually google jobbridge and scam a whole load of stuff appears or pathways to poverty and jobbridge)


    If you actually google "911 was an inside job", "elvis is alive", "the world is run by the illumanati" or "aliens at roswell" a lot of sh1te will appear as well. It doesn't mean it's true because it's on the internet :p


  • #1601
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Sitting on my arse doing nothing collecting money from the government or working........................Easy decision for some, not so easy for others, you guess why.


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  • #1602
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    yore wrote: »
    If you actually google "911 was an inside job", "elvis is alive", "the world is run by the illumanati" or "aliens at roswell" a lot of sh1te will appear as well. It doesn't mean it's true because it's on the internet :p

    JOBBRIDGE IS A SCAM,ARE YOU BLIND OR WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU,ARE YOU LIVING UNDER A ROCK..THIS IS NO CONSPIRACY THEORY,THIS IS FACT,THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING EXPLOITED FOR FREE LABOUR...WHAT DO YOU THINK THE LONG TERM GOAL FOR EXAMPLE,SUPERMACS HAVE FOR THEIR CE/INTERNSHIPS,TO TURN AROUND AND SIMPLY HIRE THEM?NO I DONT THINK SO:rolleyes:


  • #1603
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    JOBBRIDGE IS A SCAM,ARE YOU BLIND OR WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU,ARE YOU LIVING UNDER A ROCK..THIS IS NO CONSPIRACY THEORY,THIS IS FACT,THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING EXPLOITED FOR FREE LABOUR...WHAT DO YOU THINK THE LONG TERM GOAL FOR EXAMPLE,SUPERMACS HAVE FOR THEIR CE/INTERNSHIPS,TO TURN AROUND AND SIMPLY HIRE THEM?NO I DONT THINK SO:rolleyes:

    Any links?


  • #1604
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    yore wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've posted that you took part in a few similar "job-blocker" schemes? Hardly a person of strong convictions on the subject then :confused:

    There are something like 7000 internships. And what, about 450,000 people on the dole? do you seriously suggest that we get rid of those 7000 internships and suddenly all 450,000 will have jobs created for them? Get real.

    And I also gave you a tongue-in-cheek suggestion before about setting up your own business consulting firm to advise the businesses not taking advantage of what you see as an obvious cost-cutting measure. Because you can see and understand things that the rest of us, and most businesses can't. You'd save them fortunes. Easy money for you too!!


    First off,dont judge me,we are in a recession,and i did the scheme in the hope of seeking further employment,i did a FAS Ce scheme,and it was no use to me,it even looks bad to have on someones CV,as some interviewers can misconstrue it as someone just doing a handy number,a dole layabout..etc

    I do think those 7000 internships should be scrapped,ill tell you why:because it is job exploitation,for example Aer Lingus ,Hewlitt packard,Tescos,Supermacs,and so on,should be put under pressure to hire for paid staff,these multinationals are international and recession proofed,they have no reason not to hire paid staff,and our government should be encouraging this.If they dont have the free scheme available they have no choice but to hire paid staff.The CE schemes and Internships are being abused,who needs an internship in wiping tables?This is clear exploitation,and what is so postive about it if they dont hire you and just replace you with another freebie.Wake up smell the exploitation.


  • #1605
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    '' Do you think that allowing people on the dole to stagnate for years is a better way of keeping the economy afloat ''

    FAS/ JOBBRIDGE certainly doesnt keep the economy afloat,at the cost of it,its sinking it,and providing no tax back paid work to government.Its expenditure and its not working,its creating unemployment.


  • #1606
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    yore wrote: »
    There is only one reason why a person would stay on a scheme that was zero practical benefit and you mention it yourself - if the person wanted to extend their dole. In that case the employer would be facilitating a type of fraud.

    There is not only one reason.

    I listed several reasons why I stuck with my internship.

    And extending my dole? Errr, after JSB runs out, I will have to apply for JSA which will be the same amount as I don't have any other income coming in, so it isn't like if I didn't do the internship I would get no money.

    Facilitating fraud. :D

    I seriously cannot reply to your posts anymore. :D:D


  • #1607
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    ''Originally the host company was to have contributed €150 per intern to the new scheme - €100 per intern and €50 to the government. Instead there is full state-subsidising of private enterprise to the tune of €20 million.'' http://www.swp.ie/content/ms-brutal%E2%80%99s-attack-welfare

    ..These are people on these schemes(the vast majority) who wont get any work after the cessation of them,20 million is a waste,of perfectly good resources.

    What they should do is have a prerequirement to any of these huge profit guzzling multinationals,is to say ''you have to hire x amount of workers,in order to qualify for the scheme'',otherwise they dont get the free labour..

    This is tax the government should have coming back but dont,and whats worse is it occupies what could have been a paid job advertised..


  • #1608
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    First off,dont judge me,we are in a recession,and i did the scheme in the hope of seeking further employment,i did a FAS Ce scheme,and it was no use to me,it even looks bad to have on someones CV,as some interviewers can misconstrue it as someone just doing a handy number,a dole layabout..etc

    I do think those 7000 internships should be scrapped,ill tell you why:because it is job exploitation,for example Aer Lingus ,Hewlitt packard,Tescos,Supermacs,and so on,should be put under pressure to hire for paid staff,these multinationals are international and recession proofed,they have no reason not to hire paid staff,and our government should be encouraging this.If they dont have the free scheme available they have no choice but to hire paid staff.The CE schemes and Internships are being abused,who needs an internship in wiping tables?This is clear exploitation,and what is so postive about it if they dont hire you and just replace you with another freebie.Wake up smell the exploitation.

    (I wasn't criticising you for doing the scheme btw. I'm in favour of people doing them where possible)


    Under the jobsbridge, an intern cannot be replaced with another intern in a similar role for a cooling off period of 6 months.

    Under a CE scheme you can replace them straight away. As pointed out numerous times, CE schemes are to get people to help their local community. If you have a poor area with no services (and no money to provide them) and you are paying dole to well capable people in that area, why not get them to do something productive for it? Everyone is a winner!!! With a CE scheme, the local GAA team gets a caretaker to look after it's facilities, the local kids benefit from having a nicer club. Jimmy gets out of the house and does something productive. Without it, Jimmy still gets money from the government but sits on his hole all day. The GAA facilities go to sh1te if they can't raise enough money to pay for someone or get someone to do it for free. The kids have worse facilities. People start complaining and blaming the government about being in a deprived area and being provided no amenities.

    My mother did a CE scheme. In a local community place where she had volunteered for free for a while (a few months, maybe a year). A scheme opening came up and she got it. She was doing the stuff for free anyway! It was much nicer for her to be employed to do it rather than signing on and having to ask permission to volunteer. The scheme ran it's course and then she found something else. If she hadn't found something else she probably would have went back volunteering at the same place.

    Do you think that community volunteers should be made illegal? By your logic, they are stealing/blocking an otherwise well paying job from someone else!


  • #1609
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    yore wrote: »
    Do you think that community volunteers should be made illegal? By your logic, they are stealing/blocking an otherwise well paying job from someone else!

    I see where youre coming from on this,it gets people out and about,but there are other ways of doing community work,you could just simply go down the normal volunteer route..

    Its not just stealing / blocking a job from someone else,(im not saying criminalize it)its everybody,its you its me..its anybody who is looking for a paid position,for example i was looking for one online,only to see it was one of those free labour scams attached to it,ie its null,its void,theres no point on me applying,as i had already used up my two years on a ce scheme,which is all im entitled to.

    Under the jobbridge scheme i would only have 9 months,i noticed you mentioned,there is a cooling off period for 6 months...hardly very discouraging to those companies who are overzelous about making profits anywhere they can,even if that includes hiring and having a revolving door of free staff..

    And,No i dont agree,that everybodys a winner..There are communities who deserve to have more employment in their area,whats funny about FAS and JOBRIDGE,TUS and the like is that they say there there for us,when they are there for themselves paying themselves huge paypackets,some even being allowed to give themselves pay rises,drive around in high maintenance mercs,while creating unemployment..and consigning those on the poverty line to even deeper,more longterm unemployment and poverty..
    More should be done about this,the schemes should have clear strict guidelines,a cooling off period of 6 months to my mind,if i was an employer for example,it wouldnt deter me whatsover.


  • #1610
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    There is not only one reason.

    I listed several reasons why I stuck with my internship.

    Sorry, but what are you talking about? You are proving my point. I said there are good reasons to do a scheme. I pointed out that people would not do them otherwise and I also pointed out that you said you are nearly finished one!

    You then restated my arguments against me and listed off what you perceived were the benefits to you of doing the scheme. So it seems that we are agreed that there are benefits for people to these schemes?
    There is only one reason why a person would stay on a scheme that was zero practical benefit and you mention it yourself - if the person wanted to extend their dole
    And extending my dole? Errr, after JSB runs out, I will have to apply for JSA which will be the same amount as I don't have any other income coming in, so it isn't like if I didn't do the internship I would get no money.
    That was not a comment about you personally. Some people would qualify for JSB but get nothing under JSA. You could have a husband who loses his job, gets JSB until his time runs out, apply for JSA and get nothing because his wife is working. I stated zero practical benefit
    Facilitating fraud. :D
    What else would you call it if a person, whose dole payments are about to run out, applies for a course/internship they don't want and will get zero benefit from and have no intention of learning, or using the skills from, simply to prolong the 200 quid a week payment. That would be dishonest and depriving that place from someone else.
    I seriously cannot reply to your posts anymore. :D:D

    Perhaps because your responses, while set in an argumentative tone, have provided evidence to support some of my points, vis-a-vis benefits of completing an internship vs sitting on your hole and moaning!

    (And no, I'm not saying "your" as in you personally. I would have said "sitting on one's hole" but it doesn't really fit so well in a sentence )


  • #1611
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    I see where youre coming from on this,it gets people out and about,but there are other ways of doing community work,you could just simply go down the normal volunteer route..


    Yes of course they could go the "normal volunteer" route, but you need to get permission from the SW. And you still have to sign on. Having a CE scheme has two obvious benefits

    1) To the worker: It's nicer to be employed than to have to go and queue up to sign on. in most places people will also respect you more if you are an employee than a volunteer. You said you were on a scheme - I'm sure that you preferred not having to go to the SW office every week to stand in a queue?
    2) To the organisation: It give the organisation more stability. Workers will probably be more reliable/happier/more productive if they are made stakeholders in the organisation rather than volunteers. I'd feel more confident if I was a manger, having a core of "workers" to open up the place on the Monday after the weekend than be depending on volunteers who might or might not turn up.


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  • #1612
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    Yore determined to push this travesty. How you fail to see the fault with this scheme is beyond me unless you have a vested interest in it.


  • #1613
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    yore wrote: »
    Yes of course they could go the "normal volunteer" route, but you need to get permission from the SW. And you still have to sign on. Having a CE scheme has two obvious benefits

    1) To the worker: It's nicer to be employed than to have to go and queue up to sign on. in most places people will also respect you more if you are an employee than a volunteer. You said you were on a scheme - I'm sure that you preferred not having to go to the SW office every week to stand in a queue?
    2) To the organisation: It give the organisation more stability. Workers will probably be more reliable/happier/more productive if they are made stakeholders in the organisation rather than volunteers. I'd feel more confident if I was a manger, having a core of "workers" to open up the place on the Monday after the weekend than be depending on volunteers who might or might not turn up.

    It is a relief not having to go down to the dole queue and wait for ages,yeah i will agree on that one,but i have no trouble collecting what im entitled to..

    You make it sound like there are only positives to be gained,when the reality of it is it costs 20 million,and what does it give back?No paid employment, no tax back to our government.Community work has its place,but it shouldnt be allowed to dictate levels of employment,ie decreasing employment,and in fact going as far as to create unemployment..
    Think of all the paid jobs that could have been advertised,but arent,because of these free labour schemes attracting large multinationals to hire and exploit these schemes and turn them into free labour scams?
    I think the bottom line,or what im trying to say is that,if they can afford to hire,they should not be allowed to qualify for these schemes.


  • #1614
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    Born to Die wrote: »
    Yore determined to push this travesty. How you fail to see the fault with this scheme is beyond me unless you have a vested interest in it.

    I never said it is perfect. I have no vested interest in it. I think it's benefits outweigh it's negatives. and I think that, on average, if you wait five years and did a survey of the people who complete the scheme and compare them to ones that stayed on the dole, you'd find that the ones who did the internship did much better.


    What do you think of the IBEC Export oriented programme? It has been running for years and placing graduates in international counties to get experience. The current pay is 1400 Euro a month for the graduate if they are placed within Europe and 1760 if outside. The company contributes an unspecified amount to the government towards this. It has been running since 1983 and is relatively prestigious programme to get on. I know some people who did it and got great jobs out of it. They did it during the "Celtic tiger years" when their mates laughed at them for working for less than half of what they could get in your average job outside. The ones who did it are generally more secure and have better jobs now though!!

    http://www.ibec.ie/Sectors/EOP/EOP.nsf/vPages/About_Us~about-eop?OpenDocument


  • #1615
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    Can't be bothered reading it. I have made up my mind on the matter. I have no more to say at this juncture.


  • #1616
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    Born to Die wrote: »
    Can't be bothered reading it. I have made up my mind on the matter. I have no more to say at this juncture.

    Fair enough. Ignorance is bliss as they say. It might cause you discomfort to realise that such schemes are neither new nor looked down upon. Or to learn that people who complete them go on to benefit from them.

    When I was in college, I knew people who'd make decent money doing standard jobs over the Summer. I also knew a few who got internships over in The City in London, basically being dogsbodys and making tea for others in large firms/banks for what amounted to pocket money.....the interns were the ones to land the plum jobs straight after graduation.


  • #1617
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    yore wrote: »
    What else would you call it if a person, whose dole payments are about to run out, applies for a course/internship they don't want and will get zero benefit from and have no intention of learning, or using the skills from, simply to prolong the 200 quid a week payment. That would be dishonest and depriving that place from someone else.

    And how is that any different from someone working in a 'paid' job for a minimum wage that hates it, doesnt want to be there but does so because it pays the bills and keeps a roof over their heads?

    I am sure you yourself know of people that do jobs they hate because they have to do it to survive.

    You do know, if a company does not think it is working out with an intern, they can end it immediately.

    I really think your above statement is absolutely pointless.

    As someone who has always worked, and had a great lifestyle, and now finds themself struggling to pay a mortgage on social welfare and €50 a week, I can tell you that I would do anything than sit around on my hole to have my old life back without all the worries I do now.

    I will be volunteering when my internship runs out. I already do it with two organisations but am very much looking forward to finishing the horrendous jobbridge internship I signed up for and being able to do a lot more.

    With very few jobs out there actually paying a salary now this scheme is proving so successful, it looks like your taxes will subsidising me for a while yet, yore.


  • #1618
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    ''I never said it is perfect. I have no vested interest in it. I think it's benefits outweigh it's negatives. and I think that, on average, if you wait five years and did a survey of the people who complete the scheme and compare them to ones that stayed on the dole, you'd find that the ones who did the internship did much better.''

    Okay so we can agree you can only see the benefits to this scheme/free jobs scam..

    But to someone who is stuck on welfare,and only sees frustration at every job ad with ce scheme attached to it(instead of a paid job salary attached to it),its not all that positive..

    You say wait five years to see if someone,who had done a 6 - 9 month stint on a free internship,does,if figures for the starting run of jobbridge are anything to go by,it doesnt look good(my guess is they are back on the dole if you look them up in five years)..With the commencement of jobbridge only 400,out of 7000 interns were hired,and they dont say what capacity they were hired..
    And also,If the employability rate(employment after community work)in FAS is anything to go by,it doesnt look good for jobbridge either(not that it does with 400 / 7000 either)..


  • #1619
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    And how is that any different from someone working in a 'paid' job for a minimum wage that hates it, doesnt want to be there but does so because it pays the bills and keeps a roof over their heads?

    I am sure you yourself know of people that do jobs they hate because they have to do it to survive.

    You do know, if a company does not think it is working out with an intern, they can end it immediately.

    I really think your above statement is absolutely pointless.

    As someone who has always worked, and had a great lifestyle, and now finds themself struggling to pay a mortgage on social welfare and €50 a week, I can tell you that I would do anything than sit around on my hole to have my old life back without all the worries I do now.

    I will be volunteering when my internship runs out. I already do it with two organisations but am very much looking forward to finishing the horrendous jobbridge internship I signed up for and being able to do a lot more.

    With very few jobs out there actually paying a salary now this scheme is proving so successful, it looks like your taxes will subsidising me for a while yet, yore.

    my statement isn't pointless. I'm just pointing out that the only reason someone might do one of these schemes if they had no practical benefit from it (be it gaining experience/keeping busy/get out of the house) would be to extend their dole. I'm not saying this is common. I originally said that people would not do it if there was no practical benefit to them, however this is the one case outside of that that I could think of and I included it for completeness. People are doing these schemes. therefore they see benefit in them You are doing one. Therefore you must see some benefit in doing it vs not doing it. you confirmed as much explicitly.

    Again I made similar points to some of your other statements
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78524307&postcount=189

    And I don't pay any (income) taxes :p


  • #1620
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    yore wrote: »
    Fair enough. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

    As a person with 20 years of experience at management level for a multinational corporation I can promise you that there are managers all over this country rubbing their hands with delight at the prospect of filling their manpower and skills requirements with people from these schemes. No impact on overheads, no increased wage bill, no tax/prsi liability, just happier shareholders with increased profits with no outlay.

    All meaning no job creation.

    Goodbye.


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  • #1621
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    yore wrote: »
    my statement isn't pointless. I'm just pointing out that the only reason someone might do one of these schemes if they had no practical benefit from it (be it gaining experience/keeping busy/get out of the house) would be to extend their dole. I'm not saying this is common. I originally said that people would not do it if there was no practical benefit to them, however this is the one case outside of that that I could think of and I included it for completeness. People are doing these schemes. therefore they see benefit in them You are doing one. Therefore you must see some benefit in doing it vs not doing it. you confirmed as much explicitly.

    Again I made similar points to some of your other statements
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78524307&postcount=189

    And I don't pay any (income) taxes :p

    There is benefit to getting out of the house, interacting with society. That doesn't make the scheme right. The scheme is a scam and I hope you or anyone you care about doesn't end up in a sh*tty internship because they see no other way of paying their mortgage/bills.

    Ok, your friends and family are maybe paying for me then :)


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