Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

ShamoBuc · 11-05-2012 04:29PM

Seriously impressed with the jersey - a must buy me thinks!

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 04:49PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What you're actually doing here is undermining Kenny's role in his initial success, by implying it was largley down to Paisley's guidance. That's utter rubbish. It wouldn't matter if he had Bono, the Pope and John F. Kennedy as his advisors. He became Liverpool's player manager and romped home with a league/fa cup double. He was the one calling the shots. If anything, these days it would be easier for a manager to come in, given the huge support network of staff who take care of the players.

A great advisor/no.2 will only get you so far. Case in point, Bobby Robson and Stan. Afterall, in Stan's words, the manager is "the gaffer".

LFC has always eschewed hero worship. The tradition of Kenny and the bootroom has always been that of the collective. We should never look to one man for our silver bullet, and that's what's wrong with all the Rafa brigade. Rafa did a great job for us, but without huge cash he can't compete any more than any other manager (as he himself remarked - see Sappy's post). Where would that leave us? The same old public squabbles as last time (Rick Parry nonsense). And then again washing his dirty linen in public at Inter. Both situations were far from ideal for Rafa but he didn't cover himself in glory with his behaviour.

In my opinion a younger manager who sees the job as a project would be a better option - someone who wants to prove themselves at the top table. Think of the integrity that Guardiola brings to the table with his 1-year contracts. There are young managers out there who could do a job for us.

Of course, another option - given the lack of resources (compared to City & Chelsea) - would be to hire someone who loves the club and would walk over hot coals to take the job, e.g. Sami Hyppia.....or, wait, hang on a minute...why not just keep KENNY DALGLISH!!!

I would class Rafa as young, he's only 52. Which is 21 years younger than the great Trapattoni

People call say Chris Hughton young but he's nearly 54, just the perception of being in shorts or a tracksuit on the touchline rather than a suit might make Rafa appear older. Even Dalglish and O'Neill appear younger than Rafa and both of them are 60 and 61.

Guardiola's one year deals add to uncertainty year in year out from March onwards, there was constant speculation the last couple of years at Barca around this time of year which isn't good.

I do like Hyypia and thought he was an excellent player and leader and always handled himself well even when Houllier took the captaincy from him to give to Gerrard, but I think he needs more than six games to earn himself the Liverpool job.

Jayob10 · 11-05-2012 04:52PM

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

bloke on the .tv forums saying we've tied up a deal for Diamé off Wigan.

would like to see us do some shrewd business on Bosmans this season (if that is indeed possible) if there is not alot of money to spend this summer.

Diame is not a bad option on that front, still young and could act as cover for Lucas.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 04:55PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What you're actually doing here is undermining Kenny's role in his initial success, by implying it was largley down to Paisley's guidance. That's utter rubbish. It wouldn't matter if he had Bono, the Pope and John F. Kennedy as his advisors. He became Liverpool's player manager and romped home with a league/fa cup double. He was the one calling the shots. If anything, these days it would be easier for a manager to come in, given the huge support network of staff who take care of the players.

A great advisor/no.2 will only get you so far. Case in point, Bobby Robson and Stan. Afterall, in Stan's words, the manager is "the gaffer".

LFC has always eschewed hero worship. The tradition of Kenny and the bootroom has always been that of the collective. We should never look to one man for our silver bullet, and that's what's wrong with all the Rafa brigade. Rafa did a great job for us, but without huge cash he can't compete any more than any other manager (as he himself remarked - see Sappy's post). Where would that leave us? The same old public squabbles as last time (Rick Parry nonsense). And then again washing his dirty linen in public at Inter. Both situations were far from ideal for Rafa but he didn't cover himself in glory with his behaviour.

In my opinion a younger manager who sees the job as a project would be a better option - someone who wants to prove themselves at the top table. Think of the integrity that Guardiola brings to the table with his 1-year contracts. There are young managers out there who could do a job for us.

Of course, another option - given the lack of resources (compared to City & Chelsea) - would be to hire someone who loves the club and would walk over hot coals to take the job, e.g. Sami Hyppia.....or, wait, hang on a minute...why not just keep KENNY DALGLISH!!!

No I am not undermining Kenny in any way. I am simply stating what the club did. They put in a young player/manager and brought in our most successful manager to help ease him into the role.

Are you seriousely comparing a well past it Bobby Robson and the hapless Staunton to the Dalglish/Paisley combo? Staunton was so useless as a manager it would not matter who was brought in to help him.

Dalglish on the other hand had plenty of raw managerial talent so having a great like Paisley helping him out allowed Dalglish to reach his potential quicker.

Have no idea why you brought one of your usual rants against Rafa into youyr reply to me when I mentioned nothing about Rafa.

And Liverpool FC have always eschewed hero worship? Really? For decades and decades it has been one of the clubs that has always lauded it's heroes. Shanks did it with many of his players, Bob did it, Joe did it, Kenny did it and so on, and in return the supporters placed those managers on pedestals as well.

Liverpool FC eschews heroes. What a joke of a statement. Better go check out who the gates are named after, whose has a nice big statue in front of the ground, and take a stadium tour and then come back to me and say the club has always eschewed heroes.

Surprised to see you of all people touting Sami for a managerial role, I would have thought that Carragher would be more your speed given some of your past comments about Carragher.

Ganymede Glow · 11-05-2012 04:57PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

would like to see us do some shrewd business on Bosmans this season (if that is indeed possible) if there is not alot of money to spend this summer.

Diame is not a bad option on that front, still young and could act as cover for Lucas.

If for argument's sake he was right and we did sign him that would be great business for him and dont forget he's a free agent. It would mean we could probably get a couple of million for Spearing. It's the kind of business we should be doing, in fact we'd be mad not to. It would also mean we could keep the big money for a striker or winger

Hannibal · 11-05-2012 05:18PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Surprised to see you of all people touting Sami for a managerial role, I would have thought that Carragher would be more your speed given some of your past comments about Carragher.

Looking at how Carragher plays football himself I'd imagine he'd make Jack Charlton look like the visionary who invented the short one touch passing game..

But Carragher for me wears his heart too much, maybe like Graeme Souness or Roy Keane where they can't transform their mentality into the managerial game and let emotions in the way too much because no one can reach their levels of perfection. Even the way he throttled Arbeloa a few years ago is maybe a sign that he's more of a Phil Thompson and suited to the number 2

Jayob10 · 11-05-2012 05:35PM

With this talk of Diame on a bosman, here are a few more names of players who are available on a free. Obviously our record of signing free agents has been poor in recent years, but i'd like to think we could sign a Gary Mac from somewhere on this list :

(edit- some of these players may have signed new deals since this was posted)

Keepers
Andres Palop, Rene Adler, Timo Hildebrand, Tim Wiese, Craig Gordon, Mark Schwartzer, Carlo Cudicini, Heurelho Gomes

Defenders
Hedwiges Maduro, Eric Adibal, Luis Perea, Christian Chivu, Danijel Pranjic, Khalid Boulahrouz, Carlos Cuellar, Maynor Figueroa

Midfielders
Flamini, Seedorf, Van Bommel, Tranquillo Barnetta, Jefferson Farfan, Tim Borowski, Mohamed Diame, Royston Drenthe, Marcos Senna, Ederson

Strikers
Ivica Olic, Luca Toni, Raul, Pavel Pogrebnyak, Didier Drogba, Dimitar Berbatov, Hugo Rodellega, Cristian Tello, Salomon Kalou,

G.K. · 11-05-2012 05:43PM

How old is Barnetta now?

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 05:44PM

G.K. wrote: »

How old is Barnetta now?

26 (27 later this month)

Was surprised when I saw that tbh as I thought he was older.

Knex* · 11-05-2012 05:44PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Looking at how Carragher plays football himself I'd imagine he'd make Jack Charlton look like the visionary who invented the short one touch passing game..

But Carragher for me wears his heart too much, maybe like Graeme Souness or Roy Keane where they can't transform their mentality into the managerial game and let emotions in the way too much because no one can reach their levels of perfection. Even the way he throttled Arbeloa a few years ago is maybe a sign that he's more of a Phil Thompson and suited to the number 2

The latter part I'd definitely agree with, but not so much with the first paragraph. I do think Carragher is a man who knows his limitations on the football pitch, and the limitations of others.
I'd be surprised if he didn't try and get players to pass the ball and play a some what decent style of football, albeit a rigid one I'll grant you that.

From what people have said about him he seems to be a walking encyclepedia on footballaing matters and so his knowledge of the game,and understanding of it I would argue is pretty good.

Also, I don't think he has poor footballing intelligence, when he gets caught out its usually because of his pace or height. Granted, he's nowhere near Hyppia's level in that regard, but he's not poor by any means. (I know you weren't saying he was, but felt I'd mention it anyway)

That said, although I'd be interested in seeing him as a manager, just wouldn't be keen seeing him in the dugout for Liverpool, certainly not as his first job.

But in a hypotethical contest between Gerrard (another name people seem to tout) and Carragher for an emergency manager, Carra wins hands down for me.

Jayob10 · 11-05-2012 05:45PM

G.K. wrote: »

How old is Barnetta now?

Only 26

Interestingly, Rene Adler is available on a free aswell.

Will be a great Bosman signing for some club who needs an excellent goalkeeper

Knex* · 11-05-2012 05:50PM

Please tell me Farfan is not one the players to sign a new deal? Would be quite happy if we could snap him up on a free tbh.

Figueroa is another one who would be decent back up for the left back spot.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 05:50PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

With this talk of Diame on a bosman, here are a few more names of players who are available on a free. Obviously our record of signing free agents has been poor in recent years, but i'd like to think we could sign a Gary Mac from somewhere on this list :

(edit- some of these players may have signed new deals since this was posted)

Keepers
Andres Palop, Rene Adler, Timo Hildebrand, Tim Wiese, Craig Gordon, Mark Schwartzer, Carlo Cudicini, Heurelho Gomes

Defenders
Hedwiges Maduro, Eric Adibal, Luis Perea, Christian Chivu, Danijel Pranjic, Khalid Boulahrouz, Carlos Cuellar, Maynor Figueroa

Midfielders
Flamini, Seedorf, Van Bommel, Tranquillo Barnetta, Jefferson Farfan, Tim Borowski, Mohamed Diame, Royston Drenthe, Marcos Senna, Ederson

Strikers
Ivica Olic, Luca Toni, Raul, Pavel Pogrebnyak, Didier Drogba, Dimitar Berbatov, Hugo Rodellega, Cristian Tello, Salomon Kalou,

Hoilett would be the out of contract player I would hope we go after.

Kess73 · 11-05-2012 05:51PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

Only 26

Interestingly, Rene Adler is available on a free aswell.

Will be a great Bosman signing for some club who needs an excellent goalkeeper

Yeah class keeper and still has plenty of years left in his career.

Jayob10 · 11-05-2012 05:58PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Hoilett would be the out of contract player I would hope we go after.

Any of those keepers would be decent cover (barring Adler who will be first choice for someone), if we got a decent fee for Doni/Jones.

Figueroa would be excellent cover at left back aswell

Barnetta or Farfan are not to be scoffed on a free either, Flamini would be good cover for Lucas and capable of playing alongside him too.

I'd take Tello but I imagine he will sign a new deal.

Just interesting to see whats available on a free, some signings out there that can act as good cover. For instance, we spent 2.5m, 2.8m and 3.5m on reserve keepers in the past few years (Doni, Jones and Cavalleri) which seems like money down the drain really.

Jayob10 · 11-05-2012 06:00PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah class keeper and still has plenty of years left in his career.

Reina turns 30 in August

Adler turned 27 in January :eek:

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 06:00PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

With this talk of Diame on a bosman, here are a few more names of players who are available on a free. Obviously our record of signing free agents has been poor in recent years, but i'd like to think we could sign a Gary Mac from somewhere on this list :

(edit- some of these players may have signed new deals since this was posted)

Keepers
Andres Palop, Rene Adler, Timo Hildebrand, Tim Wiese, Craig Gordon, Mark Schwartzer, Carlo Cudicini, Heurelho Gomes

Defenders
Hedwiges Maduro, Eric Adibal, Luis Perea, Christian Chivu, Danijel Pranjic, Khalid Boulahrouz, Carlos Cuellar, Maynor Figueroa

Midfielders
Flamini, Seedorf, Van Bommel, Tranquillo Barnetta, Jefferson Farfan, Tim Borowski, Mohamed Diame, Royston Drenthe, Marcos Senna, Ederson

Strikers
Ivica Olic, Luca Toni, Raul, Pavel Pogrebnyak, Didier Drogba, Dimitar Berbatov, Hugo Rodellega, Cristian Tello, Salomon Kalou,

Adler, Flamini, Diame, Drenthe, Rodellega and Kalou from that list along with Aqua back and Reina and dead wood shipped out and I'd be happy to go into next season. Seriously.

Jayob10 · 11-05-2012 06:02PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Adler, Diame, Drenthe, Rodellega and Kalou from that list along with Aqua back and Reina and dead wood shipped out and I'd be happy to go into next season. Seriously.

Unless we were shipping out Reina and making Adler first choice, not a hope of him being number 2.

Ok hypothetical question.

Say funds were scarce this summer and we needed to sell to buy, what would fans make of a move to sell Reina (albeit for a huge offer) and replace him with Adler on a bosman? In order to distribute funds elsewhere in the squad

LuckyLloyd · 11-05-2012 06:05PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Adler, Diame, Drenthe, Rodellega and Kalou from that list along with Aqua back and Reina and dead wood shipped out and I'd be happy to go into next season. Seriously.

Unless we were shipping out Reina and making Adler first choice, not a hope of him being number 2.

Ok hypothetical question.

Say funds were scarce this summer and we needed to sell to buy, what would fans make of a move to sell Reina (albeit for a huge offer) and replace him with Adler on a bosman? In order to distribute funds elsewhere in the squad

Well I'd be on board, though he won't fetch a huge fee...

El Inho · 11-05-2012 06:06PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

Unless we were shipping out Reina and making Adler first choice, not a hope of him being number 2.

Ok hypothetical question.

Say funds were scarce this summer and we needed to sell to buy, what would fans make of a move to sell Reina (albeit for a huge offer) and replace him with Adler on a bosman? In order to distribute funds elsewhere in the squad

cant undervalue his iconic status and influence in the dressing room too...he's not just a solid pair of hands between the sticks, he's deputy vice captain thingy

willmunny1990 · 11-05-2012 06:07PM

El Spearo wrote: »

cant undervalue his iconic status and influence in the dressing room too...he's not just a solid pair of hands between the sticks, he's deputy vice captain thingy

But he isn't a solid pair of hands between the sticks and hasn't been for years now.

Jayob10 · 11-05-2012 06:10PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well I'd be on board, though he won't fetch a huge fee...

The ship may have sailed for him in terms of signing for any of the big clubs in England or Spain. Saying that, Malaga have the spending power.

But the Italian clubs may still have their eye on him, Milan or Inter particularly.

cson · 11-05-2012 06:16PM

Didn't we [Arsenal] offer you something like £20m for Reina 2 seasons ago? I think we were in for Alonso too when you were mad to get rid of him for Barry.

Phoenix Park · 11-05-2012 06:26PM

willmunny1990 wrote: »

But he isn't a solid pair of hands between the sticks and hasn't been for years now.

SLIGHT exaggeration there Willy

Jesus Wept · 11-05-2012 06:27PM

There are no free players.

willmunny1990 · 11-05-2012 06:27PM

Phoenix Park wrote: »

SLIGHT exaggeration there Willy

I dunno, dont think he's been great for 2/3 years now. Too many mistakes per season.

Paully D · 11-05-2012 06:34PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Adler, Flamini, Diame, Drenthe, Rodellega and Kalou from that list along with Aqua back and Reina and dead wood shipped out and I'd be happy to go into next season. Seriously.

Diame, whilst being a good player, is nowhere near good enough for a club that will be aiming for the top 4/definitely aiming for Europa League. Mid-table player.

Rodellega is toilet and would struggle to score 10 goals a season if he played every week.

I like Flamini but he's a sicknote and hasn't played at all in 2011-2012.

Drenthe is absolute poison in a dressing room and would be a huge risk.

Adler has signed a 5 year deal with Hamburg.

Kalou would be a good signing.

Maybe this season has just sucked the life out of many Liverpool fans but nearly all of those players you have listed wouldn't help you at all IMO. Got to aim for better.

missingtime · 11-05-2012 06:36PM

Andy Carroll wrote: »

There are no free players.

Exactly.

Wouldn't have Kalou near the club to be honest. He has paycheck written all over him.

Jesus Wept · 11-05-2012 06:37PM

Also the reason most of these people are free is a combination or one of the following:

Their club want rid
They ran down their contract so they could get a move where they double their wages.

They should generally be avoided, danger zone.

Sappy404 · 11-05-2012 06:44PM

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Also the reason most of these people are free is a combination or one of the following:
Their club want rid

They ran down their contract so they could get a move where they double their wages.

They should generally be avoided, danger zone.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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