Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Kess73 · 26-04-2012 04:17PM

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

I didn't say we should sign Alaba. I said someone like him :rolleyes:

You are right that we should be looking at quality young players that are good enough to have an impact on the first team as they are now, but who also have the potential to get a lot better in the future. The last few seasons have had lots of examples of such talents moving to not so big clubs for not so big prices.

Liverpool unfortunately seemed to have a preference during that time for either getting in washed up English talent on huge wages or vastly overrated English talent for huge prices.And the end result is that we still need to bring in quality players for the very positions that we have spent massive money in terms of transfer fees and wages on.

People might say that the foreign talents could just as easily had bad seasons, and I would say that anyone who argued that point would be right.

Arda Turan could have been bought and he could have been just as ineffective as Downing. But he would have cost less than half of what Downing cost, so at least we would not have spent huge money on an ineffective player. (I do believe that Turan would have done better than Downing btw)

Moussa Sow could have been bought and could have had as poor a goal tally as Andy Carroll. But Sow would have cost less that a third of Andy Carroll's fee so the amount spent on someone who was poor for most of the season would have been less.

Defour could have been bought and could have been generally as ineffective as Henderson, but at somewhere between a third and a quarter of the price it cost to get Henderson, at least the money lost would not be as bad.

Basically for less the the price of Andy Carroll we could have gotten all three and had the Downing and Henderson fees still available for other players. We simply did not get value for money and ended up with players that people are hoping turn good rather than players whose overall performances suggest they will turn good and come even slightly close to being value for money.

Sappy404 · 26-04-2012 04:18PM

amiable wrote: »

Tony Barrett says Liverpool FC to be the subject of a six-part fly on the wall documentary series made by Fox Sports

We need to get Jimmy Fallon to make a movie about an obsessed Liverpool fan like he did for the Red Sox in Fever Pitch. They won their first World Series in 86 years while filming.

Hannibal · 26-04-2012 04:21PM

Kess73 wrote: »

You are right that we should be looking at quality young players that are good enough to have an impact on the first team as they are now, but who also have the potential to get a lot better in the future. The last few seasons have had lots of examples of such talents moving to not so big clubs for not so big prices.

Liverpool unfortunately seemed to have a preference during that time for either getting in washed up English talent on huge wages or vastly overrated English talent for huge prices.And the end result is that we still need to bring in quality players for the very positions that we have spent massive money in terms of transfer fees and wages on.

People might say that the foreign talents could just as easily had bad seasons, and I would say that anyone who argued that point would be right.

Arda Turan could have been bought and he could have been just as ineffective as Downing. But he would have cost less than half of what Downing cost, so at least we would not have spent huge money on an ineffective player. (I do believe that Turan would have done better than Downing btw)

Moussa Sow could have been bought and could have had as poor a goal tally as Andy Carroll. But Sow would have cost less that a third of Andy Carroll's fee so the amount spent on someone who was poor for most of the season would have been less.

Defour could have been bought and could have been generally as ineffective as Henderson, but at somewhere between a third and a quarter of the price it cost to get Henderson, at least the money lost would not be as bad.

Basically for less the the price of Andy Carroll we could have gotten all three and had the Downing and Henderson fees still available for other players. We simply did not get value for money and ended up with players that people are hoping turn good rather than players whose overall performances suggest they will turn good and come even slightly close to being value for money.

see if we bought these foreign players and they turned out to be as ineffective as the British players, then people would have been saying the European players aren't upto the EPL and we should have bought players like Henderson, Downing and Adam.

Kess73 · 26-04-2012 04:25PM

Dotsey wrote: »

see if we bought these foreign players and they turned out to be as ineffective as the British players, then people would have been saying the European players aren't upto the EPL and we should have bought players like Henderson, Downing and Adam.

True, but we would still have the bones of £40m to try again with if all three foreign players flopped or underperformed.

opr · 26-04-2012 04:38PM

amiable wrote: »

Tony Barrett says Liverpool FC to be the subject of a six-part fly on the wall documentary series made by Fox Sports

K-9 wrote: »

Would have been interesting this season!

It's going to start at the tail end of this season!

Working directly with Liverpool's ownership and management, FOX Soccer has gained exclusive and unprecedented access to one of the most influential clubs in global sport - including taking cameras inside the Anfield and Melwood dressing rooms to show fans the players and manager at work. 'Our Liverpool: Never Walk Alone' will begin deep inside the club at the tail end of the 2011-2012 campaign, a rollercoaster season that could end with the club adding an eighth FA Cup trophy at Wembley in May to the eighth League Cup that was won at the same venue in February.

Episodes continue through the club's July tour of North America, with FOX Soccer's production crew following the team on and off the field as Liverpool prepare for the new Barclays Premier League season and contest the first few matches of its 2012-2013 campaign. Throughout this journey, Liverpool's unique traditions will be highlighted, along with the club's unparalleled history, and its heartfelt place in the fabric of the local community.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/lfc-to-star-in-tv-world-first

Opr

daithijjj · 26-04-2012 04:39PM

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/binary/2012/04/26/LFC_Never_Walk_Alone1335450766652.pdf

djPSB · 26-04-2012 04:40PM

opr wrote: »

Said it before but the problem I have with Sigurdsson is that unless we have a huge amount of money to spend in the summer I would like the focus elsewhere. I would be buying a central midfielder, striker and winger before I even looked at the another player for the CAM type role.

Opr

Sell Adam, buy Sigurdsson.

Kess73 · 26-04-2012 04:56PM

djPSB wrote: »

Sell Adam, buy Sigurdsson.

Sell Adam and Henderson. Put money got towards getting Sigurdsson and Banega/Sissoko/M'Vila/Belhanda:D

hefferboi · 26-04-2012 05:09PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Sell Adam and Henderson. Put money got towards getting Sigurdsson and Banega/Sissoko/M'Vila/Belhanda:D

redzerdrog · 26-04-2012 05:11PM

I would sell adam in a heartbeat but can not advocate selling henderson dont ask me why but I see enough in him and believe he will turn out to be a success for us he has something about him and he will only learn from this years experience

daithijjj · 26-04-2012 05:11PM

HaveIGotNewsForYou ‏ @bbcHIGNFY Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
At #Leveson Rupert Murdoch predicted an end to newspapers. Tired, out-of-date, and doomed to "shrivel and die" in a decade, Murdoch is 81.

djPSB · 26-04-2012 05:12PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Sell Adam and Henderson. Put money got towards getting Sigurdsson and Banega/Sissoko/M'Vila/Belhanda:D

We would do well to but them for £12m

Strongbow10 · 26-04-2012 05:13PM

opr wrote: »

It's going to start at the tail end of this season!

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/lfc-to-star-in-tv-world-first

Opr

Is this "the liverpool way" ???? :cool:

missingtime · 26-04-2012 05:13PM

That picture has been posted so many times in this thread, I'm surprised Randy has any left.

djPSB · 26-04-2012 05:13PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

I would sell adam in a heartbeat but can not advocate selling henderson dont ask me why but I see enough in him and believe he will turn out to be a success for us he has something about him and he will only learn from this years experience

I agree. Henderson is showing signs of promise. Adam not so much.

Kess73 · 26-04-2012 05:15PM

djPSB wrote: »

We would do well to but them for £12m

Hence me saying put the money towards getting two of those players rather than getting them for whatever Henderson and Adam would fetch on the market now.

Sir Gallagher · 26-04-2012 05:19PM

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

I didn't say we should sign Alaba. I said someone like him :rolleyes:

Apologies, i read it wrong.

opr wrote: »

It's going to start at the tail end of this season!

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/lfc-to-star-in-tv-world-first

Opr

This is the last thing we need at the moment.

D'Agger · 26-04-2012 05:21PM

Hendersons a player I like and a player who I think will continue to develop - he has the right attitude, he has nice touches and he plays a style of football I like.

He hasn't set the world alight but I think in the middle against West Brom last week he showed what he's about and I'd like to see more of it in the future.

Nuri Sahin · 26-04-2012 05:31PM

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

I didn't say we should sign Alaba. I said someone like him :rolleyes:

Apolgises, I misread your comment. My point still stands though, most definitely in regards to Bayern anyway. If you're talking about the Bundesliga in the main.
Well Dortmund, tbf, I think anyone who leaves there at this moment in time is quite stupid and I think lessons have been learned to an extent when you look at Sahin. Sahin is immensely talented, someone who'd I'd gladly have here at Liverpool and would walk into the majority of squads starting XI around. I do have a bad feeling Kagawa might be on his way out though, and these rumors with Man U sadden/worry me.

The rest of clubs, we have a good chance of doing some business with like any other club, and I'd be here all day talking up the talent in Bundesliga. For similar players in age and ability to Alaba, it's hard to say honestly. As I said, comparisons are being made with Lizarazu which says it all One of the best full backs I've seen in my lifetime and a Bayern and French legend.

2 youth players from the Ruhr area that I've seen a fair bit and could make it big in a couple of years time are Draxler and Holtby, both very talented midfielders at Schalke. If they continue on their progression, they will make it into the German senior team for WC2014 I believe.

Kess73 · 26-04-2012 05:31PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

I would sell adam in a heartbeat but can not advocate selling henderson dont ask me why but I see enough in him and believe he will turn out to be a success for us he has something about him and he will only learn from this years experience

I don't doubt that Henderson has potential, but he is some distance behind similar aged players like Belhanda, Sigurdsson, M'Vila, Sissoko etc in pretty much every department, They are the types that I would regard as young players with top class potential. Henderson does not come close to any of them in my eyes yet he seems to be painted as top class potential on a regular basis.

He has the potential to be a decent player imho, and if he stays at Liverpool then I hope he goes on to be even better than that. But when one looks around Europe and see how many players who play in similar positions to Henderson who look head and shoulders above him, then one really has to wonder why we paid something between £16m and £20m for Henderson and ignored talent that looks some distance ahead of Henderson in every department.

I look at the four players I named and cannot see one thing that Henderson can beat any of them at in terms of being a midfielder or an attacking midfielder. Yes Henderson may improve in time, but all of those I named would be expected to continue to improve as well.

And the one damning thing against Henderson imho compared to those four is that anytime those four went up a level in terms of what they were being played against, they were able to step up, improve, and impose their own respective games on the higher level. Henderson has not shown this quality and seems to need to go down to U-21 level for England to shine.

Now I would not be as quick to sell Henderson as my flippant comment earlier regarding him and Adam suggests, but I don't see him ever becoming a player that warranted the fee we paid for him. Hope I am very wrong, but he just does not seem to have that bit about him that genuine quality players seem to have by his age, and by genuine quality I am not talking about the Messi or Ronaldo types as those guys are world class and a level above everyone else, I am talking about how the Banega level players looked at 21. Banega at 21 (and he is only 23 now) looked a real talent and looked far superior to Henderson, and was well able to impose his game onto senior players.

I feel that for the money spent we should have been looking to get a Banega/Belhanda/Sissoko etc etc level young player, not a player that would have been lucky to cost 5m or 6m if his passport said he was from France.

Kess73 · 26-04-2012 05:41PM

-Ade- wrote: »

Apolgises, I misread your comment. My point still stands though, most definitely in regards to Bayern anyway. If you're talking about the Bundesliga in the main.
Well Dortmund, tbf, I think anyone who leaves there at this moment in time is quite stupid and I think lessons have been learned to an extent when you look at Sahin. Sahin is immensely talented, someone who'd I'd gladly have here at Liverpool and would walk into the majority of squads starting XI around.

The rest of clubs, we have a good chance of doing some business with like any other club, and I'd be here all day talking up the talent in Bundesliga. For similar players in age and ability to Alaba, it's hard to say honestly. As I said, comparisons are being made with Lizarazu which says it all One of the best full backs I've seen in my lifetime and a Bayern and French legend.

2 youth players from the Ruhr area that I've seen a fair bit and could make it big in a couple of years time are Draxler and Holtby, both very talented midfielders at Schalke. If they continue on their progression, they will make it into the German senior team for WC2014 I believe.

Dortmund are a team that I would love to be able to poach young players from, but unless something dramatic and totally unrealistic happens behind the scenes there we can forget about their talent given how the last couple of seasons have gone for them .

Draxler and Holtby are two very very good shouts. The former just looks to have such a promising career ahead of him, and at times it is very easy to forget that he is only 18.

Moritz at Schalke looks interesting as well, and reads the game very well.

Draxler and Rosenborg's Markus Henriksen are two very young players that I think have massive careers ahead of them and are exactly the type of young potential that we should at the very least be trying to get in.

Sir Gallagher · 26-04-2012 05:48PM

Kess73 wrote: »

I don't doubt that Henderson has potential, but he is some distance behind similar aged players like Belhanda, Sigurdsson, M'Vila, Sissoko etc in pretty much every department, They are the types that I would regard as young players with top class potential. Henderson does not come close to any of them in my eyes yet he seems to be painted as top class potential on a regular basis.

He has the potential to be a decent player imho, and if he stays at Liverpool then I hope he goes on to be even better than that. But when one looks around Europe and see how many players who play in similar positions to Henderson who look head and shoulders above him, then one really has to wonder why we paid something between £16m and £20m for Henderson and ignored talent that looks some distance ahead of Henderson in every department.

I look at the four players I named and cannot see one thing that Henderson can beat any of them at in terms of being a midfielder or an attacking midfielder. Yes Henderson may improve in time, but all of those I named would be expected to continue to improve as well.

And the one damning thing against Henderson imho compared to those four is that anytime those four went up a level in terms of what they were being played against, they were able to step up, improve, and impose their own respective games on the higher level. Henderson has not shown this quality and seems to need to go down to U-21 level for England to shine.

Now I would not be as quick to sell Henderson as my flippant comment earlier regarding him and Adam suggests, but I don't see him ever becoming a player that warranted the fee we paid for him. Hope I am very wrong, but he just does not seem to have that bit about him that genuine quality players seem to have by his age, and by genuine quality I am not talking about the Messi or Ronaldo types as those guys are world class and a level above everyone else, I am talking about how the Banega level players looked at 21. Banega at 21 (and he is only 23 now) looked a real talent and looked far superior to Henderson, and was well able to impose his game onto senior players.

I feel that for the money spent we should have been looking to get a Banega/Belhanda/Sissoko etc etc level young player, not a player that would have been lucky to cost 5m or 6m if his passport said he was from France.

Yeah but Henderson has that British heart and fighting spirit! :rolleyes:

An opinion which i noticed(to my dismay) John Barnes giving after the FA Cup semi-final.

Kess73 · 26-04-2012 05:52PM

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Yeah but Henderson has that British heart and fighting spirit! :rolleyes:

An opinion which i noticed(to my dismay) John Barnes giving after the FA Cup semi-final.

Did not know Barnesy said that. But given the amount of common sense that Digger said this season alone, I will forgive him the odd jingoistic comment.

Vanolder · 26-04-2012 05:59PM

Steven Gerrard is promoting his book about his time at Liverpool on the late late tomorrow. It has no title!

5starpool · 26-04-2012 06:01PM

Vanolder wrote: »

Steven Gerrard is promoting his book about his time at Liverpool on the late late tomorrow. It has no title!

Aren't you clever? Well done.

hefferboi · 26-04-2012 06:09PM

5starpool wrote: »

Aren't you clever? Well done.

It has 2 fa cups, 3 league cups, a uefa cup and a champions league though.

Zapp Brannigan · 26-04-2012 06:14PM

All this debate about Henderson. The only good thing I see in him is he has an engine. A terrific engine, but seemingly he has no intelligence to go along with it. I hope he comes good, I really do, but I think we'll have to suffer through another while of mediocrity from him.

Ganymede Glow · 26-04-2012 06:24PM

Liverpool may have moved a step closer to signing Uruguayan star Gaston Ramirez after his agent revealed they have received a bid from an un-named Premier League team for the Bologna midfielder.Ramirez has been one of the star performers for his club side in Serie A and has been attracting interest from Kenny Dalglish.

The Liverpool manager is set to make a number of changes during the summer and has been strongly tipped to make a move for the 21-year-old.
According to Italian TV station TMW, Ramirez' agent Pablo Bentancur has confirmed that a Premier League club have made an offer for his client and a decision will be made at the end of the season. Bentancur said: "Bologna have received an offer near to 20 million Euros from an important club in the Premier League. "Bologna will decide at the end of the season what they are going to do."

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/120426/liverpool-close-bologna-midfielder-170750

D'Agger · 26-04-2012 06:30PM

If Lucas has taught me anything it's to give players time - while he was uprooted from Brazil and thrust into a different league and style of play, Henderson is still young and imo a talented player.

I genuinely think he's already quite a good player from what I've seen and I do think LFC fans are expecting a bit too much of him already - ffs, only the other day we were talking about how too much was expected of Insua too soon and how he's now developed into a good LB now- Henderson has a bigger price tag and the hype the English media placed on him last year - this isn't his doing and yet we expect him to be the finished product in his first season for the club.

redzerdrog · 26-04-2012 06:33PM

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Liverpool may have moved a step closer to signing Uruguayan star Gaston Ramirez after his agent revealed they have received a bid from an un-named Premier League team for the Bologna midfielder.Ramirez has been one of the star performers for his club side in Serie A and has been attracting interest from Kenny Dalglish.

The Liverpool manager is set to make a number of changes during the summer and has been strongly tipped to make a move for the 21-year-old.
According to Italian TV station TMW, Ramirez' agent Pablo Bentancur has confirmed that a Premier League club have made an offer for his client and a decision will be made at the end of the season. Bentancur said: "Bologna have received an offer near to 20 million Euros from an important club in the Premier League. "Bologna will decide at the end of the season what they are going to do."

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/120426/liverpool-close-bologna-midfielder-170750

I cant say i know a whole lot about him but I think he is another attacking midfielder (although think he might also play on the left) we were linked with him around jan i think.

I think it might a mixture of his agent trying to drum up interest and journos putting 2 and 2 together because he is looking to leave and we like signing Uruguayans:pac:

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Comments