Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Sir Gallagher · 23-04-2012 03:06AM

Why is it all of a sudden the league is not a priorty? Even when Rafa was in charge and we were running amok in Europe what we always wanted was the league. Yes, we're not the same team anymore but fcking hell this is some awful stuff.

We're being beaten on our own turf by jokeshop teams and people are still making excuses? It's embarrasing. I have to say, Kenny is getting away with murder.

Glico Man · 23-04-2012 03:52AM

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Why is it all of a sudden the league is not a priorty? Even when Rafa was in charge and we were running amok in Europe what we always wanted was the league. Yes, we're not the same team anymore but fcking hell this is some awful stuff.

We're being beaten on our own turf by jokeshop teams and people are still making excuses? It's embarrasing. I have to say, Kenny is getting away with murder.

I think I heard earlier that it was the 12th game out of 17 at home we've failed to win. That in itself is an absolute disgrace, but add to that our terrible since January, our drop down the table and the massive point deficit from our target for the season and its nothing short of a disaster.

Cup runs (as wonderful as they are) aside, this season has been a major disaster and one where we've gone backwards if anything.

woodyg · 23-04-2012 04:17AM

cup runs as good as they have been are just patching over the grand canyon of cracks that's been the relegation form collapse of a season in the league.
the league is the be all and end all simple as.

top 4 was the goal this season no matter what line is rolled out by the club.
it's been a real hard 6 months of football to watch as the team has struggled for form and direction, yes there's been injuries to big players and suspensions to add to it but that's no excuse for the drudge that's been played especially at home every team looses players through out the year that's why they have squads of 24 players.

a big call needs to be made in May either back Kenny and get some serious players in or clean house completely Kenny staff and Players.

the club is in serious danger of being left behind the pack and never getting back towards the promised land. No one expected a title challenge this year but no one can accept the league form that's been given.

NukaCola · 23-04-2012 08:30AM

I wouldnt trust Kenny with any amount of money tbh. I was always of the opinion that he should get another season, but you cant excuse the league performance this season. Its not good enough no matter how you look at it.

careca · 23-04-2012 09:08AM

Carroll hasn't been up to it for most of the season but I think he was been pretty decent in the last 4/5 matches. The quality of the ball into him yesterday was shocking. The amount of times the ball from Enrique/Kuyt/Johnson didn't beat the first defender was unreal.

I thought Kenny should have given young Eccleston a decent run in the team for the last 5/6 games and see what he is like. He did ok when coming on recently for the last 15 mins. I would have said to him, you are going to be playing every league game until the end of the season - go show me what you can do. But no, we stick the tried and (un)trusted.

DDC1990 · 23-04-2012 09:24AM

Look TBH, I would give Kenny the money to go buy a World Class striker.

Not a young, English striker. Not a great goal scorer in the French/Dutch leagues.

We need a guy who has proven time and time again he can put the ball in the back of the net.

Its easy to say we have been beaten by rubbish teams and Kenny is ****e, but when you look at all those games, we were just a quality finisher away from 4-1 or 5-1 wins, a la yesterdays game.

Suarez is a brilliant player but he is not a finisher. You get away with that in the Dutch league, because defenders/goalkeepers are not of the same standard as they are here. If we get a guy who will bang the ball in the net, like Torres used to do for us, then i'd imagine that we would be challenging for 4th next year, possibly even higher.

The core of this team has been ding well for the majority of games this year, we've just been rubbish up front.

Just my opinion.

LuckyLloyd · 23-04-2012 09:31AM

What more do you want from yesterday's game?

- dominate possession and control tempo and territory? Check.
- be positive? Check.
- create chances? Check.
- limit the opposition's attempts on our goal? Check.

After that folks, you just need the ball to go in. You also need a bit of fortune in that your one glaring defensive error isn't punished.

Yesterday's performance didn't upset me. I don't see how the game really changed anything tbh.

23-04-2012 09:36AM

DDC1990 wrote: »

Look TBH, I would give Kenny the money to go buy a World Class striker.

Not a young, English striker. Not a great goal scorer in the French/Dutch leagues.

We need a guy who has proven time and time again he can put the ball in the back of the net.

Its easy to say we have been beaten by rubbish teams and Kenny is ****e, but when you look at all those games, we were just a quality finisher away from 4-1 or 5-1 wins, a la yesterdays game.

Suarez is a brilliant player but he is not a finisher. You get away with that in the Dutch league, because defenders/goalkeepers are not of the same standard as they are here. If we get a guy who will bang the ball in the net, like Torres used to do for us, then i'd imagine that we would be challenging for 4th next year, possibly even higher.

The core of this team has been ding well for the majority of games this year, we've just been rubbish up front.

Just my opinion.

you'd swear great strikers were a dime a dozen.

Of the top scoring strikers in recent years it's probably only one or two that cost less than 20m odd and for nearly everyone of them there's another that flops.

The club would also have to be in a worse situation than Liverpool and I can't think off too many off the top of my head of what you would call a proven world class striker in that
situation...

Kolido · 23-04-2012 09:43AM

Wish I shared the optimism of some of my fellow Liverpool fans here. I would agree that we play some good football at times but this is not exibition its competitive. Results matter and I'm afraid we need more than good luck and a sriker.
Kenny has been here year and a half now and as far as results go, we haven't moved forward in that time.
I don't think any fan will be happy as a good cup team, we need league success and CL football.

Morzadec · 23-04-2012 09:52AM

Gbear wrote: »

Carroll has shown nothing to suggest that he can be the kind of consistant goalscorer we require.

We can either buy about 5 players that would improve on all the other places in our squad (Downing, Henderson, Spearing, Maxi, Kuyt) and combined that might give us enough in attack.

Or we can buy 1 striker - say Roberto Soldado - who can finish his breakfast.

Something like

***********
(Our current back 5)

Henderson - Lucas - Gerrard

New AM - Soldado - Suarez
************

would actually be feasible.

Getting half a new squad just to make chances so easy that even Carroll can't miss them is not.

I really think it's as easy as that. i.e. our problems aren't that deep-lying. We NEED a goalscorer. The wrongs can be improved upon. Maybe another centre-mid could be added but with Henderson coming on a bit next year hopefully, and Lucas back it's not as pressing. We have dominated the majority of games in midfield, I think the likes of Spearing are getting too much stick. It's not up to him to put the ball in the net. The back line is fine so long as Agger stays fit. Again, perhaps we might look at bringing in a Centre-back but it's not a priority.

I really hope we don't cast our net too wide this summer, making 5 or 6 mediocre signings. Spend big on a goalscorer first and foremost and then if we have money for others we can look about improving these areas.

For me this one area has been the number one problem all year. We've seen countless matches like the one against WBA this year where we have been the 'better' side.

Put in a top class striker and we're already looking at at least about 10 -15 points extra imo

Morzadec · 23-04-2012 09:57AM

Another thing - we need to be a lot smarter in the transfer market. We don't necessarily need a massive budget. In the summer Atletí got Adrían on a free and Diego on loan - we're talking about an exciting winger/forward that can beat a man and score and set-up goals, and is a cut or two above anything we have, and a playmaker of extraordinary class and quality, more comfortable on the ball than anyone we have.

Meanwhile we spent £36m on Downing and Henderson.

missingtime · 23-04-2012 10:03AM

I definitely think Henderson and Suarez need to play together more. Once Henderson plays in the midfield of course.

I've seen them link up quite nicely a few times.

whatawaster · 23-04-2012 10:04AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What more do you want from yesterday's game?

- dominate possession and control tempo and territory? Check.
- be positive? Check.
- create chances? Check.
- limit the opposition's attempts on our goal? Check.

After that folks, you just need the ball to go in. You also need a bit of fortune in that your one glaring defensive error isn't punished.

Yesterday's performance didn't upset me. I don't see how the game really changed anything tbh.

Is football not about winning anymore?

We are on course for our worst season since the Pl began and have shown ourselves to be consistently unable to win matches

Scoring goals isnt luck.

DDC1990 · 23-04-2012 10:07AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Is football not about winning anymore?

We are on course for our worst season since the Pl began and have shown ourselves to be consistently unable to win matches

Scoring goals isnt luck.

Yes but its not the managers job to put the ball in the net either as some are suggesting.

Kenny has been poor in the transfer market, but we wouldn't be talking about that if we had one good striker to put the ball in the net.

A guy like Drogba or Tevez would have improved our season no end.

LuckyLloyd · 23-04-2012 10:14AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Is football not about winning anymore?

We are on course for our worst season since the Pl began and have shown ourselves to be consistently unable to win matches

Scoring goals isnt luck.

Kenny can't throw a jersey on and stick it in the net himself anymore (more's the pity). He set the team up well, they played West Brom off the park and, somehow, lost.

As a fan, I will get angry if players aren't trying; if they lose all their battles and are second best on the pitch. But if they're unlucky? Nobody to blame for that imo.

whatawaster · 23-04-2012 10:16AM

DDC1990 wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

Is football not about winning anymore?

We are on course for our worst season since the Pl began and have shown ourselves to be consistently unable to win matches

Scoring goals isnt luck.

Yes but its not the managers job to put the ball in the net either as some are suggesting.

Kenny has been poor in the transfer market, but we wouldn't be talking about that if we had one good striker to put the ball in the net.

A guy like Drogba or Tevez would have improved our season no end.

Can he be trusted to buy that striker?

awec · 23-04-2012 10:21AM

We haven't been unlucky.

We just don't have the quality up front to score goals. Suarez is the scorer of great goals, not a great goalscorer. Carroll hasn't had the best of seasons.

We must buy a poacher in the summer. I don't care if they are unable to play football outside the penalty box, just so long as when the ball lands at their feet or on their head inside the box they are making the keeper at least work!

Mr Alan · 23-04-2012 10:27AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Is football not about winning anymore?

This is pretty funny, we're on course to win 2 out of the 3 competitions we entered this season, yet you still want him sacked :P

Seems football is only about "winning" when it suits your argument, when it doesn't you're happy to bring other variables into the equation.

whatawaster wrote: »

Can he be trusted to buy that striker?

He's bought 2 (arguably 3) strikers since he has been back at the club;

Carroll
Suarez
Bellamy

I'd call 2 of the 3 a success, so yes, imo, he can be trusted to buy a striker (genuinely, his critics making our clubs greatest ever servant out to be some sort of retard is highly disrespectful imo).

missingtime · 23-04-2012 10:30AM

I don't think people are being disrespectful, I think there is a lot of frustration. Which is understandable.

D'Agger · 23-04-2012 10:32AM

tbqh after the weekend I found myself not angry - I've become used to the same old script playing out in front of my eyes week in week out this season.

Suarez needs to learn how to pass the ball instead of shooting from ridiculous angles - he's a super player to work space and gives defenders headaches but my god he's selfish and not good enough at putting away chances to allow him to be that way.

awec · 23-04-2012 10:38AM

PaulieC wrote: »

tbqh after the weekend I found myself not angry - I've become used to the same old script playing out in front of my eyes week in week out this season.

Suarez needs to learn how to pass the ball instead of shooting from ridiculous angles - he's a super player to work space and gives defenders headaches but my god he's selfish and not good enough at putting away chances to allow him to be that way.

He needs too many chances to score. It's like for every 10 chances he gets he'll put away 1.

Probably the most difficult one too.

whatawaster · 23-04-2012 10:39AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

Is football not about winning anymore?

This is pretty funny, we're on course to win 2 out of the 3 competitions we entered this season, yet you still want him sacked :P

Seems football is only about "winning" when it suits your argument, when it doesn't you're happy to bring other variables into the equation.

whatawaster wrote: »

Can he be trusted to buy that striker?

He's bought 2 (arguably 3) strikers since he has been back at the club;
Carroll

Suarez

Bellamy

I'd call 2 of the 3 a success, so yes, imo, he can be trusted to buy a striker (genuinely, his critics making our clubs greatest ever servant out to be some sort of retard is highly disrespectful imo).

Cups, while great to win, are not as important as they once were. Thats just how football has gone. The league will always be the barometer of how far the team has come imo and by that measure we have gone backwards.

The importance id attach to our comps this season is about 80% league and 20% cups. Thats why its been a failure imo.

Bad teams can win cups.

I have genuinely seen very little from this team that has me optimistic for next season.

I am not making him out to be nor am i suggesting he is a retard ffs. I just think he is doing a poor job

missingtime · 23-04-2012 10:42AM

Anyone think Suarez is suffering a bit of Stevie Gerrard syndrome? In that he doesn't trust anyone around him to get the job done so he feels that he has to do it all himself.

He gets very worked up if something isn't done right.

I'm sure he fell over with frustration at the linesman yesterday.

LuckyLloyd · 23-04-2012 10:44AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Cups, while great to win, are not as important as they once were. Thats just how football has gone. The league will always be the barometer of how far the team has come imo and by that measure we have gone backwards.

The importance id attach to our comps this season is about 80% league and 20% cups. Thats why its been a failure imo.

Bad teams can win cups.

I have genuinely seen very little from this team that has me optimistic for next season.

I am not making him out to be nor am i suggesting he is a retard ffs. I just think he is doing a poor job

Can they get to the final of two in one season?

Mr Alan · 23-04-2012 10:44AM

Who do you want as manager then Whatawaster?

Any if/when he doesn't get back into top four at his first bite of the cherry (which to be fair, would be very likely with the increased competiveness of the league), who do you want after that?

LuckyLloyd · 23-04-2012 10:49AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Who do you want as manager then Whatawaster?

Any if/when he doesn't get back into top four at his first bite of the cherry (which to be fair, would be very likely with the increased competiveness of the league), who do you want after that?

It's mad to me that we're going to sack a manager who has reached two cup finals and claim that 'we've seen nothing to indicate he can take us forward'.

niallo27 · 23-04-2012 10:52AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Cups, while great to win, are not as important as they once were. Thats just how football has gone. The league will always be the barometer of how far the team has come imo and by that measure we have gone backwards.

The importance id attach to our comps this season is about 80% league and 20% cups. Thats why its been a failure imo.

Bad teams can win cups.

I have genuinely seen very little from this team that has me optimistic for next season.

I am not making him out to be nor am i suggesting he is a retard ffs. I just think he is doing a poor job

They can but they rarely do, have a look back at the teams who have won the F.A. cup over the last 10 years.

amiable · 23-04-2012 10:53AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Can he be trusted to buy that striker?

This has turned in to such a cliche.

He's either the manager or not and if he is in charge in the summer if there are funds available he has to be allowed spend them if he wants to IMO.

mike65 · 23-04-2012 10:55AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What more do you want from yesterday's game?

- dominate possession and control tempo and territory? Check.
- be positive? Check.
- create chances? Check.
- limit the opposition's attempts on our goal? Check.

After that folks, you just need the ball to go in. You also need a bit of fortune in that your one glaring defensive error isn't punished.

Yesterday's performance didn't upset me. I don't see how the game really changed anything tbh.

Yesterdays performance confirmed everything about this season, slow, well telegraphed attacking and profligate finishing which meant the side was only one error away from conceding, which duly happened. Your checklist means nothing in the scheme of things if game after game the same thing happens.

Its systemic failure not bad luck

23-04-2012 10:55AM

Seriously wtf is the story with our conversion rate?

28 shots yesterday and no goals.

This has happened in god knows how many games this season, so bloody frustrating.

What's woodworks strike rate now? Must be up around 40 or so.

The buck generally stops with the manager in football but I don't feel he is entirely to blame. The players with their wasteful finishing have to shoulder a lot of the blame.

Also so frustrating that we can win the big games and not beat the lower teams.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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