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Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

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Comments

  • #332
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    celticcrash wrote: »
    Ok let me put it this way Would you leave your daughter out the door to be picked up by a fella
    with no licence, iffy insurance, no tax and bald tyres.

    what difference does that make if he had all those things but was a lunatic on the road.


  • #333
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    thebullkf wrote: »
    really??......now who's making stupid statements:rolleyes:


    um ...eh... he could've avoided them if..............


    ... he OBEYED THE LAW !!! and not driven a car he legally had no right to drive.

    Just say he had everything in order on the night in question what difference would it have made? would they not have been on the road? would he not have hit them if he had a d/lic and tax?


  • #334
    celticcrash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    hondasam wrote: »
    what difference does that make if he had all those things but was a lunatic on the road.
    A simple yea or no will suffice.


  • #335
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    thebullkf wrote: »
    really??......now who's making stupid statements:rolleyes:


    um ...eh... he could've avoided them if..............


    ... he OBEYED THE LAW !!! and not driven a car he legally had no right to drive.

    If your motor tax is out for one day, does that make you more to blame for running over someone lying in the dark on a motorway, than someone who`s tax is out the next day?


  • #336
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Ah, we should leave this poor lad alone, as someone once said while trying to defend their Garda mate drink driving......He'll probably get an awful slagging off his mates for it...


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  • #337
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    celticcrash wrote: »
    A simple yea or no will suffice.

    It's a silly question. If he had everything in order but was reckless then no I would not let her out with him.


  • #338
    Itsdacraic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭Itsdacraic


    He did society a favour getting rid of that heroin dealer


  • #339
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    hondasam wrote: »
    Just say he had everything in order on the night in question what difference would it have made? would they not have been on the road? would he not have hit them if he had a d/lic and tax?

    We'll never know:(


    but what we do know is, that due to illegality on both parties, 2 are dead, one gets a €900 fine despite knowlingly breaking laws he was employed, and swore to uphold.

    He brings other garda into a bad light.


    The defence of him (and what he did) here i hope is not indicative of the Gardai in general, they do trojan work but there are some right clowns wearing the uniform (same as other professions no doubt) but the role of AGS should be held in higher scrutiny, there should be a higher onus on the part of a Garda to act in a manner befitting his station.

    This clown failed, miserably, and deaths or no deaths i would wager its not the first time he's broken the law.

    Man should lose his job, Safety Officers on building sites lose their jobs through no fault of their own, by workers stupidity,and taking shortcuts, being over confident and arrogant. This man is no different, and should be treated with the same contempt he displayed in refusing to obey the law.


  • #340
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    hondasam wrote: »
    I nearly knocked someone down recently and I did not see him until the last moment, it was dark, he was wearing dark clothes and no light. I am not a nervous driver and drive a lot every day but it fcuking scared me and gave me a serious fright.
    I was alone in the car and was not distracted, it happens and the driver is not always in the wrong. It's easy to say it will never happen but the reality is a bit different.
    I have had similar near misses in the past but was always able to stop in time because i was concentrating on driving and the road rather than mobile phone or other modern distractions
    robbie7730 wrote: »
    How many lads did you see lying in the middle of the motorway at night in that time? Never took eye off the road even for a second in all your driving?

    I never even hit a cat yet. It means nothing. This fella probably never hit anyone before this either.
    Came across a few scary fellas around the country, one night out in the wilds of monaghan miles from anywhere two lads had stopped their van and got out at 4.30am to beat the sh1t out of each other. I have on several occasions picked up young women walking alone on narrow country roads full of drink/drugs and often went out of my way to drop them home in the dead of night, I came across one guy one night who was having a sh1t on the road, I have been involved in a few collisions and luckily nobody was injured in any of them.
    MagicSean wrote: »
    Ok I'll indulge you
    Thank you
    Well unless the forensic investigation agrees with that version lying is pointless.
    Do the gardai not look after their own?
    So you have killed things that appeared suddenly in poor lighting. Yet somehow you think this is different. At 120 kph your stopping distance is five times your reaction distance. I'm assuming you have no super powers and that you are human. As has been explained this particular incident happened on a bad bend in pitch dark. If he had a chance to take evasive action he would have. It's a natural reaction. Of course he and his passenger would likely be the deceased ones. if you were driving the car in those exact conditions you would be no different to him.
    Things/animals which have more or less committed suicide by running out so close that taking evasive or avoiding action would not have been possible or safe

    No it doesn't.
    I was always told that lying on any insurance form will void the policy you are taking out. you must be honest in your dealings with the insurer at all times otherwise you destroy the relationship between them and you.

    Speaking of Honesty, the Garda in this case could do with a few pointers about honesty.


    Because dark clothing against a dark backround (the road) leaves little to no outline. If you ever drove country roads at night and encountered an unlit pedestrian you would know this.
    I have come across many older people walking along what were old national primary and secondary routes walking home from the pub wearing nothing reflective and the only way I would see them was the feint shine off the wellingtons.
    Yes it worked well. Nobody knows.



    So he should be treated like anyone else.



    Each Garda who has not completed a course must renew their driving priviledge each year and the application includes a copy of your licence so I doubt any drivers have no licence. Of course you can be a member of the traffic corps and not be a driver.
    Can they "complete a course" without holding a licence?

    They are some serious accusations with nothing to back them up.
    THey go back to the assumption which more and more people will make that the Gardai look after their own in cases like this and the ridiculous fines handed down only bolster this in the minds of decent law abiding people who have a licence and who would never even dream of driving without one or if their car was untaxed or unroadworthy!
    They would have lived if they had not been rolling around on a motorway. There is nothing this person could have done to avoid them. That is a fact wether you like it or not.
    How is this fact? those two lads would be alive and well today if that off duty garda had not decided he was above the law!

    It would be interesting to find out how long he was driving without tax and with two bald tyres and with no licence, I am getting the impression that it is the norm for him and many other gardai rather than just a case of neglecting to check the tryes regularly, neglecting to get a driving licence and neglecting to tax a car.

    This guy would forget his head if it wasn't attached!

    This fella did neither.
    lots more have been found out to be abusing their positions and rules like the licence one.


  • #341
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    If your motor tax is out for one day, does that make you more to blame for running over someone lying in the dark on a motorway, than someone who`s tax is out the next day?

    coupled with baldy tyres, no license , and (allegedly) no insurance... of course..!!!


    Shouldn't be on the road in the first place!!

    He didn't "just" have no tax.... why fixate on that ?

    What if he killed your brothers?... still think he's not to blame?..


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  • #342
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    Itsdacraic wrote: »
    He did society a favour getting rid of that heroin dealer


    So its ok for Gardai to break the law once its dealers they "get rid of" ...


  • #343
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    thebullkf wrote: »
    We'll never know:(


    but what we do know is, that due to illegality on both parties, 2 are dead, one gets a €900 fine despite knowlingly breaking laws he was employed, and swore to uphold.

    He brings other garda into a bad light.


    The defence of him (and what he did) here i hope is not indicative of the Gardai in general, they do trojan work but there are some right clowns wearing the uniform (same as other professions no doubt) but the role of AGS should be held in higher scrutiny, there should be a higher onus on the part of a Garda to act in a manner befitting his station.

    This clown failed, miserably, and deaths or no deaths i would wager its not the first time he's broken the law.

    Man should lose his job, Safety Officers on building sites lose their jobs through no fault of their own, by workers stupidity,and taking shortcuts, being over confident and arrogant. This man is no different, and should be treated with the same contempt he displayed in refusing to obey the law.

    If all his documents were in order we would not be having this conversation and the accident would still have happened.
    Have you ever broken the law? driven without tax, no seat belt or any motoring offence? I know I have driven without tax for a few days and I know I drive over the speed limit. Most of us break some law at some time.


  • #344
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I have had similar near misses in the past but was always able to stop in time because i was concentrating on driving and the road rather than mobile phone or other modern distractions

    Are you suggesting I was on my mobile phone at the time or you saying he was on his at the time?
    I did not stop I only just swerved on time, if I hit him you would assume I was in the wrong?


  • #345
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    hondasam wrote: »
    If all his documents were in order we would not be having this conversation and the accident would still have happened.
    Have you ever broken the law? driven without tax, no seat belt or any motoring offence? I know I have driven without tax for a few days and I know I drive over the speed limit. Most of us break some law at some time.

    i agree HS, but to an extent... Action vs Consequence.

    Through his arrogance and incompetence he killed 2 people. for him to get a fine like that is paltry:mad:

    if he didnt pay the household charge he could be fined nearly TRIPLE that amount.... you telling me thats comparitive (not saying House charge is fair)
    The legislation behind the charge also provides for fines of up to €2,500 for people who do not pay the charge on time.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/details-on-household-charge-penalties-emerging-418752-Apr2012/


  • #346
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    thebullkf wrote: »
    coupled with baldy tyres, no license , and (allegedly) no insurance... of course..!!!


    Shouldn't be on the road in the first place!!

    He didn't "just" have no tax.... why fixate on that ?
    Because the law says no driving without tax also. So if you hit someone and have no tax, is that ok?
    What if he killed your brothers?... still think he's not to blame?..

    What if your driving, and a fella is lying on the road in pitch dark and you fail to see him, and you run over him, are you to blame?

    Or if you are going 140kph in a 120 zone, and later you kill someone who suddenly runs out in front of you while going 50kph in a 50 zone, are you to blame there?


  • #347
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Itsdacraic wrote: »
    He did society a favour getting rid of that heroin dealer

    I'm sure he does not think the same as you seeing as he has this man's death on his conscience. What ever he was involved in has no bearing on how he died.


  • #348
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    thebullkf wrote: »
    i agree HS, but to an extent... Action vs Consequence.

    Through his arrogance and incompetence he killed 2 people. for him to get a fine like that is paltry:mad:

    I don't agree with any of those tbh, It was an accident he could not avoid it. If he was fined ten thousand and banned for ten yrs would it make a difference?


  • #349
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Padkir wrote: »
    Sorry didn't read the rest of this thread, but need to point out something and might have a bit of a rant about it! :D

    He might not have had full beams on if there was oncoming traffic across the island, something which a lot of people driving on motorways seem to forget and don't care about blinding someone across the median!!!

    There should be nothing in the way and because a motorway is not likely to have any sharp corners or anything you should be happily able to tip along on dipped beams! Not his fault there were pedestrians on the motorway, much less that they were lying in the middle of the road!

    In saying that, prob should have got a higher fine and thrown out of the guards for not having a licence but as was said, ombudsman is still investigating!
    Fair enough but on a motorway even in the dead of night in the wet your vision is far better than it is on most other roads simply by the road being more open to moonlight and your lights being more effective on the better road surface, he should have seen these two lads and should have made some attempt to avoid hitting them. from what i have read so far it appears no avoiding or evasive actions were taken or there was no evidence of this from the markings on the road after the incident.
    micropig wrote: »
    Ah, we should leave this poor lad alone, as someone once said while trying to defend their Garda mate drink driving......He'll probably get an awful slagging off his mates for it...
    Might be a while before he is sent down for the chips and pizzas, Maybe they have an old station bike they could give him?
    hondasam wrote: »
    If all his documents were in order we would not be having this conversation and the accident would still have happened.
    Have you ever broken the law? driven without tax, no seat belt or any motoring offence? I know I have driven without tax for a few days and I know I drive over the speed limit. Most of us break some law at some time.
    What a ridiculous statement!

    This guy is responsible for the deaths of two other people! No matter what way you spin it if he was obeying the laws he took an oath to uphold then those two lads would be alive and well today!

    They are dead as a direct result of his unlawful actions.


  • #350
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    foggy_lad wrote: »

    What a ridiculous statement!

    This guy is responsible for the deaths of two other people! No matter what way you spin it if he was obeying the laws he took an oath to uphold then those two lads would be alive and well today!

    They are dead as a direct result of his unlawful actions.

    You call my statement ridiculous and then you post that :pac:
    How would he have avoided the accident?


  • #351
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    hondasam wrote: »
    Are you suggesting I was on my mobile phone at the time or you saying he was on his at the time?
    I did not stop I only just swerved on time, if I hit him you would assume I was in the wrong?

    I am suggesting that all drivers today are at greater risk of being distracted whist driving by several things, mobile phones, sat nav, dvd players, stereos you need a degree to operate, handsfree kits that are not set up properly, tinted glass that obscures the view, etc etc.

    years ago you were lucky to have a seat belt and a push button radio and had nothing else to do except drive! also tyres were chacked for thread every few weeks and for air weekly, I am saying his mind was not on his driving or he would have seen those poor unfortunates in time to avoid killing them!


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  • #352
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    hondasam wrote: »
    I don't agree with any of those tbh, It was an accident he could not avoid it. If he was fined ten thousand and banned for ten yrs would it make a difference?

    yeah it would, it would encourage every motorist to ensure they

    a-had a licence
    b-tax
    c-legally roadworthy car.


  • #353
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    What a ridiculous statement!

    This guy is responsible for the deaths of two other people! No matter what way you spin it if he was obeying the laws he took an oath to uphold then those two lads would be alive and well today!

    They are dead as a direct result of his unlawful actions.

    Your assuming that if he obeyed the laws, he would not have been driving at that time, but he could of obeyed them and had all his car items in check, and been driving, with the same result.

    If you lie at night on a motorway, there is a fair chance of being run over by someone. And this is a major factor in why they are dead. There is a good chance someone else might have hit them anyway.

    Some motorway accidents involve people stopped on the hard shoulder being hit by traffic, in the daytime. Its often mentioned in adds about breakdowns on motorways, dont stay in your car etx. You might say a motorway has better visibility etc, but people pay less attention when driving on them than a narrow windy road.


  • #354
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    hondasam wrote: »
    You call my statement ridiculous and then you post that :pac:
    How would he have avoided the accident?

    by not driving a car he had no business driving....:confused:

    don't understand the flawed logic here...?


  • #355
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    If two gardai were killed whilst fighting in the road, by a motorist without a licence, insurance, tax or hardly any thread on his tyres.. is everyone here honstly saying they'd only get a €900 fine????

    Genuine question.


  • #356
    thebullkf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭thebullkf


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Because the law says no driving without tax also. So if you hit someone and have no tax, is that ok?



    What if your driving, and a fella is lying on the road in pitch dark and you fail to see him, and you run over him, are you to blame?

    Or if you are going 140kph in a 120 zone, and later you kill someone who suddenly runs out in front of you while going 50kph in a 50 zone, are you to blame there?

    see my post above.


  • #357
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    thebullkf wrote: »
    If two gardai were killed whilst fighting in the road, by a motorist without a licence, insurance, tax or hardly any thread on his tyres.. is everyone here honstly saying they'd only get a €900 fine????

    Genuine question.

    Probably not, but the sentences for similar convictions of every aspect, vary wildly anyway. One fella might get 5 years prison for that, while another would get penalty points.


  • #358
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    thebullkf wrote: »
    by not driving a car he had no business driving....:confused:

    don't understand the flawed logic here...?

    Fair enough if he did not drive on that night he would not have killed them.
    If they were not lying on the road he would not have killed them, If he did not kill them the next car would have, there is a lot of IF's there.


  • #359
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    in america if you are doing something illegal and that causes something bad to happen then you are guilty of that too

    so in america yer man would be up for double manslaughter

    in america bertie and his crowd would be in jail and the bad banks would have folded

    i think this is why people really really want to go to america


  • #360
    boneheaded
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 ✭boneheaded


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Fair enough but on a motorway even in the dead of night in the wet your vision is far better than it is on most other roads simply by the road being more open to moonlight and your lights being more effective on the better road surface, he should have seen these two lads and should have made some attempt to avoid hitting them. from what i have read so far it appears no avoiding or evasive actions were taken or there was no evidence of this from the markings on the road after the incident.

    Might be a while before he is sent down for the chips and pizzas, Maybe they have an old station bike they could give him?

    What a ridiculous statement!

    This guy is responsible for the deaths of two other people! No matter what way you spin it if he was obeying the laws he took an oath to uphold then those two lads would be alive and well today!

    They are dead as a direct result of his unlawful actions.

    SO if it had been aanyone other than a Guard driving the car they would still be alive????


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  • #361
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    thebullkf wrote: »
    If two gardai were killed whilst fighting in the road, by a motorist without a licence, insurance, tax or hardly any thread on his tyres.. is everyone here honstly saying they'd only get a €900 fine????

    Genuine question.

    Two gardai in uniform fighting on the road, hope we never see this :pac:

    serious answer, no one can predict that. Look what happened in donegal when the garda was killed.


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