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Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

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Comments

  • #32
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    elviscostello wrote: »
    Had he followed the law and not driven the car, he certainly wouldn't have, but the next car would have.

    He couldn't help what happened, apart from not being there in the first place.


    We don't know that for sure. The only thing we do know for sure is a driver who shouldn't have been on the road killed two people.

    It is obvouis it was an accident and the driver must have in right shock after it but it doesn't absolve him from the deaths.


  • #33
    SunnyDub1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭SunnyDub1


    If the car had of been in road worthy condition, it could have been avoided...

    And how the fuk could you not see 2 people on a road? Had he no lights?

    Last but not least ... He had no bloody license. HE SHOULDN'T OF BEEN ON THE ROAD !


  • #34
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    seamus wrote: »
    If they had been following the law, they wouldn't have died.

    But a car coming along 30 seconds later would have anyway.


  • #35
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    But it did lead to their deaths. Had he followed the law he would certainly not have killed them.

    Not nessessarly. If he followed the letter of the law he could have had his licence renewed the week before and still drove.
    The people on the middle of the road were the people who made the biggest mistake here.


  • #36
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    seamus wrote: »
    If they had been following the law, they wouldn't have died.

    They aren't the ones being prosecuted. I think the consequences of their law breaking was severe enough.


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  • #37
    SunnyDub1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭SunnyDub1


    rotinaj wrote: »
    He would still of killed them. No mater how good the tyres or reactions of the driver you are not gonna bring an average car form 120kph to a stop in the time he would of seen them.


    Its a motor way... big enough road and space for a car to be moved.. hardly imagine the 2 of them where taking up the whole road


  • #38
    _feedback_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    We don't know that for sure. The only thing we do know for sure is a driver who shouldn't have been on the road killed two people.

    It is obvouis it was an accident and the driver must have in right shock after it but it doesn't absolve him from the deaths.

    But sure there would have been a forensic investigation in to what happened. If the condition of the car or his ability was found to be at fault, he would have been charged with that.


  • #39
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    he was driving with no driving license ?

    I would like to see anyone else just get a fine for having no licene... If it was anyone else they would get more then a fine

    I doubt theres any shortage of court cases where people get fines for being caught with no licence.


  • #40
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    No driving licence, no car tax and had two bald tyres, The solicitor said while he did not want to dilute the tragic consequences of this accident, the garda was not facing any driving charges and there was no criminal culpability in the case.

    Doesn't this account for a driving ban ?. It would if it was any of us.


  • #41
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 33,615 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »

    And how the fuk could you not see 2 people on a road? Had he no lights?

    Have you never nearly had a heart attack when you're almost on top of an unlit cyclist/pedestrian at night? Because I have, and that's mostly in the city on "lit" roads. There's absolutely nothing reflective about two people lying in the overtaking lane on a motorway, lights count for almost nothing - and at motorway speed even if he had seen them it's doubtful if he'd be able to stop in time anyway.


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  • #42
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    at night on that stretch of road (no road side lighting) doing 120kmph he would have been on them before he knew it I imagine.

    Where exactly did it happen?


  • #43
    OldGoat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,647 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    The court appear to have been lienent. They overlooked his not being insured.

    http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/Types-of-offences/
    No insurance: 5 penalty points and a fine of up to €2,500 and/or a possible term of imprisonment

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



  • #44
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    He got no driving ban?

    He could apply for a licence and be on the road legally in a few weeks time?


  • #45
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    Its a motor way... big enough road and space for a car to be moved.. hardly imagine the 2 of them where taking up the whole road


    It was at night, on an unlit part of the motorway, doing 120kmph.

    I drive home that road every night, I cant imagine that it would be that easy to spot the 2 guys. Doubt they were wearing hi-viz jackets.

    I'm not defending the guy, he will face alot more consequences than a 900e fine i imagine, and I guess it will haunt the guy.

    The fact that he is a Guard is of little relevance


  • #46
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    SunnyDub1 wrote: »
    If the car had of been in road worthy condition, it could have been avoided...
    Pure speculation.
    Last but not least ... He had no bloody license. HE SHOULDN'T OF BEEN ON THE ROAD !
    Hence the fine.


  • #47
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    SunnyDub1 wrote: »

    And how the fuk could you not see 2 people on a road? Had he no lights?

    Have you never nearly had a heart attack when you're almost on top of an unlit cyclist/pedestrian at night? Because I have, and that's mostly in the city on "lit" roads. There's absolutely nothing reflective about two people lying in the overtaking lane on a motorway, lights count for almost nothing - and at motorway speed even if he had seen them it's doubtful if he'd be able to stop in time anyway.

    You could possibly swerve to avoid them though.

    I'm interested to know why he had no license but owned a car. Had he never had a license, had he lost a license, was he not required to have a license?

    There was a Garda on the N3 who killed a woman while driving and, if I recall correctly, he had no license. The outcome of a court case was that he did not need one as he was a Garda.

    Edit:

    This is the case I am referring to

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/garda-in-fatal-crash-didnt-have-a-driving-licence-inquest-told-1945362.html

    It says that the legislation not requiring him to have a license was recommended to be reviewed so maybe they do need it now.

    He was driving to court when he killed her so he was doing so in the line of his duty but if you have no license but own a car and kill someone while driving, it is obvious you have been driving for a while.


  • #48
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Where exactly did it happen?

    Somewhere past the Raheen exit from what I understand


  • #49
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    tuxy wrote: »
    He got no driving ban?

    He could apply for a licence and be on the road legally in a few weeks time?


    He has been fined for his motoring related offenses. He was not charged of speeding/drink driving so no ban.


  • #50
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Pure speculation.

    Hence the fine.

    The fine is that part I have a problem with, driving with no Insurance and License in an unroadworthy car should be an automatic driving ban.


  • #51
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Terrontress wrote: »
    There was a Garda on the N3 who killed a woman while driving and, if I recall correctly, he had no license. The outcome of a court case was that he did not need one as he was a Garda.

    It doesn't matter if he is a garda, If you drive a vehicle on any road you have to have a licence end of story. There shouldn't be one set of rules for 1 person and another set for the other.


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  • #52
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Did he not have a licence or had he just not renewed it?


  • #53
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    From RTE..He said Garda Clifford had no previous convictions, had an impeccable record and was a good and upstanding member of the community.

    What the hell does this have to do with him driving without a licence. He should be banned from driving simple as that.

    EDIT: awaiting confirmation on whether he had insurance or not.


  • #54
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Funkstard wrote: »
    Hang on, he knocked the two people down but they were on the ground having a scuffle in the middle of the motorway at night (as you do) and the car ran over them. If I remember correctly the garda didn't even know what he'd hit as it was so dark - that stretch of the motorway has no lights. He is being fined for driving without a licence or insurance and isn't culpable for anything else that happened.

    He really should know better than to drive with no d/lic, bald tyres and on a motorway. He is there to uphold the law and break it.
    I have some sympathy for him because he did not see the people on the ground and could not avoid them.

    where does it say he had no insurance?


  • #55
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 33,615 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    zenno wrote: »
    What the hell does this have to do with him driving without insurance, licence. He should be banned from driving simple as that.

    Every person convicted is entitled to have a plea made in mitigation, and the judge must take these into account as well as how s/he pleaded. Them's the rules, like them or not.


  • #56
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    He has been fined for his motoring related offenses. He was not charged of speeding/drink driving so no ban.

    I figured driving with no licence would normally mean a ban from the road.
    Am I wrong?
    And for driving with no insurance he should have points waiting to go on his licence if he applies for one.


  • #57
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    But it did lead to their deaths. Had he followed the law he would certainly not have killed them.

    If I jump off a motorway overpass, landing right in front of a car which hits and kills me is the driver to be held culpable for my death if it afterwards turns out his indicator lights weren't working? Or his brake lights?


  • #58
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    marco_polo wrote: »
    driving with no Insurance and License in an unroadworthy car should be an automatic driving ban.
    There is nothing in the article to indicate that the Garda did not have insurance to be fair.

    Driving without a licence is a tough one because it covers both people who have never done the test and people who have just forgotten to renew, which in reality are poles apart.

    I would have the expected maximum monetary penalty for each charge though on the basis that a member of the Garda should know better.


  • #59
    Terrontress
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    hondasam wrote: »
    Funkstard wrote: »
    Hang on, he knocked the two people down but they were on the ground having a scuffle in the middle of the motorway at night (as you do) and the car ran over them. If I remember correctly the garda didn't even know what he'd hit as it was so dark - that stretch of the motorway has no lights. He is being fined for driving without a licence or insurance and isn't culpable for anything else that happened.

    He really should know better than to drive with no d/lic, bald tyres and on a motorway. He is there to uphold the law and break it.
    I have some sympathy for him because he did not see the people on the ground and could not avoid them.

    where does it say he had no insurance?

    I believe that if my car is not taxed or roadworthy that my insurance will not cover me.

    And when I insure my car they always ask if I have a driving license. I haven't said no but if I did, would they insure me?


  • #60
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    seamus wrote: »
    There is nothing in the article to indicate that the Garda did not have insurance to be fair.

    Which insurance company takes on customers with no valid licence?


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  • #61
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    hondasam wrote: »
    He really should know better than to drive with no d/lic, bald tyres and on a motorway. He is there to uphold the law and break it.
    I have some sympathy for him because he did not see the people on the ground and could not avoid them.

    where does it say he had no insurance?


    Having a license is a condition of having valid insurance.


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