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Eamon Delaney trolling Ireland over the Commonwealth

  • 08-04-2012 05:41PM
    #1
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭


    The former diplomat Eamon Delaney is consistently bringing up the issue of whether or not Ireland should join the Commonwealth (IMO "no")...


    What I find odd about this is that if any of you have ever read his book "An Accidental Diplomat" which documents his time working in the Department of Foreign Affairs (a fairly good book incidentally) in the early 90's he ridicules the British and extols the virtues of Irish nationalism. That book was only published in 2002 or 3 I think.

    Now, since he started writing articles for the Sunday Independent he is coming out with all this Commonwealth stuff and how we are a failure as a country and should go grovelling to the British and this sort of thing. He even gave an interview like this in the Unionist "Newsletter" newspaper up North of all places a few days ago. And he also speaks at the neo unionist "reform" events aswell...


    Either the guy is very confused or he is just a hypocrite. I used to have time for Mr Delaney but he cannot be taken seriously as a commentator anymore IMO.

    What do make of a flip flop like this? I reckon he is just trying to be controversial. I do wonder is there something more to it but i'd rather not go down that road! He is far from the only public commentator to do this. Conor Cruise O'Brien for example jumped back and forth between different agendas and philosophies many times too! Curiously he was also in Foreign Affairs and went on to write for the Sunday Indo.....seems like a trend.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,698 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Well it is the Independent he is writing for. Most ink on that rag should be ignored.

    He was trolling rugby last week: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77931753
    Article: Rugby:A better class of arrogance by Eamonn Sweeney

    I've had the displeasure of working with him for a thankfully very short while.


  • #3
    NinjaK
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 963 ✭✭✭NinjaK


    He is playing up to his west-brit readership.


  • #4
    AllGunsBlazing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,706 ✭✭✭AllGunsBlazing


    Well if his intention is to pander to a west brit mentality then attacking rugby is the wrong way to go about it tbf.

    He seems more a like a general shít stirrer to me and is just looking for a reaction with this back to the commonwealth stuff. Economically we're already attached at the hip with Britain as it is. On any number of levels their relationship with us is far more involved than it is with many of it's fellow commonwealth members.

    His next article will probably be a call for either the abolition of the Catholic church in Ireland or bypassing the dail in favour of direct Papal rule from Rome. Depending on which ever one he thinks will create the biggest ruck.


  • #5
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    A Martian arriving on our little island from outer space on the 31st of December 1998 would look at the British and Irish economy and ask why on Earth are these two economies not under the same administration? He just wouldn't get it.

    That all changed on the 1st of January, 1999, when the single European currency would have answered that question for him.

    However, there remain strong logical reasons why Ireland, a small open economy as it is, ought to enhance its trade relationship with Britain and with Britain's Commonwealth partners: yes, the likes of Canada and Australia, but perhaps more notably the likes of significant emerging economies like India, South Africa and Nigeria.

    While I am unsure about the cultural arguments that Delaney has made, the economic & trade arguments would at least appear to be pretty obvious.

    But of course, people will always want to introduce nationalism into the question.

    I think it would be rather a shame if a chip on our shoulder held this economy back from enhancing its growth opportunities either by greater co-ordination with the British or with its potentially valuable trading partners within the Commonwealth.


  • #6
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    So Eamon Delaney joins Eamon De valera and a long line of Irish politicians who wants the ROI to rejoin the Commonwealth!

    Hardly newsworthy these days, and like many others I think we should never have left the Commonwealth in the 1st place, John A Costello has a lot to answer to. I also think that if we did rejoin, the message to Unionists would be akin to a friendly hand been offered across the border, and who knows . . . Maybe political unification would come a big step closer? I certainly can't see any downside to rejoining, specially now that we have discovered that the Queen is not a dragon, but a rather lovely person greatly admired by many in the ROI, as well as the UK and across the globe.


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  • #7
    AllGunsBlazing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,706 ✭✭✭AllGunsBlazing


    later12 wrote: »
    However, there remain strong logical reasons why Ireland, a small open economy as it is, ought to enhance its trade relationship with Britain and with Britain's Commonwealth partners: yes, the likes of Canada and Australia, but perhaps more notably the likes of significant emerging economies like India, South Africa and Nigeria.

    How could our trade links possibly be any stronger with the UK than they already are? As it is Britain exports more to Ireland than to Brazil, Russia, India and China together. George Osborne highlighted this fact himself during his budget speech saying that was the road to Britain's economic irrelevance.

    That in itself indicates that the UK government doesn't see an awful lot of mutual benefit in aligning ourselves closer.


  • #8
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,708 ✭✭✭serfboard


    tricky D wrote: »
    Well it is the Independent he is writing for. Most ink on that rag should be ignored.

    He was trolling rugby last week: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77931753
    Article: Rugby:A better class of arrogance by Eamonn Sweeney

    I've had the displeasure of working with him for a thankfully very short while.
    You are referring to an article by someone called Eamonn Sweeney. This thread is about an article by Eamonn Delaney.


  • #9
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Lord Sutch wrote: »
    So Eamon Delaney joins Eamon De valera and a long line of Irish politicians who wants the ROI to rejoin the Commonwealth!

    Hardly newsworthy these days, and like many others I think we should never have left the Commonwealth in the 1st place, John A Costello has a lot to answer to. I also think that if we did rejoin, the message to Unionists would be akin to a friendly hand been offered across the border, and who knows . . . Maybe political unification would come a big step closer? I certainly can't see any downside to rejoining, specially now that we have discovered that the Queen is not a dragon, but a rather lovely person greatly admired by many in the ROI, as well as the UK and across the globe.

    If you really are wondering why Ireland will never join the commonwealth maybe its because there are some unionist people like you who are having wet dreams about something that will not be happening. People who are of the view that Ireland is some sort of wayward and confused younger sibling that Britain patiently and benevolently tolerates. People who see our national sovereignty as something so trivial that we would should need no better justification for rejoining the Commonwealth other than it being "a wonderful present for the Queen on her Jubilee and sure she is a grand old lady. As for you many people claim and your long list of ROI politicians who support your view,Name them or show a link to such a long list.


  • #10
    gordon_gekko
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭gordon_gekko


    would be a massive step backwards although so would agreeing to an EU superstate which many seem a lot less concerned about , the support for a YES result in the upcoming referendum is deeply worrying


  • #11
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    darkman2 wrote: »
    The former diplomat Eamon Delaney is consistently bringing up the issue of whether or not Ireland should join the Commonwealth (IMO "no")...


    What I find odd about this is that if any of you have ever read his book "An Accidental Diplomat" which documents his time working in the Department of Foreign Affairs (a fairly good book incidentally) in the early 90's he ridicules the British and extols the virtues of Irish nationalism. That book was only published in 2002 or 3 I think.

    Now, since he started writing articles for the Sunday Independent he is coming out with all this Commonwealth stuff and how we are a failure as a country and should go grovelling to the British and this sort of thing. He even gave an interview like this in the Unionist "Newsletter" newspaper up North of all places a few days ago. And he also speaks at the neo unionist "reform" events aswell...


    Either the guy is very confused or he is just a hypocrite. I used to have time for Mr Delaney but he cannot be taken seriously as a commentator anymore IMO.

    What do make of a flip flop like this? I reckon he is just trying to be controversial. I do wonder is there something more to it but i'd rather not go down that road! He is far from the only public commentator to do this. Conor Cruise O'Brien for example jumped back and forth between different agendas and philosophies many times too! Curiously he was also in Foreign Affairs and went on to write for the Sunday Indo.....seems like a trend.
    " since he started writing articles for the Sunday Independent " Says it all, I'd only use it for toilet paper.


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  • #12
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    Ah, the Sunday Independent. What a paper.


  • #13
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    LordSutch wrote: »
    So Eamon Delaney joins Eamon De valera and a long line of Irish politicians who wants the ROI to rejoin the Commonwealth!

    Hardly newsworthy these days, and like many others I think we should never have left the Commonwealth in the 1st place, John A Costello has a lot to answer to. I also think that if we did rejoin, the message to Unionists would be akin to a friendly hand been offered across the border, and who knows . . . Maybe political unification would come a big step closer? I certainly can't see any downside to rejoining, specially now that we have discovered that the Queen is not a dragon, but a rather lovely person greatly admired by many in the ROI, as well as the UK and across the globe.

    Speak for yourself.

    Only for the current economic problems and the usual self loathing, most Irish People would not consider joining the Commonwealth. It was not an idea entertained much in the past, so why now? Ah, but you have your own reasons.

    **** the Unionists, they had spent long enough dictating Irish life, they can shag off now. They have no interest in reunification, so sod them, their kind won't be around for much longer anyway.

    Who said the Queen was a Dragon? She is admired, but it does not mean we want to get into bed with her and her nation.


    As I have asked so many times to the pro common wealth brigade, and it is NEVER answered

    + Considering that we have membership of the EU along with the UK; we already have had our own economic treaties with the UK; considering that the only thing stopping Ireland from expanding markets etc to other Commonwealth States is product, quality, energy and competition

    Why the hell would we NEED to join the Commonwealth?

    You suggesting that Commonwealth Membership would get us over the bargaining line?

    China is the new America, Ireland does not need the Commonwealth to go digging there. We survived on America Investment.

    Not everyone can be sought and sold for a few pieces of silver and gold.


  • #14
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    walrusgumble wrote: »
    Speak for yourself.

    **** the Unionists, they had spent long enough dictating Irish life, they can shag off now.

    OK then, bye.


  • #15
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    gordon_gekko wrote: »
    would be a massive step backwards although so would agreeing to an EU superstate which many seem a lot less concerned about , the support for a YES result in the upcoming referendum is deeply worrying

    Why a step backwards? There are a lot of countries commited to the commonwealth and a number applying to join. They obviously see the commonwealth as being advantages, why would it involve a step backwards for Ireland?


  • #16
    NinjaK
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 963 ✭✭✭NinjaK


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why a step backwards? There are a lot of countries commited to the commonwealth and a number applying to join. They obviously see the commonwealth as being advantages, why would it involve a step backwards for Ireland?

    Because we were ruled by the Brits (our brothers in the North still are) and we dont want to connected with that lot again. You probably see nothing wrong with their 800 years of occupation of Ireland, the rest of us normal Gaels do.


  • #17
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭COYW


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why a step backwards? There are a lot of countries commited to the commonwealth and a number applying to join. They obviously see the commonwealth as being advantages, why would it involve a step backwards for Ireland?

    There are no economic negatives to it unless you are blinded by nationalism. The 800 year nonsense is the only reason nationalists ever come up with. Yet, they are more than happy the build stronger links with countries like China, who threat their own citizens so well, right ...... :rolleyes:


  • #18
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    NinjaK wrote: »
    Because we were ruled by the Brits (our brothers in the North still are) and we dont want to connected with that lot again. You probably see nothing wrong with their 800 years of occupation of Ireland, the rest of us normal Gaels do.

    what does a "Normal Gael" look like?

    You may find yourselves out of touch there with a rather considerable number of our fellow "Gaels" because quite a lot of them still like to be associated with "That Lot", by either studying there, working there or attending a hospital there for a transplant.

    joining the commonwealth does not give the UK nor the monarch any form of control over Ireland and consists of some pretty heavyweight economies, such as Canada, Australia and India. Surely any ties to them is no bad thing?


  • #19
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    LordSutch wrote: »
    So Eamon Delaney joins Eamon De valera and a long line of Irish politicians who wants the ROI to rejoin the Commonwealth!

    Hardly newsworthy these days, and like many others I think we should never have left the Commonwealth in the 1st place, John A Costello has a lot to answer to. I also think that if we did rejoin, the message to Unionists would be akin to a friendly hand been offered across the border, and who knows . . . Maybe political unification would come a big step closer? I certainly can't see any downside to rejoining, specially now that we have discovered that the Queen is not a dragon, but a rather lovely person greatly admired by many in the ROI, as well as the UK and across the globe.

    Unfortunately she is a creature from an era where peoples titles and power are legally determined by what family they were born into: not a dragon but a dinosaur certainly.

    Friendship has to be extended both ways: irradicating sectarianism, and ensuring secularity and equality of esteem andf prosperity for all on both sides of the border will bring teh peopels of this country closer together.

    The idea that this country will only be united under some kind of British umbrella is a pipe dream.

    The revoking of articles 2 and 3 was a massive concession to Unionism and in my opinion unwarranted and unreciprocated. The unionists gained a lot using improved civil liverties for Catholics as a bargaining chip.


  • #20
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why a step backwards? There are a lot of countries commited to the commonwealth and a number applying to join. They obviously see the commonwealth as being advantages, why would it involve a step backwards for Ireland?

    Any countries similar to the republic of Ireland. i.e. any western European countries looking to join the British commonwealth?


  • #21
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    T runner wrote: »
    Any countries similar to the republic of Ireland. i.e. any western European countries looking to join the British commonwealth?

    the ones that are eligible are already members.


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  • #22
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    COYW wrote: »
    There are no economic negatives to it unless you are blinded by nationalism. The 800 year nonsense is the only reason nationalists ever come up with. Yet, they are more than happy the build stronger links with countries like China, who threat their own citizens so well, right ...... :rolleyes:

    I think we have all seen quite clearly how the UK has treated Irish people in Northern Ireland apparently "their own citizens".

    The economic arguments are not by any means clearcut. The only emerging economy in the common wealth may be India and I think we stand more to gain by our current position re. trade there.

    There is a lot more to a move like this than economics. You ahve to look at what a country stands for. After Independence we rightly took the independent approach of neutrality. We are not a warring country and the population here by and large believes in elected representatives and deplores Imperialism. This was the basis of our declaration of independence and that has been our philosophy through our peacekeeping efforts.

    The British state is a warring nation. Most recently the illegal war on Iraq was responsible for the deaths of arguably over 250,000 people.

    For this one reason alone we should not join any collaboration with Britain, especially one so linked with the British empire.

    This is just a case of national integrity.


  • #23
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    T runner wrote: »
    Any countries similar to the republic of Ireland. i.e. any western European countries looking to join the British commonwealth?
    They have to have an historic and constitutional link to the Commonwealth for eligibility, except in exceptional situations.


  • #24
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    the ones that are eligible are already members.

    Which European countries are members and what makes you eligeable? Do only countries subjected to British subjegation get this honour?


    And tell me this Fratton: If England had been occupied since Napoleanic times by a French Empire would you as an Englishman be arguing for England to re-enter some kind of Freanch imperial remnant? Might your English countrymen tell you to get to ****?

    Substitute Ireland and England with England and France and youll get your answer.


  • #25
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    later12 wrote: »
    They have to have an historic and constitutional link to the Commonwealth for eligibility, except in exceptional situations.

    The historic link in almost all cases being that they were colonised, occupied or annexed by the British Empire.

    Again, another reason on the basis of national integrity why this idea should be ruled out.


  • #26
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    T runner wrote: »
    The historic link in almost all cases being that they were colonised, occupied or annexed by the British Empire.

    Again, another reason on the basis of national integrity why this idea should be ruled out.
    Look you asked a question, there's your answer.

    The main argument against this seems to be emotive arguments as per the above, and I'm not convinced these can be logically addressed so...


  • #27
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    LordSutch wrote: »
    OK then, bye.

    Ah avoiding the question as to whether joining the commonwealth would truly be of benefit to Ireland or how joining would allow us do things that Ireland could not do without joining.

    I remember you and two others making unspecific claims about the "economic advantageous" but saying little.

    Next time, you express an opinion, stick to what You believe, and not assumptions of what others or most people would think


  • #28
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why a step backwards? There are a lot of countries commited to the commonwealth and a number applying to join. They obviously see the commonwealth as being advantages, why would it involve a step backwards for Ireland?

    A step back ward would be unfair, more of a side step.

    Ireland is in Europe. Most of the Commonwealth Countries (excluding Malta and Cyprus - which was pointed out to me previously) are not in the EU (though Cyprus and Malta only joined in 2007) Those countries needed the link more than Ireland.


  • #29
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    NinjaK wrote: »
    Because we were ruled by the Brits (our brothers in the North still are) and we dont want to connected with that lot again. You probably see nothing wrong with their 800 years of occupation of Ireland, the rest of us normal Gaels do.

    We are still connected to the UK via the European Union


  • #30
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    walrusgumble wrote: »
    A step back ward would be unfair, more of a side step.

    Ireland is in Europe. Most of the Commonwealth Countries (excluding Malta and Cyprus - which was pointed out to me previously) are not in the EU (though Cyprus and Malta only joined in 2007)
    Eh, surely that makes your argument redundant.

    If the commonwealth is a community of nations which Ireland is eligible to join, and which can be a useful vehicle for promoting trade and business links, and most of the members are non EU members, then that seems like a strong prima facie basis for seriously considering an application to join as these relationships (particularly those with the emerging economies) are not directly facilitated by our membership of the EU.


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  • #31
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    COYW wrote: »
    There are no economic negatives to it unless you are blinded by nationalism. The 800 year nonsense is the only reason nationalists ever come up with. Yet, they are more than happy the build stronger links with countries like China, who threat their own citizens so well, right ...... :rolleyes:

    Whatever about China, the British can never get on the high horse on how, historically, it treated its own citizens / subjects.

    800 year nonsense? Well, technically, I would only go back as far as 1790's when a movement actually sought to remove British influence and control . The Boyne 1690 etc should be ignored , they were fights for who got to be King of Ireland and England.

    There is no incentive's to joining either. We can do it ourselves. Actually, the only people who really want to join are probably those who have or want links to Britain. Too afraid to accept their own nationality perhaps? Some people still have family members, alive, who have legitimate issues with Britain.

    Links with China are money links, no one gives a flying feck what they do, so long as they keep it to themselves. Ireland' s link with Britain was not always voluntary.


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