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N6 Bodkin Roundabout (Headford Road) removal delayed until August

  • 03-04-2012 08:25AM
    #1
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭


    The contractor (Coffey I believe, though I can't find a link to the tender notice and the name isn't in the online article) has pulled out of this project, which was due to start yesterday.
    Hopes that the city would have a coordinated series of signalised junctions in time for the peak summer season received a fresh set-back yesterday when a contractor withdrew from plans to remove the city’s biggest roundabout on the Headford Road.

    The contractor pulled out of the project to convert the Bodkin Roundabout near the Galway Shopping Centre into a fully signalised junction just before work was due to commence on the site yesterday morning.

    So when the traffic control center opens in a couple of weeks up we will have 3 junctions on the N6/Bothat na dTreabh and possibly the moneen.

    Oh yeah, we're going to have a repeat of the fun of last August too.
    “Construction was due to commence on that site this morning. While we have full planning permission, we have decided not to proceed with this project immediately and are now looking at a start-up date in late August.”


Comments

  • #2
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,893 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Sounds rather odd. Why would a contractor do that? It's not like there's so much work floating around that they're mad busy.


  • #3
    ciotog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ciotog


    Poking around on tenders site, possibly the original here. http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=FEB200936 and this the new one: http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAR317635 (not 100%). There's also http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=DEC297676 . Of course none of that might be news to you, I also don't see anything on there to indicate who the award was to. It is strange alright that someone would pull out like that, I can't think of a way to find out as I presume a FOI request would be denied on commercial sensitivity grounds. I would expect it's an interesting story though :)


  • #4
    dloob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭dloob


    Maybe there was a clause they didn't know about that wouldn't let them run it way over schedule and budget.


  • #5
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    ciotog wrote: »
    Poking around on tenders site, possibly the original here. http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=FEB200936 and this the new one: http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAR317635 (not 100%). There's also http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=DEC297676 . Of course none of that might be news to you, I also don't see anything on there to indicate who the award was to. It is strange alright that someone would pull out like that, I can't think of a way to find out as I presume a FOI request would be denied on commercial sensitivity grounds. I would expect it's an interesting story though :)

    Totally anecdotally but a few weeks ago I was talking to a guy who worked on Briarhill (Maddens) who said that they only got the first one and Coffey were the preferred bidder for the rest.
    JustMary wrote: »
    Sounds rather odd. Why would a contractor do that? It's not like there's so much work floating around that they're mad busy.

    Assuming my information is correct, I'd question how Coffey can do a 4th major scheme in Galway right when they're making a mess of the first three (SQR, Tuam resurfacing and Font/Morris).


  • #6
    ciotog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ciotog


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Totally anecdotally but a few weeks ago I was talking to a guy who worked on Briarhill (Maddens) who said that they only got the first one and Coffey were the preferred bidder for the rest.
    Continuing the anecdotal theme, Maddens (I believe) did resurfacing work in the IDA Park in Dangan recently. FWIW it seems like good quality work, from an untrained eye at least: the interfaces between what they did and what they weren't working on are smooth, the drains and various manhole covers are finished flush with the road and the road itself is very smooth - overall the difference makes for very pleasant cycling (no nasty surprises anymore). People seemed to be happy overall with the way they did Briarhill so you'd have to wonder why they aren't getting more of the work.


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  • #7
    Private Joker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Private Joker


    Coffeys are getting all the work because its the lowest tender wins. The NRA have no stipulation in their contracts for performance on previous contracts.

    This is so wrong, if i was awarding contracts i would not have Coffeys get any contracts. you wouldn't give a plasterer a job in ur own house if you heard it took him twice as long as it should have done and cost twice the price in a job he done down the road in a neighbours house, and you definitely wouldn't get him to plaster the garage after a previous bad experience.

    Galway city council cant be blamed for this shambles.


  • #8
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,893 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Assuming my information is correct, I'd question how Coffey can do a 4th major scheme in Galway right when they're making a mess of the first three (SQR, Tuam resurfacing and Font/Morris).

    How are they making a mess of Font / Morris?

    How can they be blamed for the council not getting the land acquisitions in Westside right before the project started?

    How do you know that the need to replace an additional sewer (public reason for some of the delays) was their fault?


  • #9
    ciotog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ciotog


    Private Joker wrote: »
    Coffeys are getting all the work because its the lowest tender wins. The NRA have no stipulation in their contracts for performance on previous contracts.

    This is so wrong, if i was awarding contracts i would not have Coffeys get any contracts. you wouldn't give a plasterer a job in ur own house if you heard it took him twice as long as it should have done and cost twice the price in a job he done down the road in a neighbours house, and you definitely wouldn't get him to plaster the garage after a previous bad experience.

    Galway city council cant be blamed for this shambles.
    The award criteria on one of those is:

    Award Criteria
    A) Lowest Price No
    B) The most economically advantageous tender in terms of:

    B1) Criteria as stated in contract documents: Yes

    B2) Criteria as stated below: No
    Criteria Weighting

    So it's not like they can't look at past performance ...


  • #10
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Galway -> Infrastructure.
    Currently only roadwork ongoing or starting very soon can be discussed in Galway.
    Future roadworks pushed to Infrastructure.


  • #11
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    JustMary wrote: »
    How are they making a mess of Font / Morris?

    One of the stipulations for this was no lane closures during certain times - which they are ignoring. Progress seems to be a lot worse than it was for briarhill, I only get to see it every fortnight so I'm shocked at how slowly they're going compared to briarhill (where you could see a lot more progress).
    JustMary wrote: »
    How can they be blamed for the council not getting the land acquisitions in Westside right before the project started?

    How do you know that the need to replace an additional sewer (public reason for some of the delays) was their fault?

    For trusting them in the first place. Any good engineer does their due diligence work. This is especially true for areas dating back as far as the 50s because planning laws only came into force here in the 60s (1964 I think).

    I remember hearing that the city council were planning on realigning the parkmore road through western motors - because it wasn't on their map. WM was only built in the 90's ffs.

    Coffeys should have known not to trust the council.

    Maddens learned and the first thing they did was bring ground penetrating radar to Briarhill to make sure they weren't going to get any nasty shocks.


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  • #12
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Some more information on this from the Galway independent

    It appears that the (unnamed) chosen contractor notified the City Council in late February that they wouldn't be able proceed and the council couldn't get a replacement with 4-5 weeks notice.

    They're now planning to do this and the Kirwan Junction in late August/September.

    I particularly like the hint of denial in the last bit:
    Dismissing fears that synchronised works may have a detrimental impact on local traffic flow, Mr Hayes said he is confident that this would be the best way to complete the works and cited the current improvement works on the Font and Morris Roundabout as a successful example.

    My father & brother work in Mervue Industrial estate and would normally use one or other of these junctions. The works are going so well they don't use them any more.


  • #13
    Private Joker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Private Joker


    ciotog wrote: »
    The award criteria on one of those is:

    Award Criteria
    A) Lowest Price No
    B) The most economically advantageous tender in terms of:

    B1) Criteria as stated in contract documents: Yes

    B2) Criteria as stated below: No
    Criteria Weighting

    So it's not like they can't look at past performance ...

    True to an extent, but the criteria is done on rates paid to craftspersons, foremen apprentices , delay rates and deductions for plant and material.

    The NRA have a framework of qualified contractors for each region, those contractors have to be sent out tenders and the lowest comparative price must be awarded the contract. The NRA should not have qualified coffeys based on past performance.


  • #14
    black47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    Folks, I have occasion to drive on the outskirts of galway heading on to Mayo and have always passed through these roundabouts. Forgive me if I can't remember the names. Currently I go in as far as the last roundabout before the headford road roundabout, then take the third exit and turn left passing a small country school ending up on the headford road.

    Is it fair to say that once all these roundabout works are completed I should be able to zoom through with the minimum delay and forget using my current rat run?


  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Zoom might be a bit optimistic - you should flow more smoothly though.

    The real solution to your problem would be the Galway city outer bypass.

    The rat run you are describing is Castlegar village.

    Edit: They aren't signaled roundabouts - the roundabouts are being removed and replaced by traffic light junctions.


  • #16
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The one in the title is part signallled. For anyone reading this we are talking about Galways Dunkettle or Mad Cow equivalent. If it locks the whole town locks.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Bodkin isnt signalled, unless you are talking about the pedistrian crossings off the roundabout?


  • #18
    yer man!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Bodkin isnt signalled, unless you are talking about the pedistrian crossings off the roundabout?
    Bodkin is signalized, this is the one beside Galway shopping centre. The one you're thinking of is the Kirwan roundabout.


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ive lived in Galway most of my life and I still get confused with the different names


  • #20
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ive lived in Galway most of my life and I still get confused with the different names

    Yeah we should dump the new names that never stuck and just use Terryland and Ballinfoyle (screw the google maps brigade)


  • #21
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    It appears that councillor shouty (padraig conneely) is doing what he does best and going off on one over this. For once I'm in agreement with him. The council officials found out about this in February but said nothing until earlier this week (presumably after someone notice that works hadn't started on time).

    There was a city council meeting and the meeting regarding the Ballinfoyle/Kirwan RAB removal in this time, during which no mention was made of the withdrawal of the contractor.

    Oh yeah we found out who got this contract - Roadstone.

    Council slammed for roundabout fiasco
    City officials have been called on to explain why they failed to reveal a contractor’s decision to withdraw from a project to convert Galway’s biggest roundabout into a signalised junction for five weeks.

    Roadstone’s withdrawal from the contract to upgrade the Bodkin Roundabout, near the Galway Shopping Centre, was conveyed to senior officials as far back as February 24 but only emerged through our sister paper, the Sentinel, on Tuesday.

    Officials made no reference to the enforced delay to the project during a public meeting on the roundabouts issue attended by over 200 people at the Pillo Hotel over two weeks ago, nor at the Galway City Council meeting of March 12.

    The officials did not reveal the enforced delay to the Bodkin Roundabout when they agreed to bow to ‘people power’ by abandoning plans for the Kirwan Roundabout, near the Menlo Park Hotel, even though they were aware of Roadstone’s decision for more than two weeks at that stage.

    Any enforced delay to the Bodkin Roundabout change-over was never mentioned at the public meeting, even though the Council had decided to put work back to late August or early September in order to avoid the peak tourist season.

    “Here was a very serious issue on a very serious subject and there was no mention of it either at the Council meeting on March 12 or the public meeting on March 20, even though the contractor pulled out on February 24,” said Cllr Padraig Conneely (FG) yesterday.

    “I think it is very insulting to the elected members, and to the people who attended that public meeting that the first they heard of this was when they read it in the Sentinel on Tuesday.”

    He accused the city officials of “sitting on the issue” for the past five weeks and pointed out that the conversion of the Bodkin Roundabout was mentioned several times during the meeting about the Kirwan Roundabout.


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  • #22
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    This is standard practice for Ciaran Hayes and his subordinates. In 2009, I was a member of a community forum delegation that met Mr. Hayes and his officials on a Wednesday to discuss our vision for how walking and cycling could be promoted in the city.

    The following Friday, there was an ad in the paper advising that the council had appointed consultants to draft a walking and cycling strategy for the city and announcing an associated consultation process.

    This little factoid was never mentioned once at the meeting two days previously - and the ad had to have already been with the paper at that point.


  • #23
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    I also understand that the withdrawal of the contractor was not revealed to the City Council Transport Committee at their last meeting on 27/03/2012. Both Ciaran Hayes and Joe Tansey attended that meeting and made presentations on other matters.


  • #24
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    This is standard practice for Ciaran Hayes and his subordinates. In 2009, I was a member of a community forum delegation that met Mr. Hayes and his officials on a Wednesday to discuss our vision for how walking and cycling could be promoted in the city.

    The following Friday, there was an ad in the paper advising that the council had appointed consultants to draft a walking and cycling strategy for the city and announcing an associated consultation process.

    This little factoid was never mentioned once at the meeting two days previously - and the ad had to have already been with the paper at that point.




    They may be resorting to some public service version of that clever Catholic doctrine of "mental reservation". Local government bureaucrats and bishops may have something in common.

    Then again, local government mandarins are just unelected politicians. It is pretty much standard practice in Irish politics (and all politics?) to give the bare minimum information required to answer a question but to disclose nothing else, no matter how important, interesting or relevant those other facts might be. Ray Burke and John Bruton put it this way several years ago: you have to ask "the right question". If you don't ask the right question at the right time, and important information is therefore not disclosed, then it's your fault.

    Unfortunately it's often very difficult to ask the right question unless you already happen to know the answer. Perhaps this deeply ingrained culture explains why we have had so many lengthy and hugely expensive tribunals in this country.


  • #25
    El_Dangeroso
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    I initially posted this on the kirwan roundabout thread was directed to this one:

    Does anyone know from these plans how people will get out of the Gort and Dun na Coiribe complexes?

    I've looked at the plans a few times and can't figure out how I will get from Gort na Coiribe to knocknacarra without the kirwan roundabout to make a u-turn on.


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/281011_02.pdf
    Check out page five of the above - the exit from Dunnes and the estates will be changed.


  • #27
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Yeah we should dump the new names that never stuck and just use Terryland and Ballinfoyle (screw the google maps brigade)

    I think they should continue the M6 junction numbering all the way across the City on the N6 to the Corrib Park roundabout and maybe even along the SQR/BOD/Threadneedle Roads also.


  • #28
    yer man!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    KevR wrote: »
    I think they should continue the M6 junction numbering all the way across the City on the N6 to the Corrib Park roundabout and maybe even along the SQR/BOD/Threadneedle Roads also.

    Well that would probably be saved for the bypass as that could be called the N6 unless they call it something new.


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