TOYOTA STARLET AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT NO COLLISION

Gizzer24 · 27-03-2012 06:00PM #1

Hi guys first time poster looking for info and help.

I have a 1997 toyota starlet with very low miles (irish car), it is always maintained and nct`d to date, 1000 miles ago.
Basically i was driving down the Fonthill Road last week after finishing the gym, went around one roundabout and BOOM airbag went off in my face, i managed to get the car to the side of the road safely and get out to let the dust and smoke escape

I called Toyota Ireland a few days later and asked them if this has ever happened before under no impact and they said no.He organised for my car to be booked in and inspected into a local toyota dealership.
they took the car into Carroll and Kinsella in Walkinstown and inspected the car.

They had the car for 2 days and got back to me and said that there was some marks underneath where it had been scracthed either from hitting the road or something else, i told him that myself and my wife had purchased the car about 2 yrs ago and the car has never been in any collison and has passed nct with no problems.

He then told me that Toyota do not want to deal with the matter any further, so i asked him was i to blame for the airbag going off? and he replyed that i shouldnt be putting words into his mouth and he is not there to blame anyone nor is he blaming me but he said that the car had come into some contact and thats the reason why the bag went off , this left me confused as I was the driver but yet he wasnt blaming me nor the car?????
I then told him that I had someone in the car with me and that there was no contact at all from my end nor my wife, so he told me to claim this from my insurance and he wasnt going to deal with it any further

I basically asked toyota ireland to look into the reason why it had detonated and that im lucky my wife was not driving it with my daughter at the time, im not looking for compensation at all, im looking for the reason why it went off, not an easy excuse on a "scratch" underneath to lay the blame on, and this is from a toyota expert in the business 15+ years!!

anybody have any paths i can search into or go about into getting the right result or investigation
im worried if i get it fixed it will happen with my wife in it,

colm_mcm · 27-03-2012 06:04PM

To be fair, the car is 15 years old

Far as I know these have some older mechanical system for the airbag. You just need to chalk it down to experience and move on,

Far as I know, airbags have a Best before date, I'm sure it's less than 15 years, if you're going to go legal on this it's worth checking this first.

Guy:Incognito · 27-03-2012 06:07PM

Not quite the same thing but I remember reading something about airbags generally only being good for about 12 years.

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-03-2012 06:08PM

Sounds more like they guy wanted to check it out, find some innocent reason for the malfunction, found something he didn't like whatsoever and decided to deny and stonewall, hoping you will let this go and they won't face any claims/bad press.
Otherwise why the dodgy behavior?
If he had a good explanation he wouldn't need to stonewall you.
Or he is just incredibly bad at PR and has no people skills.
Also, airbag will not go off from a scratch, there will have to be a substantial collision with some serious metal damage.

colm_mcm · 27-03-2012 06:10PM

Why would C&K lie?

Maybe the op should employ an independant automotive engineer to examine the car

Or just move on

Gizzer24 · 27-03-2012 06:12PM

i understand car is 15 yrs old, but im not and i repeat im not looking for compensation, but only the ACTUAL reason why the bag went off not and not excuses because he found some evidence of damage underneath, im worried if i fix it that it will happen again to my wife and child

i called toyota and toyota called me to bring in my car to see what happened
but all i was giving was excuses but yet legally my car was deemed safe to drive 1000 miles ago in NCT???

"best built cars in the world" allegedly

Leonard Hofstadter · 27-03-2012 06:16PM

I know on some cars the airbags are supposed to be replaced after a certain period of time (usually 10 years). The original Volvo S40 springs to mind from memory.

Could it simply be the case here that the airbags should have been replaced after 10 years, but weren't?

In relation to the NCT (since you've brought it up twice now), it is NOT a certificate to say that the car is somehow 100% perfect. It is simply a certificate to say that the car has a certain standard of roadworthiness (and not a very high standard either).

CJhaughey · 27-03-2012 06:17PM

My T22 Avensis has a sign on the sunshade that says the Airbag has to be serviced after 10 years and then every 2 years after that.
I wonder does your Starlet have the same interval?

Pottler · 27-03-2012 06:22PM

Gizzer24 wrote: »

i understand car is 15 yrs old, but im not and i repeat im not looking for compensation, but only the ACTUAL reason why the bag went off not and not excuses because he found some evidence of damage underneath, im worried if i fix it that it will happen again to my wife and child

i called toyota and toyota called me to bring in my car to see what happened
but all i was giving was excuses but yet legally my car was deemed safe to drive 1000 miles ago in NCT???

"best built cars in the world" allegedly

considering the cars 15 years old and that airbags are electrically triggered regardless of the collision sensors fitted, I'd imagine wires chafed somwhere in the system and the bag deployed due to a short. Do wonders for your confidence next time you are going round a roundabout anyway!

colm_mcm · 27-03-2012 06:23PM

Far as I know the airbag in the starlet is self contained and has no external electrics.
Ie it's totally mechanical, there's an inertia switch which triggers the explosion.

Gizzer24 · 27-03-2012 06:37PM

but not once did this toyota expert suggest the airbag unit was probably in order of replacement due to age, nor did he mention if the car had any history in any irish toyota dealership whether it had airbag replacements in the past

as regards to the nct i know the standard is low but why im refering to them is because that if there was any considerable damage to the underside of the vehicle then it would have been brought to my attention,
to be honest i probably would have been happier if he told me the reason it went off is because of the age factor more so than the small amount of scratch damage underneath

plus his demeanor was quite blunt and pointless with no back up plan, i just didnt understand him at times in his ways of explanations and theories

so all im asking if there is someone on here who works in the motor trade and understands the law side of it, i just want an answer why it went off, and if i fix it with a new one will it be safe to travel in again? and what can i say to these guys who know it all to source the REAL reason for deployment

andyseadog · 27-03-2012 08:28PM

questions for the OP.

what do you want to get from this?

if you want to find out why the airbag went off why don't you book it into a garage?

why do you thing toyota ireland should be responsible for investigating it for free? (maybe if the car was within their warranty but after 15 years and countless miles your lucky they entertained you at all)

why are you not satisfied with toyota irelands response?

what makes you thing NCT's examined the airbag in depth?

and moreso what makes you think that its condition couldn't have detiorated in the mean time?

it is not beyond reasonable doubt you stumbled upon a bump in the road the wrong way (not even a large one), activated the inertia switch and the airbag went off. terrible luck, but one of the most likely outcomes here really.

in my opinion its very naive of you to thing that this is toyota irelands problem to fix.

johnayo · 27-03-2012 08:41PM

I expect Toyota were vague with you because they were not to know what your next move was(compensation claim).
You should contact an independent motor assessor to check it out and see if you can get answers.

andyseadog · 27-03-2012 08:46PM

johnayo wrote: »

I expect Toyota were vague with you because they were not to know what your next move was(compensation claim).
You should contact an independent motor assessor to check it out and see if you can get answers. have a 15 year old starlet, a reliable if dull little car. spend €50 euro on a second hand airbag, chance your luck and move on. or if you have no confidence in the cars ability to protect your family, change it.

fixed your post.

edit : there are young lads on toyotaownersclub-irl that are dismantling starlets that cant give standard steering wheels away, you'l get a replacement airbag for feck all.

johnayo · 27-03-2012 08:48PM

andyseadog wrote: »

fixed your post.

Good man. That's what I meant to say.:D

MarkR · 27-03-2012 08:48PM

Any part can fail over time, and while alarming to think that a critical piece of safety equipment can fail, it's not possible for it to be 100% unless there is live updates from the car to the manufacturer at all times.

Something on a 15 year old car broke. It happens. If it was traction control, or abs, or a seatbelt jammed you wouldn't be thinking twice about ringing Mr Toyota.

All you can really do is suck it up and see if the fault is with the old airbag, or some other fault in the car causing the airbag to deploy.

Glad you were ok.

andyseadog · 27-03-2012 08:50PM

johnayo wrote: »

Good man. That's what I meant to say.:D

sorry, all in banter

johnayo · 27-03-2012 08:53PM

andyseadog wrote: »

sorry, all in banter

Appreciate that. Notice the smiley.:D

dr.fuzzenstein · 27-03-2012 08:59PM

Me bet is that if Toyota had said "it's a 15 year old airbag and they're only good for 10" the OP might have said fair enough.
It's more the manner of the response, it would have made me suspicious as well.
PR not their strong suit I'd say.

Mech1 · 27-03-2012 09:19PM

Just everyone hang on a min and humour me.

Just say that the OP was doing 120Kph as is allowed on some of our motorways, in the outside lane overtaking a coach full of school kids in the middle lane. Airbag deploys (for no reason other than being old and the OP doesnt know to change it), OP hits the central barrier and bounces off into the path of the coach. Coach swerves loses control hits a artic truck in the inside lane, coach topples gets pushed to hard shoulder by artic. 10 kids / 1 teacher / artic driver all dead.

Who's to blame?

andyseadog · 27-03-2012 09:26PM

Mech1 wrote: »

Just everyone hang on a min and humour me.

Just say that the OP was doing 120Kph as is allowed on some of our motorways, in the outside lane overtaking a coach full of school kids in the middle lane. Airbag deploys (for no reason other than being old and the OP doesnt know to change it), OP hits the central barrier and bounces off into the path of the coach. Coach swerves loses control hits a artic truck in the inside lane, coach topples gets pushed to hard shoulder by artic. 10 kids / 1 teacher / artic driver all dead.

Who's to blame?

certainly not toyota ireland.

also i appreciate his scenario could have been much worse but all we can do is thank god or appreciate luck that it wasn't.

question to you, would your story have held as much sway if the bus had have been filled with middle aged people as opposed to school children?

Mech1 · 27-03-2012 09:31PM

Yes , Why not? why not a cattle truck full of cows on the way to the abattoir. Injured and dead cattle all over the M50.

andyseadog · 27-03-2012 09:32PM

Mech1 wrote: »

Yes , Why not? why not a cattle truck full of cows on the way to the abattoir. Injured and dead cattle all over the M50.

he'd be grand, sure his airbag would be out

kirving · 27-03-2012 09:40PM

Well, it's up to the driver to ensure all manufacturer remmomended services are carried out. Same goes for perished tyres, rused chassis, corroded brake lines.

Was the sensor ever damaged, even by a previous owner? Would a seperate electrical fault have set off the airbag? Did a stone hit the sensor? There are lots of reasons it could happen.

To be honest, I really wouldn't think it would go off like that, and I'd be as annoyed as yourself if it happenned to me. But, it is a 15 year old car which may have suffered any amount of untold damage before you bought it.

Mech1 · 27-03-2012 09:49PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Well, it's up to the driver to ensure all manufacturer remmomended services are carried out. Same goes for perished tyres, rused chassis, corroded brake lines.

Was the sensor ever damaged, even by a previous owner? Would a seperate electrical fault have set off the airbag? Did a stone hit the sensor? There are lots of reasons it could happen.

To be honest, I really wouldn't think it would go off like that, and I'd be as annoyed as yourself if it happenned to me. But, it is a 15 year old car which may have suffered any amount of untold damage before you bought it.

I totally agree but it seems Toyota are not making the expected (required I would say) effort to get to the bottom of the situation / fault. It wouldnt be the first time Manufacturers have considered recall costs versus insurance claim costs.

I would approach toyota again with a list of questions.

Mech1 · 27-03-2012 09:52PM

Question 1: What are the service requirements of my airbag. and where are these requirements published?

eth0 · 27-03-2012 10:47PM

An airbag going off like that could end badly and 15 years is nothing for a car these days. If it doesn't last 20 with a bit of looking after I'd call it a heap of shoite.

Airbags are not supposed to just go off without a serious crash, incidents like this only scare people into buying a new car and replacing a perfectly good one because its old, or servicing at main dealers which is a rip off. I'm starting to get fierce weary of airbags and a lot of the other safety features that have been foist upon us over the past few years

Anan1 · 27-03-2012 10:51PM

Years ago when I worked for a well-known Dublin VAG dealership we had a new Audi A8 come back with no visible damage, front & rear passenger side airbags out and the owners wife screaming blue murder about lawsuits and the rest. The car was put up on a ramp, and guess what? As in the OP's case, the owner was politely told to FO.

colm_mcm · 27-03-2012 11:01PM

eth0 wrote: »

An airbag going off like that could end badly and 15 years is nothing for a car these days. If it doesn't last 20 with a bit of looking after I'd call it a heap of shoite.

Airbags are not supposed to just go off without a serious crash, incidents like this only scare people into buying a new car and replacing a perfectly good one because its old, or servicing at main dealers which is a rip off. I'm starting to get fierce weary of airbags and a lot of the other safety features that have been foist upon us over the past few years

When's the last time you heard of something like this happening though?

eth0 · 27-03-2012 11:02PM

colm_mcm wrote: »

When's the last time you heard of something like this happening though?

A few months ago

colm_mcm · 27-03-2012 11:04PM

Another starlet I suppose?

TOYOTA STARLET AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT NO COLLISION

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