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Some Mame and Hyperspin n00bish queries

  • 26-03-2012 02:18PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭


    Hi guys,
     
    As some of you are probably aware from my other posts I intend to get a Candy Cab and get MAME hooked up.
     
    While I waiting to get a few coppers together for the cab, I want to start getting other bits and pieces together, namely MAME, Hypersin and a PC.
    I have some queries about these so if anyone can enlighten and give me their tuppence worth that would be great. I know there is lots here but even if you can just answer ceratin parts, I'll compile it all myself.
     
    MAME:
    I have an old romset, version 125 I think it is. Is it worth my while going about updating the roms and CHDs to the latest 145 and running mame 145?
    I read somewhere that from MAME v145 on, the format of CHDs has been changed. Is this correct and how will this affect my existing romset?
    It is several years since I last tinkered with Mame on my PC. Back then there were a good few games not running - the likes of Tekken for example. Has this been resolved?
    Are newer games like Street Fighter 4 possible?
     
    PC
    In terms of putting a PC together. What sort of specs should I aiming for. I presume the usual faster processor, more ram, bigger harddrive, getter gfx card holds true but what is and acceptable but cheap(ish) level of specs.
    E.g.
    would a p4 with 2gb ram suffice to run games released up to the year 2000
    an i5 with 6gb ram and high end gfx would run everything (assuming support in MAME)
     
    Hyperspin
    I have downloaded Hypersin and am testing it on my main PC (prior to getting a dedicated one). It seems to be up and running with some MAME roms so it seems ok to that end. I've also donated to the forum so I can dl all themes and artwork etc.
     
    I found a guide on there that shows how to make hyperspin boot automatically on powering on the pc. Can the reverse be done for exiting Hyperspin/ PC shutdown? I can't seem to find anything on that.
     
    MAME/Hyperspin
    Assuming I have a 6 button control panel, does the button layout need to be mapped for each individual game? How is that done - through MAME?
    Does that mean although I would have the PC hidden in the cab, I would still need a keyboard and mouse to make adjustments like this everything I load a game for the first time.
    (May not be an issue for games that only use one or two buttons but I am thinking of fighters where button layout is more important)
     
    Thanks again.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,732 ✭✭✭The Last Bandit


    Mame:
    Not sure, I running 144 I think and have pretty much all the stuff I want on it so not bothering to upgrade ever..

    PC:
    People tend to over spec PC's from what I've seen particularly when HyperSpin is used. Saying that a P4 is pretty old now and might struggle a bit. I'm using an i3 mini-itx in my latest and runs everything I've thrown at it.

    HyperSpin:
    You can call an application when exiting HyperSpin, you could for instance just create and call a batch file to shutdown the OS using the "shutdown" command. I would not recommend this though, I call explorer on mine so if I ever have to tinker with the box I have easy access to a working windows desktop and use the a push button to start/stop the box.

    MAME:
    You can define custom inputs for each game by starting them up and working thru the MAME menus or editing the settings file for each game ahead of time. Its a bit tedious alright, remember have to change a load of them before mostly driving games to map the throttle/brakes and gear changes.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 5,408 Mod ✭✭✭✭Optimus Prime



    HyperSpin:
    You can call an application when exiting HyperSpin, you could for instance just create and call a batch file to shutdown the OS using the "shutdown" command. I would not recommend this though, I call explorer on mine so if I ever have to tinker with the box I have easy access to a working windows desktop and use the a push button to start/stop the box.

    Theres an option in Hyperspin settings to shut down the pc on exit from hyperspin, i have it set in mine, if i need to do anything on the pc i just close hyperspin with task manager.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    Thanks lads, some good stuff there to start me off

    Bandit, did you buy your mini itx or build it yourself?

    Keithgeo, how do you exit hyperspin without using a keyboard I.e. joystick and buttons only


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    As keithgeo says there's an option in HS to shutdown the OS on exit, works fine. Regarding Mame, you can go into the general settings and set the mappings for all games there.

    You can assign buttons to trigger the HS Exit event.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 5,408 Mod ✭✭✭✭Optimus Prime


    On my cab I have holdplayer1 plus hit button set to esc i think, i think thats you i did it, so if i hold player1 and press button 1 it goes backwards and then asks if you want to exit hyperspin. another button is set to enter so i just hit that.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Steve X2


    MAME:
    I use 145 on my rig but also have 143 there if I ever want to switch back(takes 20 seconds to switch).

    PC:
    As powerful as you can get it but remember MAME doesn't really utilise the graphics card so its all down to the CPU. If you run other emulators for consoles etc the graphics card will be used on them usually. You'll want at least a dual core cpu or if you can get an i3 or better(but 3ghz dual core will be fine for MAME).
    MY Hyperspin pc is fairly high spec but I'm just a freak about these things so I wouldn't recommend going to the same expense as I did.

    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    Thanks guys. Some great advice there. Exactly what I was looking for.

    Steve si, when you say you have mame 143 and 145 do you mean both the application and romsets or do you just have the one romset and two versions of the application?

    Also, can anyone clarify the supposed issue with chd format in 145?

    Thanks again guys!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Steve X2


    Thanks guys. Some great advice there. Exactly what I was looking for.

    Steve si, when you say you have mame 143 and 145 do you mean both the application and romsets or do you just have the one romset and two versions of the application?

    Also, can anyone clarify the supposed issue with chd format in 145?

    Thanks again guys!

    I have both the full romset, chd's and nonag MAME emulator for both 143 and 145. A quick change in hyperhq and I can switch if I ever come across any problems or compatibility issues in 145(I haven't yet).

    As for the CHD files changing format. I'm not really sure as the format seems the same but the process for reading them might have changed a bit. I always download a fresh MAME romset and all CHD files for each full revision of the emulator(142, 143, 144, 145 but not 143u1/u2/u3 etc).
    Fast broadband and extreme fussiness has made me that way :D

    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    I'd love to be able to download the full set as I'm fussy too but a 2mb eircom line puts a stop to all of that!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Steve X2


    I'd love to be able to download the full set as I'm fussy too but a 2mb eircom line puts a stop to all of that!

    Get a 100Mb broadband line and your problems are solved :)

    A 2Mb line is still ok to do it if you don't mind waiting buts its probably your monthly download limit that will cause issues with Eircom.

    .


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭aN.Droid


    I'd love to be able to download the full set as I'm fussy too but a 2mb eircom line puts a stop to all of that!

    I downloaded my first mame set on eircom 2 mb all those years ago :)

    Downloading from a well know mame torrent site (google it, 4th link when I search for mame torrent site) I got full speed back then and everytime I have gone back to them (over 300gb uploaded) the speed is pretty much constantly high and I am on 100mb UPC now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    I'm down in the sticks lads. Eircom 2mb is my only option. It is unlimited download thought.

    Trust me I've investigated all options or lack there of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭aN.Droid


    I'm down in the sticks lads. Eircom 2mb is my only option. It is unlimited download thought.

    Trust me I've investigated all options or lack there of.

    Well if its unlimited download it! It will take some time but so what :P google what I said to look for and its the fourth link for a handy site. if you cant find it PM me and I will help.

    I would post it here but its against the charter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭KeRbDoG


    I'd love to be able to download the full set as I'm fussy too but a 2mb eircom line puts a stop to all of that!

    You could get someone to burn you a set. I'm sure someone here on Boards might do it for you either, prob not burn but a 'send me a HDD and I will sort you out'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    Thanks kerbdog. I had considered those options alright.

    I'm in no hurry to get the romset as it will be a few months before I get cash together for the cab anyway.

    I presume if a new mame update comes out I can download the update pack and merge with existing full set using clrmame?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Steve SI wrote: »
    As for the CHD files changing format. I'm not really sure as the format seems the same but the process for reading them might have changed a bit

    There has been a change in the format, & either a redownload or a conversion with CHDMAN is the way to get them working again.
    Unfortunately as part of the process the SHA1s for CHDs with older style metadata did change, although this only really affects MAME because all the CHDs supported in MESS were created with newer CHDMAN versions which already had the newer style metadata. This is something of an inconvenience and means ~200 SHA1s will need updating in MAME, forcing people to use V5 if they want to avoid SHA1 error reports. This is a shame because ideally I wanted the changes to be entirely optional so that people could simply stick with V4 if it suited them better but Aaron clearly had different ideas and wanted to ditch the legacy metadata.

    http://mamedev.emulab.it/haze/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    Thanks guys. Might wait for version 146 to land so and just get a fresh set altogether


  • Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hey, just saw this thread now, sorry for the late post.

    As has been posted, you can config all your buttons in one go in mame, or set specific ones per game. Just hit tab then "input this game" or "input all games" while a rom is running.

    With regard to setting buttons, it's good to sit down and figure out what different system emulators you need and which of the available ones will allow you to remap all their buttons and GUI inputs. You don't want conflicts in your setup. You want your encoder to have a dedicated set of key mappings that don't change, and all of your emulators to be able to be configured to use those keys for all the important functions, so it's important to use emulators that are fairly customizable.

    All the officially supported hyperspin emulators are the ones to go for for that reason, but read up on zsnes (different versions have different levels of options) and nestopia (some funny gui options that need tweaking to hide menu bars, cursors, etc) if you plan to use nintendo roms.

    If you're just using Mame though, it's totally your preference, but a lot of people have said mame reached a sweet spot and then started getting worse with every update, breaking more stuff than it fixed. I think i'm using 1.41 and it's great, but i know i have an incomplete set, as i've stripped out a lot of the crap ones, bootlegs, mahjongs, adult ones (kids in the house, etc). I'm sure someone on the board would be able to "help" you with your rom problems, but let's say no more on this for fear of breaching charter rules.

    Whereabouts in the country are you located?

    With regard to booting up and powering down, get this bit right, it makes a huge difference to your finished cab, but needs a bit of planning. If you use windows XP as your OS and have SP3 you can use instantsheller.exe to easily boot into hyperspin. Quicksheller works too, but instantsheller is way more reliable and easier to use in my experience, and has a better GUI and options, and a more reliable undo feature. It works on vista as well i think, but trust me, you DON'T want vista anywhere near your cab.

    to hide your windows environment you'll need:
    Stardocs bootskin.exe (if you want a custom bootskin with an animated/moving progress bar)
    Instantsheller.exe (to change the shell application, change cursor schemes, change sounds, wallpaper, etc.

    Both are available on the hyperspin forumns resources area or on emumovies.com (i think).

    To disable password on boot you need to go to start>run and type "control userpasswords2" exactly as it is here (without quotes) to get the windows user accounts password utility. Take a look at the options there and knock off your password.

    Also, when you boot into hyperspin as your shell, your startup folder won't work in windows (i found that out the hard way)so you'll need to use the "startup program" feature of hyperspin for anything that you need to run in the background in addition to the frontend. It's somewhere in the general settings in Hyper HQ. I have a small freeware app called "volumetray.exe" in there, that lets me assign hotkeys to various volume control functions. I've then mapped these to some of the shifted keys on my interface board so i can control the volume level or mute sounds from the control panel. I've heard that hyperspin V2.0 may get a volume control, but i couldn't be bothered waiting for it to come out and don't like untested X.0 version releases anyway, so i used a workaround.

    Set your options in hyper HQ to shut down windows on exiting hyperspin. If you need to config the PC or make any changes after you've shelled, you can just use ctrl+alt+delete to call up task manager, run new task, and start explorer.exe to get the windows environment back. It's also a good option to map that key combination to a shifted button on your panel if your encoder supports it.

    One last tip, there's an option in windows that show you the location of the cursor when you press ctrl. You can switch it on in the mouse and pointer options in control panel, and it's handy to see where the cursor is if you've turned it into a dot (one of the options in instantsheller.exe) for doing any extended admin work. Be aware though, that mame's default key scheme uses ctrl also, so you'll probably want to either change that, or switch off the "show mouse" option when you're done messing around with the PC (you don't want your cursor flashing away in mid-game)

    How is the project coming along? Am looking forward to seeing pics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    Hey lads, thanks for all advice and encouragement so far. Progress is very slow but as mentioned before, I have a newborn in the house. Still, most things are underway to some degree.

    MAME PC
    Need to get a dedicated pc for MAME. My mate has some pc parts lying about so I plan to take these off his hands. Processor is dual core or quad core 64 bit Intel based. Knowing my mate, I'd be confident that any parts he has are high spec, relative for their time. My plan is to run Windows 7 64 bit on this. I realize that a core i5 or i7 would be the best thing but these parts should cost me nothing and suffice for the moment.

    MAME/Hyperspin
    As I don't have a dedicated machine yet I have installed Hyperspin and MAME on my only pc as a test. I have the full rom set and CHDs for MAME 125 so that's what I have going at the moment. I also donated to Hyperspin to get themes etc. Will sign up to Emumovies next month and get all that.

    Currently acquiring MAME 145 roms too but wont bother with CHDs. When MAME 146 comes out and the CHD format situation has settled I'll update to that.

    Have Hyperspin and MAME more or less working to my satisfaction. Just a case of transferring to dedicated pc and sorting startup and shutdown events.

    I have a couple of queries to get Hyperspin configured exactly to my liking but I'll split them into a separate post to get things clean.

    Cabinet:
    Was in discussions with Jeff in Digital Systems Designs and have talked through some options with him. Basically I have agreed in principle to buy an Atomiswave HD from him. Its the flat screen that has really attracted me to this particular model.

    Only con as such with this machine is that it is one player only. This does mean that it will be cheaper but Jeff fabricates 2 player panels so he can have one made to my specification at a later date. He defo allows for layouts and artwork but not sure if I can select joystick and button manufacturers??

    Jeff can also configure the internals of the cab with his equivalent of a jpac etc so basically all I would need to do is hook up my MAME machine and then later remove the 1p panel and replace and wire with 2p panel.

    Think that's all the main pieces covered. As you can see progress is slow but at the same time most elements are underway. No pics to share yet but I will absolutely do so when appropriate.

    All feedback welcome


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    Cabinet:
    Was in discussions with Jeff in Digital Systems Designs and have talked through some options with him. Basically I have agreed in principle to buy an Atomiswave HD from him. Its the flat screen that has really attracted me to this particular model.

    Only con as such with this machine is that it is one player only. This does mean that it will be cheaper but Jeff fabricates 2 player panels so he can have one made to my specification at a later date. He defo allows for layouts and artwork but not sure if I can select joystick and button manufacturers??

    Did he say what stick and buttons it ships with? I wouldn't be too worried about this for the minute, if you do get the cab then see if you like the feel of the stick and buttons that it comes with and if not then get a different set. They're pretty cheap to buy online and very easy to install. There are a couple of us on here with the exact same cab as that pretty much so can help out with any wiring questions if need be.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭ondafly


    Cabinet:
    Was in discussions with Jeff in Digital Systems Designs ....

    not to be a killjoy or anything - but when did you last hear from Jeff ? I've been chasing him via email for the last few weeks to buy a cabinet from him, and basically he stopped replying to me :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    Andrew, I didn't ask what buttons the cab ships with, I presume they're just the originals unless they need replacing.

    Ondafly, I was speaking with Jeff about 2 weeks ago. Let me know how you get on with him. I might have to rethink my strategy if he doesn't work out for you. Other members on here seem to have had only positive experiences with him so hopefully this is just a blip in your case.


  • Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ...My plan is to run Windows 7 64 bit on this...

    All feedback welcome

    Just some food for thought, rather than a recommendation. I know windows XP much better than I know windows 7, and from building a few cabs, and particularly my last one, which was hyperspin based, I would stick with XP pro 64 bit for a mame build, unless you have good reason not to. A lot of the key software you'll be using to set Hyperspin in particular up is built for xp, and also it's a very tweakable system, not very heavy on resources, and it's tried and tested by the community in terms of running it in a cab.

    Not saying that windows 7 won't be fantastic for you, it may be, but there's probably a lot more help and expertise out there for you on an XP config, and that might make a big difference to your overall experience.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 5,408 Mod ✭✭✭✭Optimus Prime


    I have win7 64bit running on mine, with hyperspin as the front end and to be honest you wouldnt even know windows was on it. Ive even removed the boot logo for win7, it loads up hyperspin on auto login every mouse cursor etc is hidden and when you exit hyperspin it shutsdown the pc. unless you looked inside and seen the pc you wouldnt think it was one.

    Now, it took me a while to get like that, there are a lot of things in win7 that need tweaking. eg the circle animation on the cursor when windows is logging in and out, the images for that are hidden in a .dll file you need to open and delete them from. a few bits and pieces like that, so you would need to read up alright and know what you are at.

    I cant remember the reason why i didnt go with xp to be honest, i had it installed at one stage but decided to go with win7 for some reason. mackdaddi is right though id say there is a lot more support for xp alright.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Xp is essential if you wanna use Soft15Khz. And then, you'll want a decent amount of ram so XP 64 will be needed to see anything over 3GB.

    If you use Win7, you'll have to use an ArcadeVGA or use an LCD monitor. Win 7 is also resource hungry, much more so than XP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭TechnoFreek


    Thanks guys, to be honest I hadnt given much thought to either xp or windows 7. I just thought windows 7 was the ideal option given that it is the latest version and isnt a pile of sh1te like vista! Although I do appreciate that win 7 is more hungry than xp. I'll be sticking in 4gb ram minimum regardless of the os I choose.

    EnterNow - will I need to run Soft15Khz if the Atomiswave has a trisync monitor? Or is that the very reason I need that software?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    EnterNow - will I need to run Soft15Khz if the Atomiswave has a trisync monitor? Or is that the very reason I need that software?

    Andrew or Steve can answer this better. I know the tri-sync will accept a 31Khz signal, I'm just not sure how 15Khz games will look on it. Is it a case that the monitor auto switches to the games resolution? I honestly don't know on that one dude


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Steve X2


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Andrew or Steve can answer this better. I know the tri-sync will accept a 31Khz signal, I'm just not sure how 15Khz games will look on it. Is it a case that the monitor auto switches to the games resolution? I honestly don't know on that one dude

    Yeah, auto switching monitor in my cab(same in Andrews I think). You can enable the low resolution option in Windows 7 and it will run fine at 31Khz without Soft15Khz installed(I ran my cab like that for a while).
    But if you do get the ArcadeVGA card(windows xp or 7, 32 or 64bit) or another that supports Soft15Khz(in windows xp, not 7) then you can tell MAME to switch to the proper resolution when a game is loaded up and get the proper arcade experience.


    Edit:
    You can also just run in 640x480 in Windows XP and it will work fine on a trisync. It's only Windows 7 that you need to enable the "low resolution mode" as it doesn't let you run in 640x480 normally. You don't need to download anything to do it as its just an option in the OS.
    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Steve SI wrote: »
    Edit:
    You can also just run in 640x480 in Windows XP and it will work fine on a trisync.

    So where does the 15Khz signal come from in that case, if Mame is set to switch to auto-resolution


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Steve X2


    EnterNow wrote: »
    So where does the 15Khz signal come from in that case, if Mame is set to switch to auto-resolution

    Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that.

    If you want to enable the resolution changing option in MAME(disabled by default) you will need Soft15Khz or an ArcadeVGA card. If you just run it in 640x480 on win 7 or xp then it will just load every game at that resolution and change the aspect ratio of the game to match the original, but not the resolution.
    It can still look very good on an arcade monitor like this but if you want the perfect match to the original game then you do need Soft15Khz or an ArcadeVGA.

    .


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