Top USAF general explains EXACTLY how to kill an F-22

whydave · 29-02-2012 07:33PM #1

This morning, Lieutenant General Herbert "Hawk" Carlisle, deputy chief of staff for plans, operations and requirements, explained how a Boeing F-15 can shoot down an F-22. Carlisle spoke this morning about fifth generation fighters at a breakfast event sponsored by the Air Force Association in Rosslyn, Virginia.
Link

ROFLcopter · 03-03-2012 08:07PM

whydave wrote: »

This morning, Lieutenant General Herbert "Hawk" Carlisle, deputy chief of staff for plans, operations and requirements, explained how a Boeing F-15 can shoot down an F-22. Carlisle spoke this morning about fifth generation fighters at a breakfast event sponsored by the Air Force Association in Rosslyn, Virginia.
Link

What a clown, Imagine telling the world how to shoot down a highly advanced tactical fighter jet with a 40 year old fighter jet.:pac:

cyrusdvirus · 04-03-2012 11:16AM

ROFLcopter wrote: »

What a clown, Imagine telling the world how to shoot down a highly advanced tactical fighter jet with a 40 year old fighter jet.:pac:

Yeah, that's it.. he's a clown..telling you that you have to be having the very best of very good days and the guy in the raptor has to having the very worst of very bad days, and even STILL you only get a fleeting chance.......

:rolleyes:

gbee · 04-03-2012 11:30AM

gatecrash wrote: »

:rolleyes:

But if you can expose that fleeting chance ?

In the end it comes down to the man. remember North Korea, the USAF's most advanced jet fighter was not equipped with old fashioned machine guns and they lost a lot of superior aircraft for a time.

cyrusdvirus · 04-03-2012 11:35AM

gbee wrote: »

But if you can expose that fleeting chance ?

In the end it comes down to the man. remember North Korea, the USAF's most advanced jet fighter was not equipped with old fashioned machine guns and they lost a lot of superior aircraft for a time.

North Korea?

The USAF's most advanced jet fighter in theatre was the F-86 Sabre.....which had 6 X 0.5 Machine guns in the nose

gbee · 04-03-2012 12:15PM

gatecrash wrote: »

North Korea?

I must have been Vietnam then. They took the guns out of a version of that jet and fitted it with air to air missiles only ~ after severe losses they were reequipped with gun pods and the US pilots started to shoot down the Migs with machine gun fire.

westdub · 04-03-2012 12:41PM

In North Vietnam where the early model F-4s had no gun?,First off the early radar's problem tracking low flying mig's and the rules of engagement that required all targets to be visually identified led to the USAF having a bad kill to loss ratio early on.
What severe losses did the US have in Vietnam? If you do some research you will find most aircraft lost over Vietnam were to SAM's not to aircraft,

USAF finished the war Jan. 28, 1973 with a two-to-one overall kill-loss ratio. The Air Force had downed 137 MiGs, with 65 aircraft (including bombers) lost to MiGs.

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2010/June%202010/0610doughnut.aspx

I cant see how any of those factors would effect a F-22 v ? confrontation in any future conflict...

Killinator · 05-03-2012 04:04PM

Wouldn't the best way to 'kill' an F22 be to shoot it while its parked on the tarmac as its not in use:D

Seriously, though, has the F22 seen any actual action/service, its an awesome machine but it seems to have been around for decade with people saying WHEN it comes out it will change the way aerial fights are fought.

I was flying a Raptor in USNF '97 for crying out loud!

xflyer · 05-03-2012 06:18PM

I think the fact that a senior officer in the USAF feels comfortable enough to 'reveal' the only weakness in the F22 simply demonstrates their confidence in the aircraft.

It's all moot though as it's likely that the day of the fighter furball is over. It's all very well playing games on home ground. Quite different in real combat.

As for the Vietnam war. Well the both the USAF and USN had a very poor win to loss ratio compared to the Korean war. This improved for the USN after they instigated the TOPGUN programme but it remained poor for the USAF right to the end.

To be fair a lot of the air to air shootdowns were of F105s, which despite the F were more B105s.

Recommend a read of 'Thud Ridge' by Col Broughton. A classic book written at the time. It's available on Amazon for next to nothing. Well worth it.

Pataman · 06-03-2012 04:07PM

Just let the air out of its tyres. That'll do it.

Tea 1000 · 06-03-2012 05:39PM

Does it bother anyone else when they see terms like "Boeing F15"? It's a McDonnell Douglas F15... Just because Boeing bought the company doesn't mean they can claim an aircraft that had nothing to do with them as their own! It'd be like General Motors deciding to rename the old Saab 99 Turbo as the Opel 99 Turbo! Gives them credit where it's not due... Anything developed from the take-over point onwards is fair game obviously.

Turbulent Bill · 06-03-2012 05:41PM

xflyer wrote: »

I think the fact that a senior officer in the USAF feels comfortable enough to 'reveal' the only weakness in the F22 simply demonstrates their confidence in the aircraft.

It's all moot though as it's likely that the day of the fighter furball is over. It's all very well playing games on home ground. Quite different in real combat.

Precisely - it's a nice bit of PR, nothing else. In reality most combat is BVR and turn rates etc. don't come into it. It boils down to how good a weapons system is vs. countermeasures rather than what's carrying them.

Vietnam-era missiles were far less reliable and capable than modern versions, hence dogfighting had to be used as a last resort.

Top USAF general explains EXACTLY how to kill an F-22

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