Unions Demand Return Of Teachers Allowances

Freddie59 · 01-02-2012 02:40PM #1

Are these people in the real world?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0201/teachers.html

The Teachers' Union of Ireland has called for the immediate reversal of a Government decision to suspend the payment of allowances to new teachers.

The decision reduces the pay of new entrants by up to several thousand euro.
The Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland has also strongly criticised the decision, which both unions say was taken unilaterally with no consultation.

The move affects allowances paid to teachers over and above their basic salary.

A teacher with an Honours Higher Diploma gets an additional €1,200 per year, for example, while an Honours Masters Degree attracts an extra €5,500.

DrumSteve · 01-02-2012 02:40PM

Lol they can **** off

finlma · 01-02-2012 02:45PM

Of course they should get allowances. If you're more qualified in the private sector you get better pay as you offer more to the job. A teacher with a Masters degree should be paid more than a teacher with a normal pass degree.

It's very shortsighted to get rid of allowances. They cost very little in the grand scheme of things. If they are not offered then no one will look to educate themselves further. We need to be investing in education and improving the skillset of teachers. Getting rid of allowances is a retrograde step.

By the way a new teacher entering the profession now starts on less than €28k a year. Their weekly take home pay is not a whole lot better than the minimum wage. If we expect to get good quality teachers then we're going the wrong way about it.

sensibleken · 01-02-2012 02:45PM

Yes, unions are there to argue the case for their members. Thats their job.

44leto · 01-02-2012 02:47PM

Teaching!!! the best paid part-time job in the country, now they do a PR campaign at how hard their job is, well the only ones that will be listening are the people in their staff rooms.

Freddie59 · 01-02-2012 02:48PM

finlma wrote: »

By the way a new teacher entering the profession now starts on less than €28k a year. Their weekly take home pay is not a whole lot better than the minimum wage.

Our daughter is training to be an accountant (final year). Earning less than that. Ireland 2012. Suck it up.

Geuze · 01-02-2012 02:50PM

Trainee acc earning less than qualified teacher.

But when qualified, the acc will probably earn more than the teacher.

Sad.

We pay people more to move money than to educate our children.

biko · 01-02-2012 02:50PM

Ok just to be clear, this thread is about the various allowances.
Any general teacher bashing will get a smack and/or some time in the corner

Pissmire · 01-02-2012 02:51PM

If their earnings were performance related they'd work harder for what they got. Good performance = more pay. Poor performance = down the road. If that's not an incentive, nothing is.

mikemac1 · 01-02-2012 02:52PM

You seem surprised OP, unions are there to lobby for their members

If they just accepted cuts and said nothing they'd be a pretty useless union

JohnK · 01-02-2012 02:53PM

finlma wrote: »

By the way a new teacher entering the profession now starts on less than €28k a year. Their weekly take home pay is not a whole lot better than the minimum wage. If we expect to get good quality teachers then we're going the wrong way about it.

When I started my first job about 8 years ago I was on either €20,000 or €22,000 so whats the big problem with someone starting at €28,000?

GetWithIt · 01-02-2012 02:54PM

Just a thought, why don't the various govt bodies suspend these payments in the middle of summer?

finlma · 01-02-2012 02:55PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Our daughter is training to be an accountant (final year). Earning less than that. Ireland 2012. Suck it up.

You expect your trainee daughter to earn more than a qualified professional teacher???? Shows the respect people have for those educating their children.

Chucky the tree · 01-02-2012 02:56PM

finlma wrote: »

Of course they should get allowances. If you're more qualified in the private sector you get better pay as you offer more to the job. A teacher with a Masters degree should be paid more than a teacher with a normal pass degree.

It's very shortsighted to get rid of allowances. They cost very little in the grand scheme of things. If they are not offered then no one will look to educate themselves further. We need to be investing in education and improving the skillset of teachers. Getting rid of allowances is a retrograde step.

By the way a new teacher entering the profession now starts on less than €28k a year. Their weekly take home pay is not a whole lot better than the minimum wage. If we expect to get good quality teachers then we're going the wrong way about it.

€28k a year for 9 months of work is excellent. That's 37k for a 12 month schedule.

finlma · 01-02-2012 02:57PM

JohnK wrote: »

When I started my first job about 8 years ago I was on either €20,000 or €22,000 so whats the big problem with someone starting at €28,000?

People who study for 4 years and get a degree deserve to be rewarded as a qualified professional. If you did thiis then you were underpaid.

Gee Bag · 01-02-2012 02:58PM

Teachers get 3-4 months paid holidays a year, a short working day and a job you can't be fired from regardless of your level of competence.

With all this current nonsense about early retirement and subsequent rehiring their unions should really be keeping their heads down and their mouth shut.

Pete M. · 01-02-2012 03:01PM

What would you expect the teacher's Unions to do?

Thank the Government for cutting the allowances?

Obviously some of the people round these here parts aren't engaged with 'the real world' if they expect the continued vicious austerity for the benefit of the wealthy elite to go unopposed.

The same people giving out about this would also likely be the ones calling for the Public Sector Agreement to be scrapped.

But be careful what you wish for. This is all that has prevented there being widescale Union action against the ongoing cuts.

The teacher's Unions are just doing what they are meant to do.
And fair play to them...

finlma · 01-02-2012 03:02PM

Everyone got the same CAO form. Maybe some couldn't get the required high number of points to become a teacher. Complaining about the summer holidays smacks of bitterness.

Odysseus · 01-02-2012 03:04PM

I agree with the teachers, I work for the HSE I am more qualified than most of the other therapists I work with. I put in the extra work to train to a higher degree, so I think that should be reflected in my wages.

In the private sector you are generally better paid the higher educated you are. I hope to get the cash to pay for a PhD, when I do so my clients will benefit, the service I work for will benefit, but personally within my job I won't. Should that be the the case?

If you want better trained people you have to pay for it.

mickoneill30 · 01-02-2012 03:06PM

finlma wrote: »

Of course they should get allowances. If you're more qualified in the private sector you get better pay as you offer more to the job. A teacher with a Masters degree should be paid more than a teacher with a normal pass degree.

That doesn't sound right to me. I've been in the private sector for a long time. I've never been in a company where people have gotten more because of their qualification. E.g. if 4 people come in at a basic role then the 4 people get paid the same. The guy with the better qualifications may be better than the other 3 and may get promoted because the qualification makes him / her better at the job but there's no guarantee of that and certainly they don't have a right to more money just because they've more education.

Chucky the tree · 01-02-2012 03:06PM

finlma wrote: »

Everyone got the same CAO form. Maybe some couldn't get the required high number of points to become a teacher. Complaining about the summer holidays smacks of bitterness.

I simply pointed out the facts. Complaining about 28k a year for 9 months of work in the middle of Ireland's worst ever financial crisis and with 14% unemployment smacks of delusion.

louiseok01 · 01-02-2012 03:28PM

These measures are disgraceful...the gov should be focusing on job creation, trying to attract new companies to Ireland...not looking cutting wages of new teachers.

Gophur · 01-02-2012 03:36PM

finlma wrote: »

Of course they should get allowances. If you're more qualified in the private sector you get better pay as you offer more to the job. A teacher with a Masters degree should be paid more than a teacher with a normal pass degree.

It's very shortsighted to get rid of allowances. They cost very little in the grand scheme of things. If they are not offered then no one will look to educate themselves further. We need to be investing in education and improving the skillset of teachers. Getting rid of allowances is a retrograde step.

By the way a new teacher entering the profession now starts on less than €28k a year. Their weekly take home pay is not a whole lot better than the minimum wage. If we expect to get good quality teachers then we're going the wrong way about it.

Why should the State have to pay more to a teacher because of his/her qualifications, if he/she is doing the exact same job as someone with lesser qualifications?

All the degrees you can get will not necessarily make you a better teacher.

Irish teachers are paid very well, even under the new scales.

Do you not understand that we cannot continue to
1. borrow the money to pay Public/Civil Servants
and
2. continue to pay our Public/Civil Servants (including teachers) well over the European averages, while complaining about the interest rates we're paying on bail-out funding.

Teaching is a hard job. It's also a very cushy job. Class hours are very small and holidays are generous.

gurramok · 01-02-2012 03:37PM

louiseok01 wrote: »

These measures are disgraceful...the gov should be focusing on job creation, trying to attract new companies to Ireland...not looking cutting wages of new teachers.

Complain to the IMF or Angela Merkel, take your pick. It has not got through to some people yet that Ireland is broke and will be broke for many years to come.

Southeast1 · 01-02-2012 03:39PM

I'm just curious what all these teacher bashers think is an acceptable weekly salary for a teacher starting out, teaching full hours???

Also what do they think is an acceptable weekly wage for ateacher with lets say 10 years experience?

Balmed Out · 01-02-2012 03:41PM

I think its fair enough, you wont get paid more in the private sector for a better degree it just makes it bit easier to get a job in the first place.
Teaching to be fair is a tougher job then most and they do more hours then the schoolday.

JohnK · 01-02-2012 03:57PM

finlma wrote: »

People who study for 4 years and get a degree deserve to be rewarded as a qualified professional. If you did thiis then you were underpaid.

Why should that be the case? If you're hired to do Job X then thats what you'll be doing regardless of the years of study you do. As you prove your worth to the company then by all means let them increase what you're paid. Thats how things work in the real world; when I left that job I was on more money than people who started in the same job at the same time but with higher qualifications.

louiseok01 · 01-02-2012 03:59PM

I think it is discriminatory against new teachers. Cuts should apply to all teaching staff. As it stands new teachers will receive 18% less than other teachers for doing the same job. This is unjust. New teachers are being picked on again because the gov know that they do not have a voice. They already took a 10% salary reduction in Jan and now this...its crazy.
I did a masters and it cost 15, ooo euro. People will not do MAs etc if they do not receive some incentive for doing it.

Sin1981 · 01-02-2012 04:05PM

Having a MSc or PhD bears no reflection on how well you can teach. the ability to teach is mostly learned/taught during the teacher training year. A higher degrees means you have more knowledge in your subject, not better able to teach. (and I have a Phd)
Some of these allowances are for getting your HDip, some are for playground supvision etc etc. This should be in your contract and you shouldn't get paid more for these duties.

IMO fair pay for teachers would be calculated by looking at pay in the top 6/7 Western European countries, and finding the average of these figures. That is very fair.

Also, I am not paid more for my Phd in my company, and I have a few years experience. This is 2012 in a awful recession. As someone said already. Suck it up!

micropig · 01-02-2012 04:07PM

finlma wrote: »

Of course they should get allowances. If you're more qualified in the private sector you get better pay as you offer more to the job. A teacher with a Masters degree should be paid more than a teacher with a normal pass degree.

It's very shortsighted to get rid of allowances. They cost very little in the grand scheme of things. If they are not offered then no one will look to educate themselves further. We need to be investing in education and improving the skillset of teachers. Getting rid of allowances is a retrograde step.

By the way a new teacher entering the profession now starts on less than €28k a year. Their weekly take home pay is not a whole lot better than the minimum wage. If we expect to get good quality teachers then we're going the wrong way about it.

The thing about teachers bonus' is that you get a bonus for having the basic qualification to do the job

http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/qualification-allowances/

Southeast1 · 01-02-2012 04:08PM

People also seem to forget that a great many teachers starting out do not get full teaching hours. Therefore they could easily be earning 3/4 or 1/2 of €28,000 and still be in school for the full day, every day. Take a pension levy out of that and you are on almost nothing.

To me it is nothing short of age discrimination.

Also I note that nobody answered my question. What do they consider to be an acceptable weekly wage for teachers starting out?
And also what is acceptable after 10 years?

Unions Demand Return Of Teachers Allowances

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