An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

freeze4real · 28-01-2012 11:40PM

Daftendirekt wrote: »

These articles were shamelessly stolen from the ACTA thread (copyright infringement :eek:), but I think they're worth a read:

Swiss government reaches some interesting conclusions about file sharing. Includes a link to the study, but it isn't in English.

Dutch government reach similar conclusions.

And an alternative perspective on the problem of piracy.

I'm not a piracy advocate by any means, but I'm really get tired of all the hysteria over it. Some legislation is necessary, sure, but it should be based on good, sound, ethical principles rather being shaped arbitrarily by the short-sightedness of lobbyists and politicians.

To quote the third article:

That's it if its get passed i am moving to Switzerland/Holland.

I am beginning to question that guys motive for deciding to sign this law,

Anyone with brains know how dangerous its plus the economics disadvantages to Ireland and the ISP providers.

what annoying is that these so called minister studied economics and yet he bent of introducing these piece of ****.

I fail and will not understand this and I will question his motives.

we must fight these.

UNITED AS ONE OR DIVIDED WE FALL.

token56 · 28-01-2012 11:41PM

One good thing that has come from this I think is to show that the internet can give the ordinary people both power and knowledge. It's wonderful to see how quickly news of things like this can spread and it has become much harder for even little SI's like this to slip by the public eye. In addition knowledge regarding how to get in contact with TD's for example and the power to coordinate mass contact to put pressure on them.

While this SI is does not directly stop us from continuing doing these things and does not directly allow for censorship etc, it is certainly a step closer rather than further away, and that should be a cause for concern alone.

Potchumkin · 28-01-2012 11:46PM

Thank you Boards. I have added my name to the petition. I am glad to see that normal service returns after the notification. Good policy.
SOPA need to get their act together. Altruism requires a greater degree of sophistication in the cut-throat environment of present day instant communication.

DeVore · 28-01-2012 11:51PM

As shown by the Irish times today and RTE recently, we're one of the last few places where reasoned back-and-forth debate can happen. Everything else is spun.

Daftendirekt · 28-01-2012 11:52PM

token56 wrote: »

One good thing that has come from this I think is to show that the internet can give the ordinary people both power and knowledge. It's wonderful to see how quickly news of things like this can spread and it has become much harder for even little SI's like this to slip by the public eye. In addition knowledge regarding how to get in contact with TD's for example and the power to coordinate mass contact to put pressure on them.

Indeed. Given the lack of knowledge our TDs seem to have on the subject, I get the impression Sherlock was really expecting to just slip this under the radar. Now it seems his phone's been ringing off the hook, he's being snowed under with Email (as well as others in the Dáil), and even had Anonymous turn their attention toward Irish government websites.

Not bad going!

View · 29-01-2012 12:02AM

freeze4real wrote: »

That's it if its get passed i am moving to Switzerland/Holland.

Both Switzerland and the Netherlands have signed up to ACTA so you'll have the same situation there.

Daftendirekt · 29-01-2012 12:32AM

View wrote: »

Both Switzerland and the Netherlands have signed up to ACTA so you'll have the same situation there.

I think with regards to ACTA, a lot of the more unpleasant stuff we've been hearing comes from an earlier draft. I haven't read the text itself yet, but there's a summary on reddit.

If what that's saying is accurate, ACTA itself won't force any new IP laws on the signatories, but will grant a standardised set of powers to deal with copyright infringement.

Not saying it's good, just that the simple act of signing up to ACTA might not necessarily be as significant as it's being made out to be.

thebman · 29-01-2012 02:02AM

Daftendirekt wrote: »

I think with regards to ACTA, a lot of the more unpleasant stuff we've been hearing comes from an earlier draft. I haven't read the text itself yet, but there's a summary on reddit.

If what that's saying is accurate, ACTA itself won't force any new IP laws on the signatories, but will grant a standardised set of powers to deal with copyright infringement.

Not saying it's good, just that the simple act of signing up to ACTA might not necessarily be as significant as it's being made out to be.

Any new restrictions aren't welcome. All the things these people are lobbying against area already against the law. They just have problems finding them and prosecuting them. Why should they be allowed infringe on anyone elses privacy or rights just to help them get the money they are owed in an easier fashion?

It is ridiculous to say the least.

timesnap · 29-01-2012 03:21AM

DeVore wrote: »

Google are no more in favour of this then we are. They stand to suffer too.. the problem here is the lack of control on getting injunctions which gives the copyright lobbyist a huge stick to beat everyone with...

Devore read my post again,i did not suggest that google were to blame.merely that we boycott google for a week in order that the minister does not even consider signing............. use a hugh stick, ie google to stop the minister.
i am fairly sure he would come under less than subtle pressure if google said they were going to leave Ireland due to this.

jay-me · 29-01-2012 07:22AM

freeze4real wrote: »

That's it if its get passed i am moving to Switzerland/Holland.

I am beginning to question that guys motive for deciding to sign this law,

Anyone with brains know how dangerous its plus the economics disadvantages to Ireland and the ISP providers.

what annoying is that these so called minister studied economics and yet he bent of introducing these piece of ****.

I fail and will not understand this and I will question his motives.

we must fight these.

UNITED AS ONE OR DIVIDED WE FALL.

His motives are that the rest of Europe signed it along with USA, Canada, japan etc etc. And their motives are that if there is no piracy there will be more sales and thus more taxes.

grasshopper1 · 29-01-2012 10:43AM

DeVore wrote: »

According to Mr Sherlock, he's going to sign the instrument regardless.

And then the dail will have a debate on it!

By the way, my mobile phone number was put into the hand of Mr Sherlock last night by Stephen Donnelly with a promise he and I would discuss this today. So far no contact.

I'm not an enemy here, I want to find a way that works and isnt DUMB.

This is neither.

Very few people have heard of this new law and people really need to know before it's too late. How about ringing up Joe Duffey, at least you'd get the word out.

grasshopper1

Spacedog · 29-01-2012 12:40PM

Daftendirekt wrote: »

I think with regards to ACTA, a lot of the more unpleasant stuff we've been hearing comes from an earlier draft. I haven't read the text itself yet, but there's a summary on reddit.

If what that's saying is accurate, ACTA itself won't force any new IP laws on the signatories, but will grant a standardised set of powers to deal with copyright infringement.

Not saying it's good, just that the simple act of signing up to ACTA might not necessarily be as significant as it's being made out to be.

I disagree with this assessment of ACTA. it is one of several legislation changes with the same goal in mind. The lobbyists who who write this stuff, don't write 1 draft, they write 3 or 4, slightly decreasing controversial sticking points in each one.

So that when draft 1 (based directly on Orwells 1984) is rejected, they immediately put draft 2 on the table and still got 90% of what they want, they can come back later for the other 10%

for example, when SOPA was rejected in the states PIPA was there the next week, and probably 2 others we never heard about that could be passes under our noses for lack of publicity.

For every sneaky attempt to push dodgy legislation into law that we see, there are 20 that we don't.

We can pat ourselves on the back if we can reject SOPA, PIPA, irishSopa, but if our MEPs sign off on ACTA, the bad guys still win.

If you give an inch they take a mile.

As it stands now, the best we can hope for is for things to stay the same.
This global simultaneous attack of freedom and extension of the powers of copyright holders, the undermining of democracy itself, must not only resisted, but punished.

We as a civilisation need to go on the offensive.

-10 year limit on all copyright.
-Guaranteed globally accepted public domain.
-Guaranteed protection for frivolous patent infringement for non profit organisations.
-Separation and a clear distinction to be set between sharers, downloaders, ISPs, and third party service providers, and people who sell toxic toys to kids.
-Restore full net neutrality.
-Criminalise data retention and deep packet inspection under wire tapping laws.

All this stuff seems perfectly reasonable to most people, but these lobbyists would die of a heart attack if they were so much as considered.

FreudianSlippers · 29-01-2012 12:40PM

Bambi wrote: »

So how many people who are blaming sherlock for this sorry state of affairs are the same people who were in favour of giving the EU the power to dictate legislation to this country?

Jesus... not this crap again. How exactly does the EU dictate legislation in this country?

You're talking nonsense now.

Citizen_Kane · 29-01-2012 01:12PM

Bambi wrote: »

So how many people who are blaming sherlock for this sorry state of affairs are the same people who were in favour of giving the EU the power to dictate legislation to this country? I think some people might need to take a long hard look at their posting history before they get on their high horses here.

I haven't seen anybody blame Sherlock for the sorry state of affairs. He is simply expected, as is his job, to apply due democratic diligence.

The EU is not forcing him to implement the SI. They haven't even asked him to. Even if they had - the FG and Labour charter say that SI's should not be used to implement this kind of legislation. It needs full discussion and debate.

Citizen_Kane · 29-01-2012 02:38PM

A humorous (maybe) look at how the corporate buy-out of culture in the music industry has changed things:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/12-extremely-disappointing-facts-about-popular-mus

_AVALANCHE_ · 29-01-2012 04:27PM

Spacedog wrote: »

We as a civilisation need to go on the offensive.

-10 year limit on all copyright.
-Guaranteed globally accepted public domain.
-Guaranteed protection for frivolous patent infringement for non profit organisations.
-Separation and a clear distinction to be set between sharers, downloaders, ISPs, and third party service providers, and people who sell toxic toys to kids.
-Restore full net neutrality.
-Criminalise data retention and deep packet inspection under wire tapping laws.

here

Cliff Richard wins fight to have music copyright extended

Living Doll will continue to pay Sir Cliff Richard's pension for another two decades, after a European Union (EU) directive extended the copyright on sound recordings from 50 to 70 years.

Sir Cliff Richard originally campaigned for the copyright term to be extended to 95 years
The ruling, dubbed "Cliff's Law" after the veteran pop star waged a long-running campaign to have the copyright period extended, will prevent his material from the 1960s from falling out of copyright. Some earlier recordings that have fallen out of copyright will move back under its protection.

Musicians ranging from Dame Shirley Bassey, The Who's Roger Daltry and Jools Holland welcomed the ruling, alongside contemporary artists like Paloma Faith, who hailed its ramifications for performers' long-term prospects.

"We absolutely do not go into making music for the money, but it is only right that we are paid fairly for the work we do," Ms Faith said. "As an artist who invests so much time, passion and spirit into making music, [we should] be paid in line with Europe."

Les Reed, a performer and songwriter best known for penning Tom Jones' hits Delilah and It's Not Unusual, said he was "totally overcome".

Sir Cliff originally campaigned for the copyright term to be extended to 95 years, and was backed by hundreds of other veteran musicians ranging from little-known session performers to household names such as Bob Geldoff and wartime "Forces Sweetheart" Dame Vera Lynn.

It was kicked into the long grass for many years, but on Monday the EU's Council of Ministers voted through the more modest extension to put Britain on an equal footing with Europe.

Daftendirekt · 29-01-2012 04:30PM

Spacedog wrote: »

I disagree with this assessment of ACTA. it is one of several legislation changes with the same goal in mind. The lobbyists who who write this stuff, don't write 1 draft, they write 3 or 4, slightly decreasing controversial sticking points in each one.

So that when draft 1 (based directly on Orwells 1984) is rejected, they immediately put draft 2 on the table and still got 90% of what they want, they can come back later for the other 10%

for example, when SOPA was rejected in the states PIPA was there the next week, and probably 2 others we never heard about that could be passes under our noses for lack of publicity.

For every sneaky attempt to push dodgy legislation into law that we see, there are 20 that we don't.

We can pat ourselves on the back if we can reject SOPA, PIPA, irishSopa, but if our MEPs sign off on ACTA, the bad guys still win.

If you give an inch they take a mile.

As it stands now, the best we can hope for is for things to stay the same.
This global simultaneous attack of freedom and extension of the powers of copyright holders, the undermining of democracy itself, must not only resisted, but punished.

We as a civilisation need to go on the offensive.

Like I said, I'm not condoning or defending it. Just pointing out that as far as I'm aware it won't force the Dutch and Swiss governments to abandon their more reasonable attitude towards copyright.

I agree that ACTA is a bad thing and needs to be opposed, but it's bad mainly for the reasons you've just outlined, rather than some of the more sensationalist claims I've heard bandied about.

-10 year limit on all copyright.
-Guaranteed globally accepted public domain.
-Guaranteed protection for frivolous patent infringement for non profit organisations.
-Separation and a clear distinction to be set between sharers, downloaders, ISPs, and third party service providers, and people who sell toxic toys to kids.
-Restore full net neutrality.
-Criminalise data retention and deep packet inspection under wire tapping laws.

All this stuff seems perfectly reasonable to most people, but these lobbyists would die of a heart attack if they were so much as considered.

Can't argue with anything there (maybe the 10 year limit), though I'd add:

-Reframing copyright as the exclusive right of the owner to profit from his or her work, rather than the exclusive right to make copies of it.
-Clear distinction between copying for commercial and non-commercial use
-Removal of the ability to sell or give away the rights to your intellectual property. Replace it with a licensing system that allows the content owner to grant permission to third parties to distribute it commercially, while retaining ownership over it

infowars.com · 29-01-2012 04:47PM

i see in paper google are advertiseing 1000 jobs in ireland must be to monitor peoples internet usage!!

meglome · 29-01-2012 04:57PM

infowars.com wrote: »

i see in paper google are advertiseing 1000 jobs in ireland must be to monitor peoples internet usage!!

don't spoil your previously good points in the thread with this rubbish.

dahamsta · 29-01-2012 05:13PM

WistfulSoul wrote: »

The Irish Times political commentator Noel Whelan, has a rather prominent ( and one sided ) piece supporting Minister Sherlock's
well intentioned fumblings in today's paper.

I stopped at "those who argue for an unregulated internet". That, in my view, is either an outright lie, or an example of an incredible level of ignorance.

Spacedog · 29-01-2012 05:48PM

Sorry if this was posted already...

Sherlock vs McIntyre on Pat Kenny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQzUCG68Pf8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHEdyBgRZGQ

infowars.com · 29-01-2012 06:02PM

gov lies they are just gonna monitor your internet usage and who know maybe put a tax on the internet wtf up

infowars.com · 29-01-2012 06:09PM

humm and the gove tells you not to worrie yeah right http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiUSzuP0rQI&feature=related

Spacedog · 29-01-2012 06:12PM

Under this SI, If Wikileaks posts a document or video that a company claims copyright on, can that company compel Irish ISPs to block wikileaks by way of injunction?

Niall0001 · 29-01-2012 06:25PM

Presume the blocked sites will be done just like Eircom did with the Pirate Bay?

Eircom users try this, for example:

Click this link: http://thepiratebay.org/

Doesn't work, right? Been blocked by Eircom.

So click this, download software & run: http://expatshield.com/

Now try the Pirate Bay link again. Yay! Resistance is futile, Dail numpties!

thebman · 29-01-2012 06:28PM

Spacedog wrote: »

Under this SI, If Wikileaks posts a document or video that a company claims copyright on, can that company compel Irish ISPs to block wikileaks by way of injunction?

If they can, don't worry they'll make an exemption for any side you've heard of that would make them look bad.

It'll just stop the thousands of small sites that you never heard of. It'll be double standard central as it always is, one rule for large corporations, one rule for the little guys.

Niall0001 · 29-01-2012 06:28PM

Expat Shield changes your IP address to one located in the UK. Helps you watch BBC live channels, ITV & BBC iPlayer also.

With regard to downloads: how can they possibly know what content you're downloading, aside from the webpage you're downloading it from & the filename? So surely using Expat Shield & renaming the file you're downloading, then turning off Expat Shield to run full speed download will work?

AntiRip · 29-01-2012 06:40PM

Found an ACTA Petition here while surfing. Already ~ 917310. They are looking for a million signatures .

http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet_spread/?rc=fb&pv=284

Citizen_Kane · 29-01-2012 07:01PM

Sean Sherlock on Pat Kenny's show states that there is a culture emerging where people feel entitled to download and use things for free.

He is right.

This is a wonderful thing which is driving a cultural renaissance.

Here is an example of a musical enterprise that allow their fans to download their stuff and even encourages other musicians to re-use their stuff - as long as they are credited.

http://afterthesmoke.tumblr.com/tagged/after+the+smoke

When you start imposing an old copyright, restrictive culture onto a new , sharing copyleft culture the whole thing stops. They are mutually incompatible in a mainstream cultural ideology.

Mr Sherlock may be attune to legal and corporate innovation, but I don't think he begins to understand the concept of cultural innovation.

There are already new copyleft, creative commons licenses which protect and provide income for artists without the need for middlemen like EMI and the likes.

ancapailldorcha · 29-01-2012 07:13PM

Citizen_Kane wrote: »

A humorous (maybe) look at how the corporate buy-out of culture in the music industry has changed things:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/12-extremely-disappointing-facts-about-popular-mus

To be fair, itunes didn't exist when most of the greats were about. You can buy an album or a single in a click nowadays. Still saddens me though.

An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

Comments