Would you wear clothing with the British Flag on it?

ejmaztec · 19-01-2012 12:54AM

pmcmahon wrote: »

Same with that rangers shirt that's been knocking around my local JJB for the past 10 years.

Might have antique value now, get in there quick.:eek:

--LOS-- · 19-01-2012 12:55AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

British flag.

The Union Jack, or to be correct, the Union Flag (It is only called the jack when it is flying from a Royal Navy vessel) is the flag of Britain. The English flag is the cross of St George.

so insert british flag where I accidentally said english flag and read the post again. The point is the same whether you choose to be pedantic about it or not ¬_¬

A Dub in Glasgo · 19-01-2012 12:59AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

British flag.

The Union Jack, or to be correct, the Union Flag (It is only called the jack when it is flying from a Royal Navy vessel) is the flag of Britain. .

Actually, it is the flag of the United Kingdom

later12 · 19-01-2012 01:03AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What always amuses me, is that i could put on my England football shirt, go to Tesco and expect to get around five comments such as "You've got a nerve" or "you're ****ing brave".

If I did the same thing in my England rugby shirt, no one says a thing.

go figure.

to be honest though, I don't wear either very often, because I'm all grown up.

That's terrible Fred, letting you away with that... goes to show the Irish people who shop in Tesco are traitors :pac:

In all seriousness I think you're quite right. People seem to know it's only symbolic, and yet at the same time because it's only symbolic they let their hearts rule their heads. If they were truly offended, you'd expect them to be as offended at your football shirt as your rugby shirt as at the RBS Ulster Bank logo, which although encompassing GB, itself based on the Union flag.

bwatson · 19-01-2012 01:06AM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Actually, it is the flag of the United Kingdom

The term Britain is widely accepted and widely used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole. You know this.

brummytom · 19-01-2012 01:09AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Yes, I have.
I hate Britain. I have never felt British despite being born there. I always felt Irish, due to being born to Irish parents; and raised as Irish.
Children of the Irish diaspora often have this hatred of their country of birth, and become polarised. As we feel we are something different and do not belong to our country of birth; we reject and hate anything associated with it, and embrace anything that relates to our parents nationality.

I know quite a few people with the views above, even 3rd generation, including myself.

Why are people so up in arms about the comparison with the Nazis? The British invented concentration camps for God sake, they're hardly angels.

A Dub in Glasgo · 19-01-2012 01:13AM

bwatson wrote: »

The term Britain is widely accepted and widely used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole. You know this.

Accepted by some, but factually incorrect.. you know this, of course

Johnny Foreigner · 19-01-2012 01:13AM

fryup wrote: »

hatred of all countries or just the uk??

maybe its because they're brought up with a chip on their shoulder like you that they're not willing to mix with people of their adopted country

Hatred of their country of birth. Like I said.
I have not got a chip on my shoulder. I hate Britain and British people.
I prefer to mix with Irish, as I have always felt Irish not British.
Some of my London-Irish cousins married English people, and some of them married Irish. I find English people to be culturally different to Irish people, and having lived and worked in both England and Ireland, I prefer Ireland and Irish people.
What you have to understand is that London-Irish children of the Irish diaspora like me are something different; like an ethnic minority. We don't feel British, we feel Irish. We are hybrids between the two cultures, but our hyphenated identity does not have a sense of belonging as we do not feel a bond to our birthplace. This is not having a chip on our shoulder, it is yearning to feel a sense of belonging, a sense of identity which we cannot get in Britain. It is the same with many children of the Italian diaspora in London. They don't feel British either, and hate Britain. They feel Italian, they are London-Italians. I suppose you think they have a chip on their shoulder too?
The reality is that children of any ethnic group will want to mix with their own as they are displaced from a sense of belonging with their birth place. I was born in London, but I don't call it home. Ireland is my home.
Like many I am polarised, it goes with being a child of the diaspora. When your parents are immigrants you feel you hate your country of birth, and yearn to belong to their country of origin.
I was brought up in London in an Irish community. My friends at school were Irish, not English. I never felt I had anything in common with the English children. I have been to Ireland twice a year, every year of my life. From when I was a child I wanted to live in Ireland not London.
When I moved to Ireland 3 years ago, everything felt right. I had a sense of belonging. I will never go back to Britain as I hate it.

bwatson · 19-01-2012 01:14AM

brummytom wrote: »

I know quite a few people with the views above, even 3rd generation, including myself.

Why are people so up in arms about the comparison with the Nazis? The British invented concentration camps for God sake, they're hardly angels.

You hate Britain and you reject anything associated with Britain? Why not leave back to your motherland? I'm sure it would be very much appreciated if you did.

brummytom · 19-01-2012 01:16AM

bwatson wrote: »

You hate Britain and you reject anything associated with Britain? Why not leave back to your motherland? I'm sure it would be very much appreciated if you did.

Because I'm 18 and still at school. I intend to leave this year, depending on Universities.

Dudess · 19-01-2012 01:18AM

brummytom wrote: »

The British invented concentration camps

Earl Kitchener afaik - born in north Kerry.

I think the original idea was a relatively benign one though - to use them as kinda refugee camps during the Boer War... but I could be wrong.

bwatson · 19-01-2012 01:19AM

brummytom wrote: »

Because I'm 18 and still at school. I intend to leave this year, depending on Universities.

Out of interest, what has been the cause of your hatred of Britain? It's rather peculiar I feel. We are the exact opposites of each other. I have been a member of this board for a month or so and have seen on a number of occasions that I am Irish and that I should learn to understand this as fact. It is however something I do not accept. You however have grown up in Britain and yearn to be an Irishman.

ballsymchugh · 19-01-2012 01:22AM

later10 wrote: »

That's terrible Fred, letting you away with that... goes to show the Irish people who shop in Tesco are traitors :pac:

In all seriousness I think you're quite right. People seem to know it's only symbolic, and yet at the same time because it's only symbolic they let their hearts rule their heads. If they were truly offended, you'd expect them to be as offended at your football shirt as your rugby shirt as at the RBS Ulster Bank logo, which although encompassing GB, itself based on the Union flag.

think the RBS logo is based on the scottish flag only. he should be safe with that!

brummytom · 19-01-2012 01:23AM

Dudess wrote: »

Earl Kitchener afaik - born in north Kerry.

I think the original idea was a relatively benign one though - to use them as kinda refugee camps during the Boer War... but I could be wrong.

Haha, fair cop!

Yeah, as far as I understand, they were basically just to try and prevent guerrilla attacks, but thousands ending up dying as a result of conditions? Damn wikipedia being down :pac:

Dudess · 19-01-2012 01:24AM

bwatson wrote: »

brummytom wrote: »

Because I'm 18 and still at school. I intend to leave this year, depending on Universities.

Out of interest, what has been the cause of your hatred of Britain? It's rather peculiar I feel. We are the exact opposites of each other. I have been a member of this board for a month or so and have seen on a number of occasions that I am Irish and that I should learn to understand this as fact. It is however something I do not accept. You however have grown up in Britain and yearn to be an Irishman.

Yeah I don't understand hatred of Britain - it's so diverse, the days of John Bull are long gone.

bwatson · 19-01-2012 01:26AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Hatred of their country of birth. Like I said.
I have not got a chip on my shoulder. I hate Britain and British people.

There is something seriously disturbing about you. Maybe its the way you can make such statements in such a blunt, candid manner.

brummytom · 19-01-2012 01:26AM

bwatson wrote: »

Out of interest, what has been the cause of your hatred of Britain? It's rather peculiar I feel. We are the exact opposites of each other. I have been a member of this board for a month or so and have seen on a number of occasions that I am Irish and that I should learn to understand this as fact. It is however something I do not accept. You however have grown up in Britain and yearn to be an Irishman.

It's not a yearning per se, I don't want to be Irish, because obviously I can't, but I don't want to be British. An identity crisis you could call it. I don't know why to be honest with you, it hasn't been passed down to me from my parents. Who knows.

Johnny Foreigner · 19-01-2012 01:33AM

bwatson wrote: »

Out of interest, what has been the cause of your hatred of Britain? It's rather peculiar I feel. We are the exact opposites of each other. I have been a member of this board for a month or so and have seen on a number of occasions that I am Irish and that I should learn to understand this as fact. It is however something I do not accept. You however have grown up in Britain and yearn to be an Irishman.

I can sum up the difference.
Your favourite film would be The Iron Lady.
My favourite film would be Hunger.
We are different people with different views, values, and morals.
Some of it is nature, some of it is nurture.
My parents were Irish Roman Catholic Republicans.
When they found out I was dating an English girl at 21, whose religion was Church of England (Protestant) they gave me an ultimatum; either dump her or they would disown me as their son.
I carried on dating her and they disowned me for the rest of their lives.
When I was 21 I didn't hate the British. I am 35 now, and I do.

starbelgrade · 19-01-2012 01:34AM

brummytom wrote: »

It's not a yearning per se, I don't want to be Irish, because obviously I can't, but I don't want to be British. An identity crisis you could call it. I don't know why to be honest with you, it hasn't been passed down to me from my parents. Who knows.

You should build your own island somewhere between Rosslare & Fishguard.

bwatson · 19-01-2012 01:36AM

brummytom wrote: »

It's not a yearning per se, I don't want to be Irish, because obviously I can't, but I don't want to be British. An identity crisis you could call it. I don't know why to be honest with you, it hasn't been passed down to me from my parents. Who knows.

There's a fair bit of distance between not feeling a part of something and actively hating it though! It must lead to a rather miserable existence I would have thought. I don't feel Irish, but don't hate the Irish as a people (just a select few) or begrudge anyone the right to call themselves Irish if that is their wish. Its just something to accept and get on with.

Dudess · 19-01-2012 01:38AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

bwatson wrote: »

Out of interest, what has been the cause of your hatred of Britain? It's rather peculiar I feel. We are the exact opposites of each other. I have been a member of this board for a month or so and have seen on a number of occasions that I am Irish and that I should learn to understand this as fact. It is however something I do not accept. You however have grown up in Britain and yearn to be an Irishman.

I can sum up the difference.
Your favourite film would be The Iron Lady.
My favourite film would be Hunger.
We are different people with different views, values, and morals.
Some of it is nature, some of it is nurture.
My parents were Irish Roman Catholic Republicans.
When they found out I was dating an English girl at 21, whose religion was Church of England (Protestant) they gave me an ultimatum; either dump her or they would disown me as their son.
I carried on dating her and they disowned me for the rest of their lives.
When I was 21 I didn't hate the British. I am 35 now, and I do.

Which British?

brummytom · 19-01-2012 01:38AM

bwatson wrote: »

There's a fair bit of distance between not feeling a part of something and actively hating it though! It must lead to a rather miserable existence I would have thought. I don't feel Irish, but don't hate the Irish as a people (just a select few) or begrudge anyone the right to call themselves Irish if that is their wish. Its just something to accept and get on with.

Maybe I was a bit extreme. I hate those who are proud of Britain/nationalists, and everything Britain as a nation has done. There are plenty of sound people, but I disagree with them when it comes to national identity. I couldn't believe the amount of hate I got when I refused to wear a poppy.

bwatson · 19-01-2012 01:38AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I can sum up the difference.
Your favourite film would be The Iron Lady.
My favourite film would be Hunger.
We are different people with different views, values, and morals.
Some of it is nature, some of it is nurture.
My parents were Irish Roman Catholic Republicans.
When they found out I was dating an English girl at 21, whose religion was Church of England (Protestant) they gave me an ultimatum; either dump her or they would disown me as their son.
I carried on dating her and they disowned me for the rest of their lives.
When I was 21 I didn't hate the British. I am 35 now, and I do.

Yeah ok. Its already become fairly clear something is deeply wrong with your personality. It seems your parents might very well be to blame. Very unfortunate. And my favourite film is Elf.

starbelgrade · 19-01-2012 01:38AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

When I was 21 I didn't hate the British. I am 35 now, and I do.

When I was younger I used to think that as you got older, you became wiser & more relaxed. But it's odd how some people become more angry & backward thinking.

Johnny Foreigner · 19-01-2012 01:38AM

brummytom wrote: »

It's not a yearning per se, I don't want to be Irish, because obviously I can't, but I don't want to be British. An identity crisis you could call it. I don't know why to be honest with you, it hasn't been passed down to me from my parents. Who knows.

You are a child of the Irish diaspora. You are Birmingham-Irish, that is why you don't feel Irish or British. You are a hybrid of the two cultures, and don't feel a sense of belonging to your place of birth. That is the reason.

Fratton Fred · 19-01-2012 01:39AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Hatred of their country of birth. Like I said.
I have not got a chip on my shoulder. I hate Britain and British people.
I prefer to mix with Irish, as I have always felt Irish not British.
Some of my London-Irish cousins married English people, and some of them married Irish. I find English people to be culturally different to Irish people, and having lived and worked in both England and Ireland, I prefer Ireland and Irish people.
What you have to understand is that London-Irish children of the Irish diaspora like me are something different; like an ethnic minority. We don't feel British, we feel Irish. We are hybrids between the two cultures, but our hyphenated identity does not have a sense of belonging as we do not feel a bond to our birthplace. This is not having a chip on our shoulder, it is yearning to feel a sense of belonging, a sense of identity which we cannot get in Britain. It is the same with many children of the Italian diaspora in London. They don't feel British either, and hate Britain. They feel Italian, they are London-Italians. I suppose you think they have a chip on their shoulder too?
The reality is that children of any ethnic group will want to mix with their own as they are displaced from a sense of belonging with their birth place. I was born in London, but I don't call it home. Ireland is my home.
Like many I am polarised, it goes with being a child of the diaspora. When your parents are immigrants you feel you hate your country of birth, and yearn to belong to their country of origin.
I was brought up in London in an Irish community. My friends at school were Irish, not English. I never felt I had anything in common with the English children. I have been to Ireland twice a year, every year of my life. From when I was a child I wanted to live in Ireland not London.
When I moved to Ireland 3 years ago, everything felt right. I had a sense of belonging. I will never go back to Britain as I hate it.

Apparantly closet homosexuals say the same thing when they first have sex with anoher man.

Dudess wrote: »

Earl Kitchener afaik - born in north Kerry.

I think the original idea was a relatively benign one though - to use them as kinda refugee camps during the Boer War... but I could be wrong.

Not quite benign, it was akin to rounding up all the nationalists in Northern Ireland so that the IRA didn't have any safe houses. It got pretty messy though when a Cholera epidemis swept through the camps killing 20,000 people.

Still, it is somewhat different to rounding up and gassing 8,000,000 Jews, Romas, Communists, disabled people.......

woodoo · 19-01-2012 01:41AM

brummytom wrote: »

It's not a yearning per se, I don't want to be Irish, because obviously I can't, but I don't want to be British. An identity crisis you could call it. I don't know why to be honest with you, it hasn't been passed down to me from my parents. Who knows.

Thats very interesting and i think more Irish could do with understanding that. But its hard to tell the difference because nobody plastered themselves in the union jack more than the Gallagher brothers from Oasis. Both their parents were 1st generation Irish.

Auvers · 19-01-2012 01:42AM

what a thread, I was posting my arguments today while waiting in the hospital for my wife to be induced

now my second child has been born a healthy baby girl, I couldn't actually give a flying fcuk about the union flag as all this sh1t pales in comparison to the miracle I just witnessed

but this thread was fun thanks lads and ladies

KeithAFC · 19-01-2012 01:43AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I can sum up the difference.
Your favourite film would be The Iron Lady.
My favourite film would be Hunger.
We are different people with different views, values, and morals.
Some of it is nature, some of it is nurture.
My parents were Irish Roman Catholic Republicans.
When they found out I was dating an English girl at 21, whose religion was Church of England (Protestant) they gave me an ultimatum; either dump her or they would disown me as their son.
I carried on dating her and they disowned me for the rest of their lives.
When I was 21 I didn't hate the British. I am 35 now, and I do.

Those Protestants... Up to no good as usual. :pac:

Fratton Fred · 19-01-2012 01:44AM

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I can sum up the difference.
Your favourite film would be The Iron Lady.
My favourite film would be Hunger.
We are different people with different views, values, and morals.
Some of it is nature, some of it is nurture.
My parents were Irish Roman Catholic Republicans.
When they found out I was dating an English girl at 21, whose religion was Church of England (Protestant) they gave me an ultimatum; either dump her or they would disown me as their son.
I carried on dating her and they disowned me for the rest of their lives.
When I was 21 I didn't hate the British. I am 35 now, and I do.

So you parents raised you in London, but didn't let you mix with any English people.

Then, when you met a local and fell in love with her, your parents disowned you because she wasn't an Irish catholic.

And it's the British that are the bastards?

i think your problems lie closer to home.

Would you wear clothing with the British Flag on it?

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