Legalise and tax soft drugs

paddyandy wrote: »

The Cult of the Dead is well represented here and they would do well to think about the effect on future generations .

The Cult of the Troll is well represented ITT.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I'd legalise all drugs and remove the criminal element altogether. It's quite obvious the current policy is not working. We need brave politicians to make brave decisions. At the end of the day if we legalise the stuff and regulate it and it doesn't work we can always revert back.

Look at all the criminal activity which would stop of substantially reduce.

What criminal activity? Heroin adicts will still steal to get their fix. Cokeheads will still be arrested for violence.

With more progressive drug policies there would be less addicts, so less crime. Treating drug addicts as criminals does no-one any favours.

Suryavarman wrote: »

Heroin addicts don't buy and take heroin because they enjoy it. They buy it to get their fix. They will only take enough to stop themselves from going cold turkey. So if it becomes cheaper they won't take more.

Interesting theory. How do they get hooked in the first place if they don't enjoy it?

Jagle wrote: »

actually no, i live under the assumption that once the drugs (weed, heroin, anything) is no longer illegal and having to be smuggled into the country by gangs charging how ever much they want for it, its value will plummet

(see calis prop 19) which was gonna adjust the costs of an oz of weed from 400dollars to 40 dollars, pricing gangs outta the market


thats why heroin will be chearper, and no the addict doesnt have a quota, but if you do a system like portugal where heroin addicts are treated as a health problem, and not a criminal problem, addicts get put into rehab..

see no heroin addict wants to be one, if you can give them the help and support they need instead of treating them like the worst scum on earth


again
please stay out of conversations you havent a clue about

Thanks for the suggestion but if it's all the same to you I'll keep posting here though because your opinion of me means nothing.

You also seem to think heroin adicts are poor victims who just appear. They got addicted in the first place because they enjoyed the high and some of them still do. They have to get their fix but if they can get it twice they will because it will mean they don't have to get as far into withdrawl.

And who in your opinion will produce and sell all these cheap drugs? People won't enter the indusrty if there's not much money in it, especially considering the obvious downside to being involved in the business

MagicSean wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion but if it's all the same to you I'll keep posting here though because your opinion of me means nothing.

You also seem to think heroin adicts are poor victims who just appear. They got addicted in the first place because they enjoyed the high and some of them still do. They have to get their fix but if they can get it twice they will because it will mean they don't have to get as far into withdrawl.

And who in your opinion will produce and sell all these cheap drugs? People won't enter the indusrty if there's not much money in it, especially considering the obvious downside to being involved in the business

I have no opinion of you, just you havent a clue what your talking about, so why talk?

1.
You Say.
You also seem to think heroin adicts are poor victims who just appear. They got addicted in the first place because they enjoyed the high and some of them still do. They have to get their fix but if they can get it twice they will because it will mean they don't have to get as far into withdrawl.

I say.
so alcoholics are addicted to being drunk, and people who smoke are addicted to cancer?
no there are chemicals in those drugs (alcohol and nicotine) that people are addicted to, heroin and the crap dealers put in it to bulk it up is what people are addicted to not the high.

and no they wont get it twice, they will get it once, and then once again a while later. but see legalisation isnt to allow these people to get ****ed daily, some of them are losts causes and this will be the case
(as some of our countries older generations are addicted to drink)
but for the large majority of heroin addicts they can get the help they need without being treated as criminals, because being addicted isnt an offence.
again if youjust do some research into portugals 10 years of decriminalisation youll see what i mean


2.
You Say.
And who in your opinion will produce and sell all these cheap drugs? People won't enter the indusrty if there's not much money in it, especially considering the obvious downside to being involved in the business

I say.
there is plenty of money in selling drugs legally, look at americas medical system. see weed costs less to make then anything, you plant some seeds, it grows and then you cut it, can be done outside for little to no costs, and at a cost per gram higher then 24carrat gold on the black market you can see where gangs are making lots of profit.

even selling at 10% this price there is still a profit to be made, so there are plently of people who will supply them, **** id do it if they laws were changed tomorrow because i know the amount of money involved.


so please educate yourself or just stop spouting BS

paddyandy wrote: »

Educating Addicts or potential Addicts has been a waste of time money and everything else .Holland is not Ireland ... Absorbing rules into the thinking is not an Irish thing at all but often ignoring them is more our way .Information on what drugs do to people is everywhere even the spectacle that sways and staggers along the street will not stop the young trying something daring and new to them .Educating has been around for years and the results are in the Cemeteries or queueing for admission .Dealing with the problem is a big industry on it's own .

lol:pac:

MagicSean wrote: »

Why not?
1.
So you think pure heroin is not addictive, just the stuff the dealers sell?

2.
Being an adict isn't an offence here either. There are very few prosecutions for posession of heroin. I've only ever seen one in my time in the courts. And methadone is available to adicts who want help. What do you mean by "legalisation isnt to allow these people to get ****ed daily"? Are you saying it should be available on prescription or something?

3.
Pharmaceutical companies have priced aids and cancer treatments as high as they could. What makes you think these drugs would be special? And who will ensure the quality of the stuff if you just expect to import it all?

4.
So anyone should be able to sell it? Do you not think distributors of this highly addictive and sought after produce should be required to have a licence of sort? Surely there should be high security requiremnts for a place which intends to store this addictive drug?

5.
Try not to get so personal.

1.
no, i said heroin is addictive, plus the stuff dealers add to it.

2.
what i mean by
"legalisation isnt to allow these people to get ****ed daily"?
is that its also to stop wasting the gardai and the courts time and money on a matter that shouldnt be illegal. there are many studies that show cannabis and excasty as not being as harmful or addictive as tobacco or alcohol and why should we continue to make criminals out of people who just prefer to get high by taking weed or pills or magic mushrooms over those who choose to drink or smoke.

3.
actually cannabis works extremely well for treatment of aids, cancer, glaucoma the list is endless and i wont go into detail of it here. "Pharmaceutical companies have priced aids and cancer treatments as high as they could." yes i will agree with you they have, its terrible that treatment is so expensive, but you see cannabis is a plant, and you cant patent the genetic makeup of a plant because its a plant so they cannot make it expensive, there is no way big pharma can take over cannabis, if you need some, get seeds and plant it.

I think these drugs would be so special because if not there wouldnt be all the people who are helped by it, 16 states + washington DC wouldnt of allowed medical cannabis to be used to treat those patients

and the quality of it? again look at how the medical scene in america works.

4.
again the american systems works well in this regard i dont see why we shouldnt copy theres.
and i wont even achknowledge your comments on the "addictive" properties of this drug, again shows your ignorance

5.
you wanna go and educate yourself on the matter at hand because you clearly have no idea, im not being personal im being honest in response to your comments.

you dont know or didnt know, or just was ignorant of the dangers of cannabis you call it an addictive drug, you dont know how other countries handle there medical or decriminalised systems so you just think it wont work..

Jagle wrote: »

other drugs such as? you mentioned heroin can you list more?
what if scientific studies show they arnt as harmful or addictive as you think? would you allow them to be legalised then?

But the taxes and levies are always gonna happen, its up to the government to make sure they can price the gangs outta the market..

and what security concerns? why are there gonna have to be armed police everywhere there is weed? its everywhere now already..

and why cant it be sold in bulk? an oz a week wouldnt be alot for some people surely they would buy alot to save on costs in bulk, thats what people do now today when its illegal and hugely expensive..

Cocaine for one. And by harmful i don't necessarily mean just harmful to the person but also harmful in what it makes them do. I've already mentioned people on cocaine and their tendancy to be violent.

If you are going to try and put major criminal gangs out of business do you expect them to just give up the trade? It's more likely they will try and prevent competition. Drug producers and distributors will be priority targets for them.

You could be right about the bulk buying but If it's not allowed for prescription drugs i can't see it being justifeid for social ones.

Jagle wrote: »

em cannabis wouldnt be a perscription drug, by making them legal there wont be anyone stopping bulk buying, which isnt a bad thing, look at people buying slabs of 24 cans instead of the 3 they need that night and then realise how stupid your point is, i buy drugs for when i want them, i dont make a call and visit a dealer everytime i want one joint...

So what restrictions, if any, would you put on cannabis sales?

Jagle wrote: »

and no i expect to put major gangs out of business by
1. the police having more time and money to do there job because they wont be chasing mike for having weed. and by the government stepping up to put gangs of these streets, 30 years ago youcouldnt of walked in brooklyn without getting mugged, now its the up and coming area, proactive police work will go along way.

To be honest, i think people overestimate the amount of time Gardaí spend dealing with simple posession cases. Decriminalising posession won't free up that much time.

Jagle wrote: »

2. gangs revenue will decrease as illegal drugs wont be able to sell there terrible drugs, consider most drugs bought here from gangs are of the worst quality, why will make pay 400 euro for an oz of bad weed, when he can take 400 euro buy himself a lil cannabis grow tent and produce lovely homegrown weed for himself for cheap, all legal.

I don't think people will grow it as much as you think. I mean apple trees are much easier to grow but fruit and veg stores are still very popular.

And if you're a dealer and a distributor moves into your area and takes your customers you can just burn out his shop and get your customers back. The level of money these people make would make this a likely scenario.

Jagle wrote: »

3. im sure there is other things thatll help too

well yes people on cocaine do tend to be violent, but what about mdma?
or hallucinogens?

I'm sure there could be arguments made for and against both of them. Unfortunately I haven't got as much experience dealing with these drugs so i can't really comment.