Prime Tyson v Prime Joe Louis - who wins ?

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 08:48PM #1

Tyson at his peak was an awesome machine....speed, power, technique he had it all...

Louis was beautiful to watch....excellent timing, colossal power and good speed....

I think louis would win by KO in the mid to late rounds after been down himself in the first couple of rounds....

I'd give the edge in power to Louis' right hand...edge in speed to Tyson....timing and counter punching to Louis

walshb · 09-01-2012 08:52PM

I love both, but folks who ignore the weight difference and obvious chin issues are imo naive. Tyson at peak was fit as a fiddle, a steel chin, and a ferocious puncher. Now, these traits are simply desperate for Joe Louis.

Two big bangers meet, and both we know will land and land flush, I will go with the guy who I believe had the better chin. Louis is not going to take a flush connection from Mike Tyson, and if he does, and is badly hurt, it is game over. Tyson's chin at peak was grade A.

15-20 lbs is the weight difference, and that is 15-20 lbs of solid power and muscle, not excess fat. If Louis had a Tyson chin then I reckon he wins. He does not. And, even if he won, it would be a very close fight. Who ever outboxed a peak Tyson? Or, came close to beating a peak Tyson? 1986-1989.

kryogen · 09-01-2012 08:54PM

For me its Tyson

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 08:57PM

walshb wrote: »

I love both, but folks who ignore the weight difference and obvious chin issues are imo naive. Tyson at peak was fit as a fiddle, a steel chin, and a ferocious puncher. Now, these traits are simply desperate for Joe Louis.

Two big bangers meet, and both we know will land and land flush, I will go with the guy who I believe had the better chin. Louis is not going to take a flush connection from Mike Tyson, and if he does, and is badly hurt, it is game over. Tyson's chin at peak was grade A.

20 lbs is the weight difference, and that is 20 lbs of solid power and muscle, not excess fat.

I don;t think you can say Tyson's chin was grade A as he was never really tested....he rarely got hit and most of his fights were over early.......Douglas chinned him when caught clean, so did Lewis and Holyfield.....

Louis fought a higher level of opposition and although the weight difference is substantial I feel the counter punching ability of Louis would win the day....the power in his right hand is first class....he had great footwork, stamina and wasted nothing.....

also you say his chin was grade A at his peak, assuming your saying his peak is when he was younger and lighter, this contradicts your previous argument where you said that Ali maturing and gaining weight in his later years made his chin a lot better?

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:00PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

I don;t think you can say Tyson's chin was grade A as he was never really tested....he rarely got hit and most of his fights were over early.......Douglas chinned him when caught clean, so did Lewis and Holyfield.....

Louis fought a higher level of opposition and although the weight difference is substantial I feel the counter punching ability of Louis would win the day....the power in his right hand is first class....he had great footwork, stamina and wasted nothing.....

I have posetd extensively on another thread realting to Tyson. Many people agree that his chin was grade A. Tucker landed some bombs, Smith too, Bruno too. Douglas pasted Mike for ten rds before Mike finally crumbled. Even the shell of a man vs. Lewis took some pasting before crumbling. Holyfield teed off on a past peak Tyson for 11 rds before the ref stopped Tyson on his feet. No, his chin is wickedly solid, and again, down to his physiology. 20 inch solid neck. Powerful shoulders and powerful legs.

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:02PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

I don;t think you can say Tyson's chin was grade A as he was never really tested....he rarely got hit and most of his fights were over early.......Douglas chinned him when caught clean, so did Lewis and Holyfield.....

Louis fought a higher level of opposition and although the weight difference is substantial I feel the counter punching ability of Louis would win the day....the power in his right hand is first class....he had great footwork, stamina and wasted nothing.....

also you say his chin was grade A at his peak, assuming your saying his peak is when he was younger and lighter, this contradicts your previous argument where you said that Ali maturing and gaining weight in his later years made his chin a lot better?

No contradiction at all. Mike Tyson was physically made to take a shot. I said this on the other thread. He to me is similar to Chuvalo and McCall.
He also weighed 218-220 lbs at peak. That is a very solid and powerful weight too.

Tyson got knocked out in Tokyo after ten rds of pasting. Same for Holyfiled's KO of Tyson. Lewis KO'd a well past it and absolute knackered Tyson.

No contradiction at all.

Louis' opposition was far from great. I don't see it being any better than Mike's. And, who from Louis comp would have had a chance against a peak Tyson?

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 09:06PM

walshb wrote: »

I have posetd extensively on another thread realting to Tyson. Many people agree that his chin was grade A. Tucker landed some bombs, Smith too, Bruno too. Douglas pasted Mike for ten rds before Mike finally crumbled. Even the shell of a man vs. Lewis took some pasting before crumbling. Holyfield teed off on a past peak Tyson for 11 rds before the ref stopped Tyson on his feet. No, his chin is wickedly solid, and again, down to his physiology. 20 inch solid neck. Powerful shoulders and powerful legs.

i think both would land but i think louis has the better shot and would take tyson out....who did a peak tyson really fight....a blown up light heavyweight was his crowning glory in Spinks.....louis fought the much better opponents.....tyson avoided foreman.....louis was the better boxer.....tyson was ferocious and great to watch but once the first few rounds passed he slowed down and then louis boxing ability would kick in and also his huge overhand right and combination punching....

it's one of my favourite fantasy matchups and its a very close call.....i wouldn't bet my house on louis but if i had to bet i'd bet on louis for his better boxing ability and better power

also meant to say how can you question Joe's chin....he had an excellent chin.....the shots he took from Baer was unbelievable.....schmeling had him down in first fight after a tremendous amount of punches.....other than that louis' chin was granite

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:14PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

i think both would land but i think louis has the better shot and would take tyson out....who did a peak tyson really fight....a blown up light heavyweight was his crowning glory in Spinks.....louis fought the much better opponents.....tyson avoided foreman.....louis was the better boxer.....tyson was ferocious and great to watch but once the first few rounds passed he slowed down and then louis boxing ability would kick in and also his huge overhand right and combination punching....

it's one of my favourite fantasy matchups and its a very close call.....i wouldn't bet my house on louis but if i had to bet i'd bet on louis for his better boxing ability and better power

Who did Louis fight?

Anyway, simple: Both are ferocious hitters. Tyson hits you clean, then if your chin isn't solid, you lose. Larry Holmes had a fairly good chin and he was almost killed. Now, past his best, but I don't care, had that shot hit a peak Holmes I still think he is suffering badly.

Tyson avoided Foreman????

How so?

Baer and Schmeling are good hitters, but Tyson is better, more varied, more ferocious and I would say the speed and power he lands at is bad news for Louis.

Billy Conn made it 13 or so rds vs. Louis. Others lasted the pace. I cannot see Tyson getting stopped. No way.

Littlehorny · 09-01-2012 09:19PM

Comparing fighters from as far back as Louis to modern day fighters is a waste of time as alot of the old timers would only be fighting at cruiserweight and light heavy today. Different era, different time, modern big men are very athletic to big guys years ago.

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:24PM

Littlehorny wrote: »

Comparing fighters from as far back as Louis to modern day fighters is a waste of time as alot of the old timers would only be fighting at cruiserweight and light heavy today. Different era, different time, modern big men are very athletic to big guys years ago.

That is what I am thinking. Tyson destroys most of Louis' foes. Destroys them. The likes of Charles and Walcott may do better, but neither have the power and size to beat Tyson. Anyone see Conn outboxing and fending off a peak Tyson?:eek:

Tyson competed in an era where his foes were 220 and above. Ignoring this is wrong. They may not be p4p as good as the men from years gone by who were lighter, but they were bigger and heavier, and that comes with challenges.

The likes of Pinky, Tubbs, Tucker, Smith, Biggs etc were all very capable and quite big guys. Tyson dominated all of them.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 09:25PM

walshb wrote: »

Who did Louis fight?

Anyway, simple: Both are ferocious hitters. Tyson hits you clean, then if your chin isn't solid, you lose. Larry Holmes had a fairly good chin and he was almost killed. Now, past his best, but I don't care, had that shot hit a peak Holmes I still think he is suffering badly.

Tyson avoided Foreman????

How so?

Baer and Schmeling are good hitters, but Tyson is better, more varied, more ferocious and I would say the speed and power he lands at is bad news for Louis.

Billy Conn made it 13 or so rds vs. Louis. Others lasted the pace. I cannot see Tyson getting stopped. No way.

conn got ko'd in 13 and in rd 8 in the return, both time by ko.....louis fought the much better opposition and won......i would give jersey joe walcott a chance against tyson....louis beat him twice.....Baer was a tremendous hitter...i would also give him a chance against tyson...

the best ppl tyson fought he lost....ie. holyfield, lewis...who did tyson beat that ws first class??....the holmes fight was a joke, he was out of shape and nearly 40.......louis had the power, had the jab, had the speed to match or nearly match, had the movement and boxing ability, tyson was stronger but louis' power was the neutraliser......

also before louis retired the first time he ko'd nearly everyone....he didn't go the distance with more than one or two...

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:29PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

the best ppl tyson fought he lost....ie. holyfield, lewis...who did tyson beat that ws first class??....the holmes fight was a joke, he was out of shape and nearly 40.......louis had the power, had the jab, had the speed to match or nearly match, had the movement and boxing ability, tyson was stronger but louis' power was the neutraliser......

Why make this a match when Tyson was post prison? Peak to peak it should be.

And, what about Tyson's power, not a possible neutraliser?

Holmes was past it, and guess what, Tyson exposed this by whacking him.

JJW and Charles cannot beat or compete with Tyson.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 09:34PM

walshb wrote: »

Why make this a match when Tyson was post prison? Peak to peak it should be.

And, what about Tyson's power, not a possible neutraliser?

Holmes was past it, and guess what, Tyson exposed this by whacking him.

JJW and Charles cannot beat or compete with Tyson.

I am comparing tyson before prison obviously?

tyson's power was awesome but louis' was better

no praise for ko'ing holmes, an old man out of shape, was sad to see, similar to spinks v ali

JJW would compete with tyson, might not win but would def make it interesting...

also you say tyson fought in an area of above 220lbs....holyfield was a blown up light heavy.....most of tyson's early opponents were below 200lbs....?

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:41PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

I am comparing tyson before prison obviously?
....?

It is not obvious io your are bringing in Lewis, 2002, and Holyfield, 1996.

Peak Tyson was pre prison, and pre Douglas really. Rooney was gone after the Spinks fight, and then the decline happened.

Tyson spent three years incarcertaed, this is a lot worse even that three years of inactivity. No wonder he lost a hell of a lot of his talent.

You should leave both mens post peak out of this. I never mentioned Louis getting ko'd by Marciano or beaten by Charles.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 09:47PM

walshb wrote: »

It is not obvious io your are bringing in Lewis, 2002, and Holyfield, 1996.

Peak Tyson was pre prison, and pre Douglas really. Rooney was gone after the Spinks fight, and then the decline happened.

Tyion spent three years incarcertaed, this is a lot worse even that three years of inactivity. No wonder he lost a hell of a lot of his talent.

You should leave both mens post peak out of this. I never mentioned Louis getting ko'd by Marciano or beaten by Charles.

i was merely asking who did tyson fight....the 2 biggest names on his record ko'd him....pre prison who did he fight??....a light heavyweight?...

the fight would take place when they are in their peak but i mentioned holyfield and lewis as no other notable fights really....

louis was a genius in the ring, so accurate, tremendous body shot and the best overhand right in history......he wasted nothing and also had an iron chin....he loved fighting bigger stronger guys, he took them apart......tyson would go all out in first round but after he tasted louis' power he will be hesitant and then louis would pick him off

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:47PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

Ino praise for ko'ing holmes, an old man out of shape, was sad to see, similar to spinks v ali

....?

Yet Larry went 12 rds with Holyfield, and beat Mercer after this. C'mon, that deserves some praise. What other heavyweight today would have done that to Holmes from 1988? You are being too critical here. What heavyweight ever would have done that to the 1988 Larry?

Look at the fight. Larry was doing okay, he simply got caught with a monster shot form a peak Tyson, who then would not let him away, unlike Snipes and Shavers from years before.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 09:51PM

walshb wrote: »

Yet Larry went 12 rds with Holyfield, and beat Mercer after this. C'mon, that deserves some praise. What other heavyweight today would have done that to Holmes from 1988? You are being too critical here. What heavyweight ever would have done that to the 1988 Larry?

Look at the fight. Larry was doing okay, he simply got caught with a moster shot form a peak Tyson, who then would not let hom away, unlike Snipes and Shavers from years before.

come on ......move on from the holmes fight....i understand it's difficult to mention other fights because there aren't really any others.......tyson didnt't have the wins against great fighters in his peak....and past his peak he lost against great fighters.....also it is accepted he avoided big george.....holmes was a shadow of his former self....a shot fighter who didn't have the legs to move away....as he was a longe range fighter if he couldn't move away from tyson the fight was over before it started

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:51PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

i was merely asking who did tyson fight....the 2 biggest names on his record ko'd him....pre prison who did he fight??....a light heavyweight?...

the fight would take place when they are in their peak but i mentioned holyfield and lewis as no other notable fights really....

louis was a genius in the ring, so accurate, tremendous body shot and the best overhand right in history......he wasted nothing and also had an iron chin....he loved fighting bigger stronger guys, he took them apart......tyson would go all out in first round but after he tasted louis' power he will be hesitant and then louis would pick him off

Again, show me any of Louis' opponents that would have troubled Tyson? Any.

Look, for either of us to be so sure is silly. I will simply say that 20 lbs extra of muscle, and a steel chin, and a massive hitter, will probably beat Joe Louis.

I really believe that the best Tyson takes anything Louis has. I saw nobody come close to even hurting Tyson from 1986-1989. Not even hurting him.

walshb · 09-01-2012 09:53PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

come on ......move on from the holmes fight....i understand it's difficult to mention other fights because there aren't really any others.......tyson didnt't have the wins against great fighters in his peak....and past his peak he lost against great fighters.....also it is accepted he avoided big george.....holmes was a shadow of his former self....a shot fighter who didn't have the legs to move away....as he was a longe range fighter if he couldn't move away from tyson the fight was over before it started

I never harped on about the Holmes fight. It was you who brought up that comment of him deserving NO praise. I simply queried this comment.

"Accepted" he avoided George? I would live to see the evidence or articles that really back this up. Anyway, no way George beats the best Tyson.

Maybe the younger George has a good chance. No way the older George.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 09:56PM

walshb wrote: »

Again, show me any of Louis' opponents that would have troubled Tyson? Any.

Look, for either of us to be so sure is silly. I will simply say that 20 lbs extra of muscle, and a steel chin, and a massive hitter, will probably beat Joe Louis.

I really believe that the best Tyson takes anything Louis has. I saw nobody come close to even hurting Tyson from 1986-1989. Not even hurting him.

who did tyson fight during 86-89 to test his chin????????????

louis had a better chin.....how can u say tyson could take louis' right hand?? it's one of the hardest punches in boxing history, harder than any of tyson's hooks.......louis was a better boxer....more accurate and bigger puncher, that's his recipe for success...

as i said in an earlier thread i wouldn't bet my house on louis as i see it as a close call but i would go for louis if i had to choose

actually i would give the older george a better chance of ko'ing tyson than the younger one, although i believe both would.....he was too big and powerful, determined, tough and could take a shot

tyson's promoter wanted nothing to do with big george....they were offered big money for the fight but turned it down

walshb · 09-01-2012 10:12PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

who did tyson fight during 86-89 to test his chin????????????

louis had a better chin.....how can u say tyson could take louis' right hand?? it's one of the hardest punches in boxing history, harder than any of tyson's hooks.......louis was a better boxer....more accurate and bigger puncher, that's his recipe for success...

as i said in an earlier thread i wouldn't bet my house on louis as i see it as a close call but i would go for louis if i had to choose

actually i would give the older george a better chance of ko'ing tyson than the younger one, although i believe both would.....he was too big and powerful, determined, tough and could take a shot

tyson's promoter wanted nothing to do with big george....they were offered big money for the fight but turned it down

Problem seems to be you are so definitive. How can you possibly tell if Louis hit harder? How?

Also, in my view Tyson's chin was Grade A. I am not the only person to think this.

I am basing my pick on my logic. Two bangers meet, one giving away 20 lbs of muscle, and both able to land flush, I will go with the heavier man with the chin that I feel is sturdier.

I also find it odd that you would bet the house, yet also think it's close?

Louis is a tremendous fighter who IMO was text book perfect with his fists. I just believe that the first rds against Tyson may never see Louis show his talents. Tyson stared so fast and aggressive. Louis was there to be hit, and clean, and he would be weighing 200 lbs. It's a bad recipe.

Now, Tyson at peak was very fit, took a hell of a shot and had a sneaky defense too. Louis I reckon gets tagged and reacts worse than Mike.

Are you really going to dismiss the 20 lbs weight difference? And, also, Baer could bang, but Mike brough a whole different kind of power and variation.

Inside Tyson would be stronger too. And, as you said, Tyson in close was a very good fighter.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 10:18PM

walshb wrote: »

Problem seems to be you are so definitive. How can you possibly tell if Louis hit harder? How?

Also, in my view Tyson's chin was Grade A. I am not the only person to think this.

I am basing my pick on my logic. Two bangers meet, one giving away 20 lbs of muscle, and both able to land flush, I will go with the heavier man with the chin that I feel is sturdier.

i don't think you can generalise so much by saying bigger man wins......how many times in history has the smaller man won??...

tyson had a good chin but do did louis so i think the chin is irrelevant...

IMO louis is the harder puncher....he is listed as the hardest puncher in history......i'm giving my opion, not stating fact......

tyson was heavier but so what.....louis was taller, had better reach, more power IMo and in the opinion of most experts....better timing, accuracy, boxing ability, counter punching and better variety and jab......every punch he threw was so controlled, no wild swings like tyson sometimes threw leaving himself exposed...

IMO louis wins by ko...mid to late rounds

walshb · 09-01-2012 10:21PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

i don't think you can generalise so much by saying bigger man wins......how many times in history has the smaller man won??...

tyson had a good chin but do did louis so i think the chin is irrelevant...

IMO louis is the harder puncher....he is listed as the hardest puncher in history......i'm giving my opion, not stating fact......

tyson was heavier but so what.....louis was taller, had better reach, more power IMo and in the opinion of most experts....better timing, accuracy, boxing ability, counter punching and better variety and jab......every punch he threw was so controlled, no wild swings like tyson sometimes threw leaving himself exposed...

IMO louis wins by ko...mid to late rounds

Well, having never seen Tyson being hurt at peak, I think it's difficult for me to see him being stopped at peak. Very fit athlete.

Listed as harder puncher means nothing. This is something that cannot be proved. Both were heavy hitters. Liston belongs too, as does Foreman and Shavers. It's not possible to tell.

I would add that both Tyson and Loius are IMO the most deadly punchers because of the speed, variation and delivery of their shots.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 10:28PM

walshb wrote: »

Well, having never seen Tyson being hurt at peak, I think it's difficult for me to see him being stopped at peak. Very fit athlete.

Listed as harder puncher means nothing. This is something that cannot be proved. Both were heavy hitters. Liston belongs too, as does Foreman and Shavers. It's not possible to tell.

I would add that both Tyson and Loius are IMO the most deadly punchers because of the speed, variation and delivery of their shots.

tyson didnt fight anyone at his peak to be hurt....his chin should of gotten better as he got older and heavier and lifted more weights....but he got stopped a few times

yes tyson had power, but i feel louis had more. im not trying to prove it i'm giving my opinion.....louis was more accurate and had the best timing i've ever seen.....louis was IMO the most complete fighter ever beside SRR and i think it's a toss up between the two.....

louis had it all and more variety and creativity than tyson....tyson had good variety but he overpowered ppl rather than picking the perfect shots like Louis.....both were great fighters but louis IMO was the greatest heavyweight bar none

walshb · 09-01-2012 10:38PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

tyson didnt fight anyone at his peak to be hurt....his chin should of gotten better as he got older and heavier and lifted more weights....but he got stopped a few times

He fought the best heavies on earth. 15/16 and 17 stone men and you say this? None capable of hurting him? Smith, a massive hitter. Bruno, a massive hitter. Thomas, a very good hitter; Tucker could also whack. Ruddock, a monster hitter. This is a bit silly now.

Again, who did Louis fight? You know about the "bum of the month?" The men Tyson fought were I bet much more dangerous.

This is getting silly.

Chin shoud have gotten better? But, what about his poorer defense, age, prison time, and stamina all being well past it? You saying when this is taken into consideration that the chin should have been better than when at peak? His chin was still taking the shots, remember?? vs.Holyfield he was stoped on his feet. Lewis was 2002, not even worth a reply.

You keep bringing in post prison Tyson...

And, Tyson did not just overpower. He knocked men out with single shots.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 10:45PM

walshb wrote: »

He fought the best heavies on earth. 15/16 and 17 stone men and you say this? None capable of hurting him? Smith, a massive hitter.
Bruno, a massive hitter. Thomas, a very good hitter; Tucker could also whack. Ruddock, a monster hitter. This is a bit silly now.

Again, who did Louis fight? You know about the "bum of the month?" The men Tyson fought were I bet much more dangerous.

This is getting silly.

Chin shoud have gotten better? But, what about his poorer defense, age, prison time, and stamina all being well past it? You saying when this is taken into consideration that the chin should have been better than when at peak?

You keep bringing in post prison Tyson...

tyson was rocked by Bruno....Tillis and Tucker gave him problems too.....

tyson was vulnerable when people fought back...

Louis fought very good fighters like Walcott, Max Baer, Bud Baer, Conn etc. etc......these are all time greats and he beat them, some of them twice...

what all time greats did tyson beat or even very good fighters did he beat in convincing fashion......spinks was best win and everyone knows he was afraid to come out of the dressing room, not the mark of a great fighter.....

the point about the chin getting better with age and added weight is your philosphy.....i don't agree with it but i was using your logic......if tyson's chin was so good he shouldn't have been knocked out by a light heavyweight

walshb · 09-01-2012 10:47PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

tyson was rocked by Bruno....Tillis and Tucker gave him problems too.....

tyson was vulnerable when people fought back...

Louis fought very good fighters like Walcott, Max Baer, Bud Baer, Conn etc. etc......these are all time greats and he beat them, some of them twice...

what all time greats did tyson beat or even very good fighters did he beat in convincing fashion......spinks was best win and everyone knows he was afraid to come out of the dressing room, not the mark of a great fighter.....

the point about the chin getting better with age and added weight is your philosphy.....i don't agree with it but i was using your logic......if tyson's chin was so good he shouldn't have been knocked out by a light heavyweight

Rocked by Bruno for all of a millisecond..

Hurt? No, no no!

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 10:50PM

walshb wrote: »

Rocked by Bruno for all of a millisecond..

Hurt? No, no no!

watch the fight, the first one, he was badly staggered and nearly went down...definitely hurt

who hurt louis beside schmeling whom he revenged with one of the most brutal performances in boxing history if not the most brutal

walshb · 09-01-2012 10:53PM

tryingmybestt wrote: »

the point about the chin getting better with age and added weight is your philosphy.....i don't agree with it but i was using your logic......if tyson's chin was so good he shouldn't have been knocked out by a light heavyweight

No no no....

Age and peak maturity and are a whole lot different than being in prison for three years, losing a lot of stamina and then being well past peak.

My views on chin are very very clear; not my fault you are picking parts and leaving out parts.

My four points still stand. They are there to see.

Age and maturity are important, but also require other things, like NOT spending three years inside, and not being well past your peak days.

tryingmybestt · 09-01-2012 10:57PM

walshb wrote: »

No no no....

Age and peak maturity and are a whole lot different than being in prison for three years, losing a lot of stamina and then being well past peak.

My views on chin are very very clear; not my fault you are picking parts and leaving out parts.

My four poinst still stand. They are there to see....

Age and maturity are important, but also require other things, like NOT spending three years inside, and not being well past your peak days.

you are totally contradicting yourself!

earlier you gave an example of Ali who's chin got better in later years as he put on wieght and got stronger......Ali like Tyson was out for more than 3 years and was past his peak......wheres your logic????????

also when tyson fought holyfield he was about 30, young for a heavy and he was in peak physical condition, weighing his peak wieght and heavily muscled....looking an even more awesome specimen than he did in his earlier years so i don't think his chin eroded due to him being old or out of shape....he was still young and in tremendous shape....it was other aspects of his game that were eroded such as movement etc......his ability to take a punch wouldn't have eroded

barney4001 · 09-01-2012 11:34PM

walshb wrote: »

Rocked by Bruno for all of a millisecond..

Hurt? No, no no!

I rmember the fight and Bruno sure did hurt Tyson, and Bruno was a fearsome hitter,but Tyson in his prime would have walked through most of the best heavies of any era with the exception of Ali maybe Frazier also

Prime Tyson v Prime Joe Louis - who wins ?

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