Denver Broncos Thread

spiralism wrote: »

End of the day, Tebow's struggles lately aside, the only QBs available in the coming offseason that i would take as a nailed on improvement are RG3, Luck and Manning(if the colts cut loose and choose to go with luck). We're not going to get within a hundred miles of any of them.

After that, given our mid-20s pick in the draft, the draft options are Nick Foles and mid round prospects like Kirk Cousins, while the free agency prospects are Matt Flynn, Jason Campbell and Vince Young. Nothing certain by any means, Foles and Flynn would certainly challenge for the number one spot though but that's a career backup on the leagues best team and a completely unproven rookie. We should look to improve the team in other areas of need (Safety, Cornerback and Running back are all areas in need of help due to the main players at each position being the wrong side of 30) and i think we will, our drafts the last two years have been dead solid.

Basically, we don't have any shot of a nailed on improvement on an unproven Tebow so he's got himself next season to prove himself pretty much. I like his chances actually.

The Colts will take Luck and I would surprised if Manning doesn't retire and join the Colts coaching staff.

Denver will prioritise Defence in the draft with the secondary and DT getting help. But as I said before I would be surprised if a QB wasn't taken in the middle-rounds (if for no other reason than a back-up is needed).

Tebow has to be able to pass from the pocket. Elway knows it and Fox knows it and it has been a constant refrain from both all season. He has a full off-season to learn his trade (and remember with the lock-out he got no help last off-season). He will then be given the year to progress or bust.

Personally I think he won't make it. Coming out of college I felt he needed to be on a strong team that could allow him to sit on the bench for 5 years and learn how to be an NFL QB (a bit like Steve Young in San Francisco). I think time will run out for Tebow and Denver will move him on after next season.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Colts will take Luck and I would surprised if Manning doesn't retire and join the Colts coaching staff.

I would be utterly shocked if that happened!

poldebruin wrote: »

Thank god we play in the AFC West, where 8-8 gets you a seeded playoff game!*

* I don't see 8 wins in that schedule for Denver, by the way.

could be, teams will naturally improve and decline out of those into next year. Possible wins i'd have would be a split with KC, OAK, SD. @ CLE, ATL, CAR, @ TB, 1 from HOU or CIN....8-8 is possible again. Realistically though, SD with a new coach and a 3rd place schedule will get them the division next year, overrated as they generally are. Raiders with no draft pretty much would do very well to manage 8 wins again and i don't see us pulling this surprise off again next season.

matthew8 wrote: »

I think the Chiefs will do well again next year. Their D was superb under Crennel and will only get better with Berry back, Charles should be back to his 2010 form next year and McCluster can be the no. 2 back, they've got loads of WRs, don't know much about their OL, and Cassel is a QB good enough to win.

Indeed. Point is though, i wouldnt fancy either our or oaklands chances next year.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He's being found out. It turned out badly for Elway really, Tebow just does enough to take them out of contention of a top QB and then bombs badly down the stetch. His hands are now tied in the off-season and going for a year with Timmy as QB is going to be painful.

He may have played poorly over the last 2 games but they won the division??
Objectively, it's a great season for Denver. They shouldn't have been anywhere near the playoffs. Only one team can win the Superbowl, for a lot making the playoffs is a good season. Something to build on.
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vetinari wrote: »

They shouldn't have been anywhere near the playoffs. '

and what do you base this on ?


any team that adds 4 top 70 draft picks to their roster and plays in a mediocre conference should be expecting to make the turnaround to at worst be in the hunt for the playoffs.

The fact is when people are pragmatic and get beyond the hyperbole there is only one outcome that can be reached.

Tim Tebow is not currently good enough to start in the NFL.

• 124 yards per game average Dead last in the league
• 46.5% Completion % Dead last in the league
• 33 Sacks allowed 12th most and he only played half a season ...
• 6.38 yards per attempt 28th in the league.

The facts speak for themselves. Anybody denying it either has a man crush on Tebow or just doesnt have the balls to admit they are wrong.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Manning retiring all comes down to his injury. I'm honestly not sure he will come back from it. If he is given the all clear he will definitly be back though.

The issue with the injury Manning has is that he could (technically) get the all clear, yet one hit could paralyse him. After spending this season working (unofficially) as part of the coaching staff the logical thing for him and the Colts is for Manning to move into coaching and give Luck the start next September. Manning is one of the smartest players ever to play the game and has the smarts to make a very good coach. I think he'd be foolish to risk it all to get back on the field.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Edit: Not going off topic complete but here is Denver schedule next year.

Brutal. Tebow will really need to imrpove to keep pace with alot of those strong offences.

Of course he has to improve - every Broncos fan knows he has a long way to go to even become a competent passer

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Denvers over-rated D will also need to imrpove alot

Who is over-rating the Denver defence? If anything they over-achieved this year. The defensive side of the ball has been a disaster. The Broncos have had seven defensive coordinators in the last seven years. Overall the defensive draft picks have been brutal with only Williams, Elvis and Miller coming through as starters in the same seven year period.

The Broncos started the year with a secondary that had three guys aged 33, 33 and 38 and a rookie who can't tackle. They don't have a DT worth talking about and DJ Williams is playing in his natural LB position for the first time in five years. One further thing of note - Denver's last three defeats all came after Von Miller wrecked his thumb and has been inhibited with a cast since.

The Broncos have a long way to go to improve on defence and hopefully with Fox in charge we might actually draft a few decent defensive players instead of the donkeys drafted by Shanahan and McDaniels.

bruschi wrote: »

Is 8-8 seen as a successful season?

After the shambles left behind by McDaniels and finishing 2-14 last year - yes it was. Indeed who would have bet on denver winning 7 of the last 11 games after starting 1-4?

bruschi wrote: »

But what would worry me most was the last 3 games, stuttering into the playoffs with teams having resoundly shut down the offense once they figured it out. There was no plan B.

Let's put this into perspective -
1. The system was changed mid-season after Orton got benched
2. Tebow is (and could well continue to be) limited as a QB which limited what the coaching staff could do
3. It was inevitable that opposing teams would figure out how to stop Tebow and the offense. The only thing that surprised me was that it took nine games for it to happen.
4. Of course there was no plan B - the only option would have been to bench Tebow in favour of Brady Quinn????

bruschi wrote: »

Honestly, I woudnt see it myself. To compare with a similar situation where Carolina (6-10 in a much tougher division) have a new QB, I can see them improving. I can see a future for them and a QB who is adapting and improving as the season goes on. Then take other teams. Jags (5-11 in a weakish division this year)? Not so sure. I dont think Gabbart is the answer there, and would need to upgrade to make a difference. Rams (2-14) Jury is still out. Potential, but the draft will be interesting.

All relevent - but the Broncos have many more issues to deal with than just QB - indeed it is not even the biggest problem on the team. The Broncos badly (and I mean badly) need help at DT (X2), CB, SS, FS, LB, OL, RB, TE and WR

bruschi wrote: »

The off season will be interesting for sure, but until Tebow can throw in the pocket, then Denver wont be improving on 8-8. To hear defences 'make a QB throw in a pocket' just is all wrong. There is only so far will and determination will bring you. It counts for a lot, but skill level is needed in far more abundance.

Every Broncos fan is acutely aware of that fact - and the pure Tebow fans need to be ignored on his ability. Tebow is an outstanding athlete. He has had very little work since he was drafted. McDaniels ignored him after drafting him and then he lost the complete off-season with the lock-out. He was brutal in practice and Fox demoted him to No.3 in pre-season. IF (and it is a big IF) Tebow develops into a decent passer of the ball and the Broncos coaching staff are able to build an offensive roster and scheme around him, then his undoubted talent could lead to him doing serious damage to opposing teams in the future.

Personally I think he will fail. I said before that I think Tebow needed to sit and learn for four or five years before starting. He didn't get that in Denver (which is why I didn't want Denver to draft him) and I think he will run out of time.

poldebruin wrote: »

Ageed, Tebow is not Elway's guy. He would have liked to pick his own guy and build the team around that. I could imagine he is thinking that next year could be a year wasted having to give Tebow his shot.

I disagree that it will be a wasted year. The Bronocs need to improve in so many areas that the entire team has to progress. If Tebow wasn't around and the Broncos had to draft a QB this year, who is to say that that QB pick wouldn't be a bust (and there are a lot more busts than successes with QB's). Elway's job is not to get from A to B in one or two years - his job is to bring pride back to a franchise that has lost it's way since he retired, make it a team that consistantly challanges for honours, turn Mile High into a fortress and put the Broncos back on the map as one of the toughest teams to beat. That will take time and only time will tell if he and Xanders (and Fox) can do it.

poldebruin wrote: »

I'd disagree that any team that adds 4 of the top 70 draft picks should expect a turnaround - with or without playing in a weak conference. We've seen for years that bad teams draft badly. It doesn't seem to matter how many or in what position they take players, they don't work out (see Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit), so I wouldn't (and didndn't) expect Denver to make the playoffs or come close. I was unsurprised by the 1-4 start.
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Your missing my point. A team should expect to make a turnaround or at least progress. the fact that some teams dont year in year out due to making bad draft choices is irrelevent to the argument.

That is the whole premise of the draft process to allow teams make the turnaround. So a team with 4 top 70 picks in a weak division should expect to move to a position where they expect to challenge for a playoff spot.

Because some teams make bad personnel choices doesnt change that basic premise.

poldebruin wrote: »

Not at all. You only have to be the 32nd best quarterback in the league (or more importantly - you only need to be the best quarterback on your team!) and you are deserving of being a starter. I'm not saying you'll hold that job for long, but you deserve your shot.

The guys mentioned as being "bad" are not one and done guys. Quarterbacks are in short supply year after year, and we have seen Kerry Collins, Jake Delhomme come out of retirement to fill a need at the position. I'm just saying that I think you are overestimating what it takes to be a starting QB in the NFL. There are 32 teams - You don't have to be elite, you don't have to necessarily be good, you just have to be better than other alternatives.

I do think Tebow has been awful this month, but I still think he is deserving of being the Denver starting QB - if he doesn't deserve it, then who does? - Brady Quinn? He helped get them to the playoffs, he should be the starter.

I take your point to a certain degree who is the best QB in Denver right now. Id agree with you that its Tebow based on what Quinn did with the Browns. However Id only say that based on his running ability which frankly is an inditment of both QB's.

I also take your point that you only need to be the 32nd best QB to be a starter however it also goes without saying that if you are the 32nd best QB your not going to have that job long nor are you deserving of having that job long.

If Im Denver I'm looking to take a QB in the draft or in Free Agency though as Tebow has proven now for half a season that he cannot score enough points in this league or be efficent enough throwing the ball to be succesful long term.

the guy has moxy and intangibles and you cant want to do anything but pull fo rhim but at some point you have to face the facts hes limited as an NFL level QB.

I reckon he could make one hell of a coach in future though.

poldebruin wrote: »

This is the poisoned chalice for Denver now - pick a QB with a high pick and you are seen to be undermining Tebow. Pick one low, to groom, and he would need to be an option-style QB that can step in if Tebow gets hurt. They can't run 2 seperate offensive playbooks.

If Tebow does not significantly improve (and it would have to be a huge improvement) as a passer, it will leave Denver and John Elway in an awkward spot.

totally agree. But honestly if your getting paid to run the Front Office you have to be prepared to make tough decisions. Just as Man U did with Ronaldo, the Cavs did with LeBron, Green Bay did with Farve etc

I think it would be pointless for Denver to draft a project QB to be honest. They either draft high or get in a FA or suck it and see what an offseason as starter does for Tebows game knowing worst case if he tanks they can hope to get Matt Barkley the following year.

my view is that he will tank so i guess its a case of backing him and drafting replacements for an ageing secondary this year and a RB, WR and O Line help. if he fails at least you have tooled up in such a way you can trade up in the following first round to get your guy.

if he succeeds then I guess your quids in,

When you think about it Elway is almost forced into committing to Tebow next year as is Fox. Personally Id make the ballsy decision to cut him and get in Flynn (gamble as it is) and draft by need from there.