Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

1187188190192193334

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Evra reported to the ref with Fergie that he was abused five times but in the interview with Canel this changed to ten times.

    and the finding decided it was used seven times

    "In total, Mr Suarez used the word "negro" or "negros" seven times in the penalty area. On each occasion, the words were insulting. On each occasion, Mr Suarez breached Rule E3(1). Accordingly, the Charge is proved"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Morzadec wrote: »
    ''Sir Alex Ferguson and Patrice Evra entered my dressing room to register an official
    complaint about a comment made to Patrice Evra by Liverpool player Luis Suarez.
    During a coming together in the penalty area in the second half of play, Luis Suarez
    is alleged to have said to Patrice Evra "I don't talk to you because you ****''


    Well that's completely false - there's no word in Spanish that is as loaded and has the racial connotations of '******' in English which is highly offensive.

    I really think Evra misinterpreted Suarez's comment, overreacted and had to follow through with his overreaction.

    its covered in the report. evra initially thought it meant ******, but accepts that it did not


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Hedman wrote: »
    The crux of the issue is that Suarez has admitted he used the term "negro". Negro is a racial term, therefore Suarez is guilty of using a racial term. Quite simple really, where it gets complicated is how it was intentioned and the reports says that the FA brought in language experts to determine that and according to them it was clear he didn't mean it in a nice way.

    Your taking the piss right ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    It's all a load of hearsay, conjecture with no evidence or eye witness testimony other than from the people directly involved. If it was a court of law the case would have be thrown out.

    Opr


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 833 ✭✭✭omniscient_toad


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Point 272 is interesting. Evra took offence to the word/words he heard Suarez speak in Spanish based on Evra's understanding of what the word meant in Italian.





    Ahh that's alright then, use a different language for the meaning of the word other than the one it was spoken in.:rolleyes:

    I don't really understand why people are focusing on this in an attempt to defend Suarez :confused: , even without using the term "ni**er" telling someone that you kicked them because they were black doesn't really impress in a racism case. As a non Liverpool/United fan I would have though the key issue with that line is that Suarez claims he never said it at all and that Comolli and Kuyt subsequently misheard him when he referred to it after the match.

    If Suarez is to be believed Evra is lying about the existence of the sentence in any shape or form rather than the technical use of the word "black" in it.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    opr wrote: »
    It's all a load of hearsay, conjecture with no evidence or eye witness testimony other than from the people directly involved. If it was a court of law the case would have be thrown out.

    Opr

    "Mr Comolli confirmed under cross-examination
    that he believed that what he was told by Mr Suarez in this meeting was that the words he
    had used to Mr Evra translated as "Why, because you are black"."


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    The commission did not take Suarez to be an "impressive" witness because he claimed that the elbow pinch he applied to Evra was meant to be done to diffuse the situation, when in their eyes it was probably intended as the opposite. This essentially assassinated his character in their eyes and they judged the rest of his evidence on that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭barone


    Morzadec wrote: »
    ''Sir Alex Ferguson and Patrice Evra entered my dressing room to register an official
    complaint about a comment made to Patrice Evra by Liverpool player Luis Suarez.
    During a coming together in the penalty area in the second half of play, Luis Suarez
    is alleged to have said to Patrice Evra "I don't talk to you because you ****''


    Well that's completely false - there's no word in Spanish that is as loaded and has the racial connotations of '******' in English which is highly offensive.

    I really think Evra misinterpreted Suarez's comment, overreacted and had to follow through with his overreaction.


    this is my opinion also.. they called each other names, neither are racist.

    and louis never once called him ******.. black man yes.. the report itself refers to evra as a french black man, and suarez as a south american..

    and all of this is because one plays for utd,and one plays for liverpool, one is black and one isnt.

    im done reading anymore of it. HANDBAGS.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Ok someone please compare quotes in post numbers :

    #5671. and #5672

    And tell me the monumental cock up the FA have made .

    Winner gets half a Twix and a packets of Tayto.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    FFS this is unbelievable :mad:
    321. The impression created by these inconsistencies was that Mr Suarez's evidence was not, on
    the whole, reliable. He had put forward an interpretation of events which was inconsistent
    with the contemporaneous video evidence. He had changed his account in a number of
    important respects without satisfactory explanation. As a result, we were hesitant about
    accepting Mr Suarez's account of events where it was disputed by other credible witnesses
    unless there was solid evidence to support it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    5starpool wrote: »
    I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. Still looks like one mans word against another. Mentions having other non broadcast footage, but doesn't say yet whether this proves Evra's case.

    Same here, something about the verdict based on the balance of probabilities but stronger evidence required, yet still based on probabilities! :confused:

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,836 ✭✭✭Sir Gallagher


    Ah damn it anyway, weekend was going so well football wise.

    I do love some utd fans' reaction to the whole event. Lads who I've known to use much more colourful language than Suarez did even by Evra's account are all of a sudden at the forefront if the equal rights movement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,337 ✭✭✭✭monkey9


    As far as i can see, they've come to their conclusion by taking Evra's word over Suarez. They were more impressed with him??

    Em....where's the actual proof? Suarez could have broke down crying when giving his testimony, it doesn't make a difference. Where's the actual proof?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Evra told us that he began the conversation by saying "Concha de tu hermana". Mr Evra's
    evidence was that this is a phrase used in Spanish like when you say "****ing hell" in
    26
    English, but the literal translation is "your sister's pussy". Mr Suarez did not hear Mr Evra
    say this. One of the video clips that we have seen, taken from a close up angle behind the
    goal, does appear to support Mr Evra's evidence that he started the conversation with this
    comment.

    Sexist!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    FFS FFS FFS :mad: :mad:

    It is a mental kangaroo court judgement
    340. Mr Suarez plays with black players in the Uruguay national team and has no problems
    with them. When they are on international duty, the families are together. When Mr
    Suarez was in South Africa for the 2010 World Cup, he became involved in a charity in
    conjunction with the black Cameroon goalkeeper, Carlos Kameni, and Andres Iniesta, the
    Spain and Barcelona player. Each of them was filmed meeting a young South African who
    played football as part of a project with young black and white children to encourage
    solidarity and stamp out racism. The central theme of the film, which the Commission
    watched, is that the colour of a person's skin does not matter, they can all play together as
    a team. It shows Mr Suarez meeting one of the young footballers. The DVD of the film is
    advertised on Mr Suarez's Facebook page, via which it can be bought with all the money
    going to help the charity.
    341. Mr Suarez told us that he has never had any allegation of this nature made against him by
    any fellow professional or official associated with football whether on or off the pitch. He
    is saddened by Mr Evra's allegations and deeply concerned as to the implications of these
    allegations on his playing career, personal relationships and his charity work.
    342. We asked ourselves whether a player with this background would make the comments
    that Mr Evra alleged. We took all these points fully on board and thought long and hard
    about them before finding the Charge proved. We dealt with them in the following way.
    343. Mr Suarez's background as described by him in his statement raised doubts in our minds,
    in the first instance, as to whether he would ever make the alleged comments. We
    recognised that Mr Suarez's background together with the seriousness of the Charge,
    meant that a greater burden of evidence was required to prove the Charge. We formed the
    view that, overall, the preponderance of the evidence favoured the FA's case.
    344. We took into account the fact that it is a real albeit unattractive trait of human nature that
    we all act from time to time, to greater or lesser degrees, in ways which may be out of
    character. This is especially so when we feel under pressure, or challenged, or provoked,
    87
    or pushed into a corner. We do and say things that we are not proud of and regret, and
    that we might try and deny, sometimes even to ourselves. We occasionally do or say
    things that we would be embarrassed to admit to family or friends. It is not inconsistent to
    have black colleagues and friends and relatives, and yet say things to strangers or
    acquaintances about race or colour that we would not say directly to those closer to us.
    345. Bearing these considerations in mind, whilst we were initially doubtful that Mr Suarez
    would make the comments alleged by Mr Evra, we proceeded on the basis that the factors
    relied on in relation to Mr Suarez's background and experiences did not mean that he
    could not or would not act in this way. We weighed these considerations together with all
    the evidence when asking ourselves whose account was more probable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Lets face it, unless Suarez had been found not guilty you wouldnt have accepted the decision.

    No need to beat around the bush here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Evra apparently had the more stand up and trustworthy witnesses....including a guy who paid his mistress to have an abortion.

    Your username is extremely apt


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,606 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    I can't see how this ruling can stand if it relies solely on Evra's word against Suarez's. Whatever about the 8-game ban, I can see Suarez taking a defamation case against Evra and the FA in the courts.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    Someone stop me reading any more of this

    :mad:
    363. Mr Evra denied using the words "South American" when speaking to Mr Suarez. When it
    was put to him that he had done so, he seemed genuinely bemused. He said to address
    someone as "South American" in this way is not something he would do. He said "What's
    91
    the sense? What's the point?". There was no evidence of Mr Evra using this phrase on any
    other occasions.
    364. We found that Mr Evra did not use the words "South American" when speaking to Mr
    Suarez. The language experts were not familiar with its use as an insult, Mr Evra's denial
    of his alleged use of it was plausible, we found Mr Suarez's evidence unreliable in many
    respects, and we found Mr Evra generally to be a credible witness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    Nice of the FA to release this report the day United lose at home to Blackburn


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    Here is the most relevant bit, Suarez was defo judged based on Evra's account:
    379. We accepted Mr Evra's account of these exchanges. The principal reasons for doing so
    were the following. First, Mr Evra was a credible witness whose evidence was not
    seriously undermined in any material respect, as explained above. Secondly, we found Mr
    Suarez, in contrast, to be an unreliable witness on critical parts of his evidence. His
    evidence was inconsistent with contemporaneous evidence in the form of video footage,
    especially with regard to his claims of pinching as an attempt to defuse the situation, and
    using the word "negro" in a conciliatory and friendly way. He changed his account over
    time in a number of respects. This all combined to cast grave doubt on the reliability of the
    remainder of his evidence on the main factual disputes.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 34,977 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    kryogen wrote: »
    Lets face it, unless Suarez had been found not guilty you wouldnt have accepted the decision.

    No need to beat around the bush here.

    Bullshít!

    If and when ACTUAL PROOF - not one side of an arguement - comes out, then I think we all will accept the guilt or innocence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    At the time of these exchanges, there were other players in the six-yard box. These
    included David De Gea, the Manchester United goalkeeper, Jonny Evans, the Manchester
    United defender who was marking Dirk Kuyt, and Mr Kuyt himself. Mr De Gea, who is
    Spanish, said that he did not hear any exchange between Mr Evra and Mr Suarez. It is
    clear that there was an exchange of some sort between Mr Evra and Mr Suarez. We found
    it unsurprising that Mr De Gea did not hear any exchange. He appears from the video
    footage to be focused on the corner, and looking mainly in that direction. Mr Kuyt said
    that he could not hear what was being said by Mr Evra and Mr Suarez but it seemed clear
    to him that Mr Evra was trying to provoke Mr Suarez so he (Mr Kuyt) stepped between
    them and told Mr Evra to leave Mr Suarez alone.
    Mr Evra's evidence is that up to this point Mr Suarez had used the word "negro" or
    “negros” five times in the goalmouth: "Because you are black", "I don't speak to blacks"
    and "Okay, blackie, blackie, blackie".

    So nobody heard the exchange, even the United goalie.

    What's more, the referee never even heard the second exchange where Evra told him "he just called me black".

    Bizarre if that's what the conviction is based on.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Devilman40k


    The FA have left themselves wide open to attack on this. I honestly thought they might have some evidence to prove Suarez' guilt but one mans word against another...bloody hell. So LFC and Suarez could end up taking this as far as the High Court based on this,if that happens I honestly cannot see him serving the ban at all. None of the evidence presented could stand up in court!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,952 ✭✭✭Morzadec


    kryogen wrote: »
    Lets face it, unless Suarez had been found not guilty you wouldnt have accepted the decision.

    No need to beat around the bush here.

    If there was video evidence, or testimony from players stating they heard racial terms used in an abusive context I would be denouncing Suarez.

    It's just that (still) as far as I can see, it boils down to one man's word against another's.

    There's talk about video evidence and I'm fully willing to change my opinion if this proves something different.

    The FA have concluded that Suarez used the word 'negro' 7 times. Where is the evidence/how have they concluded this?? It would be incredibly difficult to defend the abusive and racial context of this word if this is proven, even if it's not as extreme as the word '******' in English.

    That's what I want to know. I'm still reading the article and this version of events seems to come from just one source - Patrice Evra.

    As OPR said, if this was a court of law Suarez would be completely acquited


  • Subscribers Posts: 32,867 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    lol
    Mr Marriner did not know
    who Mr Comolli was when he entered the referee's room


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    The video evidence was used not to confirm that Suarez said what Evra accuses him of, but that there was enough TIME to say all of it!

    Holy fook, it took more to put the Guildford Four away!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    :mad:

    Do you want the best bit ....

    Goto page 108 and read section 437.

    Sweet Jesus what are the FA doing ??

    Sorry I can't cut and paste from my phone .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    Bullshít!

    If and when ACTUAL PROOF - not one side of an arguement - comes out, then I think we all will accept the guilt or innocence.

    You mean like Saurez admitting he called him a Negro?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    mixednuts wrote: »
    :mad:

    Do you want the best bit ....

    Goto page 108 and read section 437.

    Sweet Jesus what are the FA doing ??

    Sorry I can't cut and paste from my phone .



    Here ya go
    The second mitigating factor was that Mr Evra started the confrontation in the goalmouth
    and Mr Suarez reacted to it. It is important to point out that Mr Evra's conduct in starting
    the confrontation was in response to being fouled, which involved being kicked on a knee
    which had caused him trouble in the past. Mr Evra did not touch Mr Suarez and, whilst he
    used an offensive phrase which Mr Suarez did not hear, Mr Evra did not use any words
    which referred to Mr Suarez's ethnic origin, colour, race or nationality. Nevertheless, he
    was the initiator of the confrontation at this moment.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement