Are cover bands "Thunder Stealers"?

BoardsUser836 · 15-12-2011 08:39PM #1

Not sure if I'll get flamed for this, but I just don't get cover bands lads, you watch them set up and they literally will play what you heard on the speakers in the bar when you walk in there and they get paid for it (sometimes ridiculous prices e.g. €7-€15 . This is why I'm all about originality, there are too many covers, sound-a-likes and samplers now.

Rigsby · 15-12-2011 09:17PM

dodgemaguire wrote: »

there are too many covers

There would not be, if there was no demand for them. So why shoot the messenger ?

unclebill98 · 15-12-2011 09:22PM

Some folks choose to listen to live music they can dance to rather than listening to some band they've never heard of spending 2-5 min between songs and catering in their own self indulgence rather than trying to entertain.

If you don't like it go see a original band, simples.

raindog.promo · 16-12-2011 12:46AM

unclebill98 wrote: »

Some folks choose to listen to live music they can dance to rather than listening to some band they've never heard of spending 2-5 min between songs and catering in their own self indulgence rather than trying to entertain.

If you don't like it go see a original band, simples.

Is this your view of all live originals bands in Ireland?

Sergio · 16-12-2011 01:02AM

There both two separate things coverbands and original bands.Its like comparing apples to oranges.Original bands want to be creative and make new music and thats fine,coverbands are all about entertaining and earning a few extra few bob in their back pocket.nothing wrong with either but some lucky original bands who manage to get a recording contract and sell their original music can earn alot of money in the process too.
I dont understand why some people get het up about coverbands though.Different strokes for different folks as they say!

unclebill98 · 16-12-2011 11:07AM

raindog.promo wrote: »

Is this your view of all live originals bands in Ireland?

Eh.... I used the word "some"

Yes and no,

There are some of both who are guilty of that :-)

There a some great original bands out there and I've spent this year working with very many off them.

When it comes down to simply entertaining random folks in a bar a cover band is what's needed.

To keep inline with the op post, where a venue places a cover band on instead of an originals it's for the very point of entertaining a general audience.

If you don't like cover bands but frequent these type of venues then leave and find a bar/pub that has originals, not many I might add would be having an originals band.

J_E · 16-12-2011 02:34PM

unclebill98 wrote: »

Some folks choose to listen to live music they can dance to rather than listening to some band they've never heard of spending 2-5 min between songs and catering in their own self indulgence rather than trying to entertain.

This is the attitude that's ruining what could be a thriving music scene in Ireland.

unclebill98 · 16-12-2011 05:09PM

Really......

So it's the fault of people just wanting to be entertained?

I think I'll just grab my coat and leave this tread.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4 · 16-12-2011 05:35PM

dodgemaguire wrote: »

Not sure if I'll get flamed for this, but I just don't get cover bands lads, you watch them set up and they literally will play what you heard on the speakers in the bar when you walk in there and they get paid for it (sometimes ridiculous prices e.g. €7-€15 .

Ive been a cover band for the last 5 years, and I really can see where you are coming from. I dont want to sound like I big headed, or like I have an ego, (because I really dont) but a lot of cover bands are pretty boring, and just go through the motions, with little or no crowd interaction.

Actually, your point about a cover band playing the same songs that you heard on the pubs speakers, in my opinion, thats the sign of a good cover band. As in, playing what the crowd wants to hear. A cover band needs to have a clear market, and play songs to please that market. We aim to please an age group of 17-30 year olds, so out list if full of Kings of Leon, killers, Lada gaga, Kasabian (more if i had my way

.

As for the price, its all relative to how big a name the band is in that area. The big cover bands like moose, j90, gurilla radio, big generator, whitewater... where ever they play, they draw in a massive crowd so they are worth the price.

dodgemaguire wrote: »

This is why I'm all about originality, there are too many covers, sound-a-likes and samplers now.

I rarly get to see too many original bands these days, which is a shame. But, same can be said for a lot of original band sounding the same!

unclebill98 wrote: »

Some folks choose to listen to live music they already know

raindog.promo · 16-12-2011 06:41PM

unclebill98 wrote: »

Eh.... I used the word "some"

Yes, you did. to be exact, you said "some band...." which infers all bands.

English language, 'tis weird, innit?

Sweeney Mongrels on Dame Street does gigs all the time for local Irish bands and the place is always packed.

Going Forward · 17-12-2011 07:31PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

This is the attitude that's ruining what could be a thriving music scene in Ireland.

Yes and no. A cover band can be great entertainment, and an original band, well they are asking for a leap of faith from a crowd.
It is a big ask to expect a crowd to give serious attention and a respectful critique to something they have never heard before, particularly if the venue is covers venue.
There can be a lot of navel gazing with original s only bands and it can be very difficult to break through unless the material is really good and well delivered.
I would advise more inexperienced originals bands to always have a good mix of covers in the set and the more jarred the crowd gets test out the originals on them!

mooliki · 17-12-2011 10:55PM

It should also be pointed out that plenty of original bands will start out life as a cover band, or at least individual members will learn their craft while playing covers or in covers bands. It's same as any creative art form. You learn by following your influences, mimicking those that inspire you, before developing your own style. I think cover bands are important for musicians to learn what it means to play in a live environment with other musicians, before gaining the confidence to work their own material. Of course, not to suggest that there's any form singular progression that automatically leads to writing original music. Some people are obviously happy to play music solely because they want to play covers. And if there's an audience, great.

son.of.jimi · 18-12-2011 08:28PM

Cover bands, in my opinion, are a necessary evil.

I've played in a few and the band i'm currently in do cover gigs as well as working on our own gigs and songs.

I do however disagree with cover bands playing note for note covers and trying to replicate every song on their cover set. Originality can be incorporated into cover sets and in most cases with our gigs, we entertain the sheep and prick up the ears of the muso's.

Cover gigs finance our own gigs, easy way to buy gear, pay for rehearsals, studio time, promo material etc etc and no-one is out of pocket or left with the bill.

Sneaking our songs into the covers set is handy too, which is very handy for building up our rep outside of the music scene in Dublin.

They also help the band play & perform better together too.

Sky King · 18-12-2011 08:33PM

I don't think they are an evil. There is a requirement for people to provide live entertainment - what's wrong with that?

Jusrt like there's a requirement for a guy controlling the music for the night, reading the crowd and ensuring that people have a good time on the dancefloor. That's the DJ. I am not angry he is not playing live even though I am a musician. In fact it's most likely not even his own pre recorded music. Who cares? Theres a requirement for DJs and cover bands and for many people it's just a job.

However if someone thought they were totally amazing because they were a DJ or they play in a covers band I would be very amused.

markthedrum1 · 19-12-2011 02:26AM

I've been involved with several original and cover bands over the years and know many players from both sides. I've found that in my opinion if you look a cover band at their first gig and an original band, you'll find that the cover band will be far more professional on the day.

Original bands spend as said before, 2-5mins between songs, sometimes their songs are self indulgent. If something goes wrong, gear-wise there's a panic and everyone else is to blame.

Also in this country the only way to make it big in the original band scene is by playing indy music. Metal is out the window not enough of an interest and if ya go near promoters they'll either put ya in with indy bands or do a monthly or bi-monthly metal night.

Check out a cover band called Bluemoose one of the biggest cover bands in the country and see how they have approached the cover scene a lot differently either creating new versions of covers or finding really cool versions of songs, eg a Backstreet Boys song covered by the Glam Metal band Steel Panther, "I Want It That Way" or the song "99 Red Balloons" covered by the band Goldfinger.

Original bands cater for themselves, cover bands cater for everyone, it's a very tough business and even tougher with the recession. Bars cry poverty, the crowds taste change from venue to venue and wedding gigs are hateful but I'm not willing to "pay to play"!!!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4 · 19-12-2011 11:20AM

markthedrum1 wrote: »

Check out a cover band called Bluemoose one of the biggest cover bands in the country and see how they have approached the cover scene a lot differently either creating new versions of covers or finding really cool versions of songs, eg a Backstreet Boys song covered by the Glam Metal band Steel Panther, "I Want It That Way" or the song "99 Red Balloons" covered by the band Goldfinger.

Nail on the head. They are one of, if not the best cover band in the country, for that reason. Its the little things they do that caters for evenyone. They are the center of attention, not just background music.

paligulus1 · 21-12-2011 12:10PM

In my point of view, from the point of view of the player, there should be no difference in playing a cover song and an original song. Once a song is written and arranged, it still down to the player to interpret and present the song to an audience.

If the interpretation and presentation is bland, then it dosn't matter if the song is original or a cover. We've all seen examples of cover versions of naff or guilty plessure songs that sound amazing when re-interpreted.

Cheers,

novarock · 21-12-2011 12:40PM

people pay cover bands to entertain them for two hours. there would be nothing worse than listening to two hours of music that you dont know, therefore there is no market for originals bands to play for two hours.

People like to hear live music. If its original you could entertain somebody for maximum 30 minutes with songs they dont know, after that they will get bored..

theinhouseband · 21-12-2011 04:42PM

in a nutshell, Imitation is the best form of flattery, If it wasnt for covers, most of the bands on the scene would be unemployed. It takes GREAT skill to select a set that is pleasing and entertaining to wide variety of customers, sometimes even harder than original artists.

Cover bands HAVE to be good, otherwise, if compared to the original, they would sound S**t.

An Original band can sound S**t, but who´s to say it is or not, maybe that was the way it was written.

It never boils down to the musicians opinion, it is ALWAYS the opinion of the crowd, and the guy with the readies at the end of the night!!!! If someone wanted galway girl 12 times a night, they would get it, as much as i dislike the song, you bite the bullet and put 100% into making it sound good!

Thunder Stealers is very harsh in my opinion. Cover bands have their gigs, and Originals have theirs, and never the twain shall meet. sure why not hit on DJ´s while ur there, i mean, they just stand in a box with a laptop downloading MP3´s/movies whatever to play to a crowd and get paid pretty damn well for wearing out the spacebar using Virtual DJ (Which Automixes for them BTW) so technically they are babysitters.

Cover bands have the expense of VANS, PA, DIESEL, INCOME TAX, IMRO, CALLS TO VENUES ETC to worry about, so i think what they charge is reasonable.

Originals get RECORD CONTRACTS, HIRED SOUND & TECH´s, SOUND ENGINEERS, PROMOTORS, TAX BREAKS & INCENTIVES, CD SALES etc etc etc etc etc

Pubs pay money for entertainment, and to entertain means you have to be Diverse, which means covers!!!!!!

20 years playing music and never earned a rex playing originals..............

Go Figure!!!

theinhouseband · 21-12-2011 05:59PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

This is the attitude that's ruining what could be a thriving music scene in Ireland.

The music scene is thriving in Ireland, but let me stress a point to you....

Unless an original band is well rehearsed, they will go into a venue, spend the first 5 mins talking, tuning up, 1-2´ing, deciding on a song, tell a story about the song, do the song, then repeat the process, this is FACT, 1/4 of the time spent on stage is used talking.

COVER BAND: Amp on.... Good evening.......... BOOM!!!!! - 10 seconds
End of song... drummer counts in, Next song!!!

Audiences go off the boil very quickly,unless it´s full pelt, dancy etc, they dont want to know.....think of it as Formula one with the safety car out!!!!

a good cover band will fit 30 massive songs into a 2 hour set, a GREAT cover band will do 40!!! most originals do 4 songs in 30 mins, that´s 16 songs in 2 hours, HALF of what a cover band will do.

I´m not trying to be biased to cover bands, i have both been in covers and originals over the years, and these are true facts, not a waffle from someone whos clueless, I have coached bands and have advised and arranged sets to get maximum exposure to the audiences they are playing to.

I remember one band i played in (Originals) the lead singer got up on the stage and the first thing out of his mouth was "Thank You........And Goodnight!" Within 60 seconds, half the crowd left. Why...... not because they took his words seriously, it was because he had not switched his amp on, spent 15 seconds wondering why there was no sound, when that was resolved, he then dropped to his knees to plug in his tuner.

My 1st and LAST gig with that band.

Remember, the Script spent YEARS rehearsing without doing gigs and hit it big, why.... Practice makes perfect, perfection gets gigs!!!

21-12-2011 06:44PM

theinhouseband wrote: »

The music scene is thriving in Ireland, but let me stress a point to you....

Unless an original band is well rehearsed, they will go into a venue, spend the first 5 mins talking, tuning up, 1-2´ing, deciding on a song, tell a story about the song, do the song, then repeat the process, this is FACT, 1/4 of the time spent on stage is used talking.

COVER BAND: Amp on.... Good evening.......... BOOM!!!!! - 10 seconds
End of song... drummer counts in, Next song!!!

Audiences go off the boil very quickly,unless it´s full pelt, dancy etc, they dont want to know.....think of it as Formula one with the safety car out!!!!

a good cover band will fit 30 massive songs into a 2 hour set, a GREAT cover band will do 40!!! most originals do 4 songs in 30 mins, that´s 16 songs in 2 hours, HALF of what a cover band will do.

I´m not trying to be biased to cover bands, i have both been in covers and originals over the years, and these are true facts, not a waffle from someone whos clueless, I have coached bands and have advised and arranged sets to get maximum exposure to the audiences they are playing to.

I remember one band i played in (Originals) the lead singer got up on the stage and the first thing out of his mouth was "Thank You........And Goodnight!" Within 60 seconds, half the crowd left. Why...... not because they took his words seriously, it was because he had not switched his amp on, spent 15 seconds wondering why there was no sound, when that was resolved, he then dropped to his knees to plug in his tuner.

My 1st and LAST gig with that band.

Remember, the Script spent YEARS rehearsing without doing gigs and hit it big, why.... Practice makes perfect, perfection gets gigs!!!

^^^^^^^^^^LOL to most of that^^^^^^^^^^

Don't be rediculous,

Your FACTS are in fact (ironically enough) opinions. I was in a few originals and we always had 12 songs minimum good to go in a 30-40 minute set.

Unless an original band is well rehearsed, they will go into a venue, spend the first 5 mins talking, tuning up, 1-2´ing, deciding on a song, tell a story about the song, do the song, then repeat the process, this is FACT, 1/4 of the time spent on stage is used talking.

Pure BS. A complete amateur might do that, but anyone with even 5 gigs under their belt know what to do. Maybe I was lucky, but I had enough bollickings from soundmen in my first few gigs to know what to do.

Oh, and never go and see The Frames play. Glen spends about 3 minutes inbetween each song telling stories. Apparently some of the audience like it, it's called rapport

Seriously, stop with the "it's a fact". They aint. There are very few "facts" when it comes to bands and music as we're all different. What may work for you, won't work for me. And that's what I love about music.

theinhouseband · 21-12-2011 06:58PM

im sorry dolla, but i beg to differ with you. i spend my life on the music scene, week in, week out, so i´m no bedroom warrior. and have my name on quite a few albums to boot!!

Music is only an opinion, i´ve known that from day one, 12 notes arranged in a sequence of varying octaves. as my 1st day of music school described it,

Check out the movie "Still Crazy" There is a scene where the biggest rock band in the world are walking past Strange Fruit, and Beano (The Drummer) says "Biggest band in the world.......... I bet they´d be S**te in my local"

and you have quoted a GRAMMY AWARD WINNER as an example of originality, i dont think we´re talking the o2 here, merely a pub gig. As for glenn, I have no problem listening to his music, but as for his Rapport..... i want my 3 minutes of life back, you pay to HEAR MUSIC, not listen to mindless waffle and corny one liners, that is what Jeff Dunham was made for.

Glenn, credit where it is due, he is talented, but was an unknown in the years before the Commitments, and for some years after. and if you ask ANY punter to name 3 frames songs, with the exception of Revelate, they would be clueless, but thats probably MY opinion again. but i have tested this out, and on many a night offered 50 quid to the first person that could without wikipedia.... that 50 is still in my pocket, so that is a genuine FACT!

why not mention some other talented guys like Peter Doran, Wayne Brennan, Mark Hogan, Shane Butler, Marc Roberts, Ryan Sheridan, Stephen Heneghan etc

the reality is.... most Original bands on the scene at the moment have now crossed over to covers.... because they are TIRED of having to "Pay to Play".
Jeeze, Even Imelda May did covers before she made it!!!! and didnt Glenn play covers in the Commitments..... the plot thickens, and as for the X factor......

you have probably seen posts relating to this over the years.

I say have a poll on the matter: take a poll on 2 items, number of musicians playing in cover bands, those not. and the amount of bands who have actually paid to play originals.

Cover bands have been around since the greats, Mozart, Bach etc.

Every orchestra plays their music, but that is only an interpretation of notes on a sheet, so that would make them a cover band!!

FACT!!!

Rigsby · 21-12-2011 09:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Glen spends about 3 minutes inbetween each song telling stories. Apparently some of the audience like it, it's called rapport

I must admit that this, whether it comes from a covers or original band, just bores the pants off of me. :rolleyes: That three minutes could have been spent doing another song. Maybe some of the audience might like it, but I'd bet the majority would prefer a song instead, which is what they paid in for. I have nothing against having some rapport with the crowd, but three minutes between each song.... !!?? If I wanted stories, I'd go to a one man play or such like.

theinhouseband · 22-12-2011 04:55AM

Well said rigsby!!!! There's rapport, and there's money for jam!!!

Tonight I did a gig where I was asked to do songs back to back, reason..... "talking between songs makes the crowd lose interest" and this was a bar manager that said it!!!!

It's amazing that this manager knows how to get value for money and I had no Problem obligating. That is what being a hired professional musician is all about.

The Celtic tiger is now extinct and with money being tight every cover band, and original are all after the same Piece of the pie. But I have no Qualm putting a little custard on it and sharing with people who sat there for 2 hours applauding.

Time for bed, gotta pick up my new PA in the morning!!!

Rigsby wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Glen spends about 3 minutes inbetween each song telling stories. Apparently some of the audience like it, it's called rapport

I must admit that this, whether it comes from a covers or original band, just bores the pants off of me. :rolleyes: That three minutes could have been spent doing another song. Maybe some of the audience might like it, but I'd bet the majority would prefer a song instead, which is what they paid in for. I have nothing against having some rapport with the crowd, but three minutes between each song.... !!?? If I wanted stories, I'd go to a one man play or such like.

raindog.promo · 22-12-2011 06:29AM

theinhouseband wrote: »

and if you ask ANY punter to name 3 frames songs, with the exception of Revelate, they would be clueless, but thats probably MY opinion again.

Angel at my Table
God Bless Mom
Star, Star

And I'm not really a fan.

FACT!

novarock · 22-12-2011 11:27AM

FACT bull**** FACT

BIGDOGG · 22-12-2011 04:09PM

here's the scoop

your commercial / artistic failures and successes as a musician are your own fault for any number of reasons. Don't be an elitist music snob. live and let live.

the original music scene and the cover scene are in no way commercially linked
it's rugby union / rugby league

naturesprings · 22-12-2011 04:09PM

"Thunder stealers" no chance, unless you are naive enough to think a cover band can play a song better than the band who wrote it. Who's thunder are they stealing anyway??

I play original music myself but have been in cover bands as well as the most successful Tribute act to come out of Ireland & UK. I won't knock cover bands, never, they are among the hardest working and highest quality musicians in the country, why shouldn't they get paid?? Look at Trad musicians, outstanding musicianship yet effectively a cover band, and some of these musicians don't even look to get paid, happy with a few beers.

I think the reason some of these musicians get involved in playing other peoples songs, as I did, is simple, it pays! In some cases pays very well. This can fund your own thing, session players, studios, recording, duplication, engineers, it doesn't come cheap, believe me.

Not only that, but the "Original" scene, and I use that term loosely, is hardly the most exciting, in my opinion. Rather boring same old same old to be honest. There are very few bands playing truly "Original" music.

"Theinhouseband" makes some good points, and mentioned some good musicians, although Ryan "one trick pony" Sheridan in the same sentence as the incredible Wayne Brennan, sorry not in the same league. Sad fact is, Wayne had to leave these shores to get the recognition he so firmly deserves, Ryan however just happens to be backed by the biggest promoter in the land, feed the public enough **** on a plate and they will eventually be convinced they are indeed gorging themselves on Fillet Mignon, "SAD FACT"

So why, if you have talent, would you not go where the money is?? It takes a certain breed to give everything to one project that has no guarantee of success.

There are some musicians out there that can't afford one string never mind six strings, so we should all count ourselves lucky to be playing any sort of music. If you can make some cash from playing a song be it a cover or (very loosely termed) "Original", then go for it!!

Now if there are any good quality Bassists/Guitarists out there that wish to put all your eggs in the one basket, mail me!!

Merry Xmas!!

BIGDOGG · 22-12-2011 04:10PM

raindog.promo wrote: »

Angel at my Table
God Bless Mom
Star, Star

And I'm not really a fan.

FACT!

so what ?

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4 · 22-12-2011 05:06PM

BIGDOGG wrote: »

the original music scene and the cover scene are in no way commercially linked
it's rugby union / rugby league

thats a good analogy.

theinhouseband · 22-12-2011 10:40PM

Well said lads, and fair cop about Ryan Sheridan, but equally Hansard had the big promoter behind him too, by comparison, I prefer to listen to his brother. Much more Pleasing on the ear and in no way big-headded, just gets the nut down and gets on with it.

Merry Christmas guys!!

Are cover bands "Thunder Stealers"?

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