'No Platform' Policy'

Manco · 10-12-2011 08:40PM

It's a bit odd that the English Defense League, one of the biggest far-right threats in the UK today, wasn't included in the list.

Also, I don't think the 32CSM is particularly left-wing, I don't think they have any politics beyond being a RIRA fan club...

whadabouchasir · 10-12-2011 08:40PM

PomBear wrote: »

You can propose a motion through an SU exec member, not hard to do,

Hmmmmmm might do that so

PomBear wrote: »

you can also attend the meeting is which it is being discussed and propose the motion before voting takes place.

Bit late for that now:D

whadabouchasir · 10-12-2011 08:42PM

Manco wrote: »

Also, I don't think the 32CSM is particularly left-wing, I don't think they have any policies beyond being a RIRA fan club...

Then they should definitely be on the list. Probabaly the EDL too,but I seriously doubt that they'd ever come to an Irish uni!

Dunny5000 · 10-12-2011 08:44PM

Manco wrote: »

I agree that the Class Reps system is a joke and completely out of touch. (I don't know either of the class reps for either of the two Final Year Arts subjects I'm studying, or even if they were elected). However, the logical consequence of putting this issue to a referendum is that every single issue they deal with should be put to a referendum.

Why has this issue been singled out in particular? Hmm...

The number of complaints and the survey and the way the motion was put forward i.e. no-one was informed about it.
This would not really have a knock on effect to be honest. There may be grounds to challenge other motions passed this year but what would you prefer? To challenge motions already in place or to give in place or to give people carte blanche to propose any motion they wish and force it through without informing the student body?

Dunny5000 · 10-12-2011 08:46PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Exactly. Who decides what the College Bar serves for dinner every day? That affects as many students as this "No Platform" policy, surely...

Not at all really if this was put through properly then you couldn't justify a referendum, but as it is it wasn't done right.
Letting this slide sets a precedent and not a good one.

Ficheall · 10-12-2011 08:46PM

bildo wrote: »

I really would encourage people to actually read the motion before making their minds up on it.

Linky?

MissMoppet · 10-12-2011 08:53PM

Think this is it.

http://www.su.nuigalway.ie/site/view/95/

Also what the constitution says about Councils..

C. Students’ Union Council
i. The Students’ Union Council shall act as the forum for the Class
Representatives.

ii. All students are allowed to attend the Students’ Union Council. Only registered

Class Representatives are permitted to vote at the Students’ Union Council.
iii. The Students’ Union Council shall meet at least three times per semester.
iv. All Executive officers are required to attend the meetings. If an officer fails to
attend three consecutive meetings of the Students’ Union Council without
written apologies being accepted by the Students’ Union Council, he/she shall
be deemed to have resigned.

v. Each Executive officer shall submit an electronic report of work done since the
last meeting to the Chairperson of Students’ Union Council not less than three
college days prior to the meeting. If an officer fails to submit a report for three
meetings during the year they shall be deemed to have resigned.

vi. Members of the Students’ Union Council may raise motions by contacting, in
writing, the Chairperson of Students’ Union Council not less than three college
days prior to the meeting. College days are defined as all days on which
teaching for undergraduate courses takes place as set out in the University
Academic Calendar.

vii. All students may speak on motions and ask questions of the officers.
viii. Voting on motions at Students’ Union Council shall ordinarily be by simple
majority vote. Voting shall be conducted in accordance with the regulations
outlined in the relevant Schedule of this Constitution.

ix. Any member of the Students’ Union Council may request a recount of the
votes. There shall be a maximum of three recounts, after which the
Chairperson shall adjudicate on the issue.
x. A special meeting of the Students’ Union Council shall be called, upon receipt
of a written request submitted to the General Manager of the Union, or their
appointee. It may be from any of the following:

a. The President of the Union (On his/her own initiative)
b. The Executive Committee (By simple majority vote)
c. The Chairperson of the Students’ Union Council, (On his/her own initiative)
d. The General Manager of the Students’ Union (On the receipt of a written
request from five members of the Students’ Union Council).
xi. A maximum of two special Students’ Union Councils may be held each
semester.

xii. Notices for all Students’ Union Councils shall be given though the normal
means of communication employed by the Union, with particular regard to
electronic communication.
xiii. The quorum for a Students’ Union Council shall be fifty (50) class
representatives.

xiv. Meetings of Students’ Union Council shall be conducted in accordance with
such standing orders as may be determined by the members from time to
time. Such standing orders may be suspended by a two-thirds (2/3) majority
of those present and voting. Standing Orders may not be suspended
retrospectively.

Dunny5000 · 10-12-2011 08:56PM

bildo wrote: »

1)Motions passed through 2 democratic processes and has been voted on by a massive majority of student reps.

Will O'Brien - Equality Officer

This is not true less than a quarter of class reps actually turned out to the meeting.

As a class rep I was not informed of the motion and did not get to talk to my class about it. How is this democratic?
Also what about the poll in the SIN paper?

PomBear · 10-12-2011 08:58PM

whadabouchasir wrote: »

Hmmmmmm might do that so Bit late for that now:D

Next semester?

whadabouchasir · 10-12-2011 09:04PM

PomBear wrote: »

Next semester?

SO if I go to the meeting and get a member of the SU to propose it then it can be voted on?

PomBear · 10-12-2011 09:07PM

whadabouchasir wrote: »

SO if I go to the meeting and get a member of the SU to propose it then it can be voted on?

He/She has to get it voted through the SU exec first but yes...

whadabouchasir · 10-12-2011 09:11PM

PomBear wrote: »

He/She has to get it voted through the SU exec first but yes...

After the exec do the class reps have to vote on it again seen as it is basically the same motion,just including groups that should have been included first time?

MissMoppet · 10-12-2011 09:15PM

From the looks of the constitution you can submit any motion you want to the chairperson without it going through the exec..

PomBear · 10-12-2011 09:21PM

whadabouchasir wrote: »

After the exec do the class reps have to vote on it again seen as it is basically the same motion,just including groups that should have been included first time?

Yes, i'm not sure about this but you could probably call an amendment to the policy and get that voted on....

MissMoppet wrote: »

From the looks of the constitution you can submit any motion you want to the chairperson without it going through the exec..

Very possibly, I haven't done things that way as the SU doesn't necessarily adhere to its constitution 100% of the time either but saying that, I haven't tried things that way, I always read that as class reps could only do so.

whadabouchasir · 10-12-2011 09:24PM

PomBear wrote: »

Yes, i'm not sure about this but you could probably call an amendment to the policy and get that voted on....

But would that still have to be voted on by both the exec and then the reps the same as a new motion would?

PomBear · 10-12-2011 09:30PM

whadabouchasir wrote: »

But would that still have to be voted on by both the exec and then the reps the same as a new motion would?

Yeah but if MissMoppet is right, you can bypass the exec, I think that applies only to class reps though...

bildo · 10-12-2011 09:58PM

Dunny5000 wrote: »

This is not true less than a quarter of class reps actually turned out to the meeting.

As a class rep I was not informed of the motion and did not get to talk to my class about it. How is this democratic?
Also what about the poll in the SIN paper?

Representative democracy, decisions are made by those who turn up.
It would be perfect if there was full participation but there isn't and there probably never will be. While regrettable it is the only system we have and we have to stick by it.
If you were not informed about the motion then there is a problem with the organisation of the class reps system which is the responsibility of the Education Officer. Talk to him, or better yet, as a class rep, bring it up as a motion yourself at the next SU council.

What about the SIN poll?
I chaired a 20-30 minute informative debate and questions and answers on the motion, it was printed and handed out to all of the student reps who turned up which was above quorum as outlined in the constitution. The reps voted and overwhelmingly accepted it.
While I certainly don't doubt Rosemary the editor at all, polls are actually very scientific things that need to be conducted under closely monitored and stringent conditions. At the end of the day, without a published method open to critical analysis this poll shows nothing more than random students when presented with a choice of yes or no will divide their votes roughly 50:50.

If the word "ban" was in any way used during the poll then it would have been a misrepresentation of the policy and completely invalid. Most people who are against the policy seem to be under the impression that people are being banned from speaking at or from coming to campus, this is simply not the case.

Lockstep · 10-12-2011 10:04PM

MissMoppet wrote: »

It seems to be very badly thought out and rushed.
Anyone else think it may just be for a certain member of the SU to but it on his manifesto for next year.

Do you mean the No Platform policy or the plans to put it to referendum?

bildo · 10-12-2011 10:19PM

^^^
Very good question.

Carlos Orange · 10-12-2011 10:42PM

bildo wrote: »

Representative democracy, decisions are made by those who turn up.
It would be perfect if there was full participation but there isn't and there probably never will be. While regrettable it is the only system we have and we have to stick by it.
If you were not informed about the motion then there is a problem with the organisation of the class reps system which is the responsibility of the Education Officer. Talk to him, or better yet, as a class rep, bring it up as a motion yourself at the next SU council.

Sounds more like a sham democracy that anything else. People are generally a little suspicious of anything that gets 96% and rightly so.

MissMoppet · 10-12-2011 10:47PM

I mean that I think the policy has to many holes (as others have posted about) and there wasn't enough done to publicise it..

I also don't really see a need for it.

bildo · 10-12-2011 10:48PM

I don't think so. It is a very simple and uncontroversial policy IMHO.
It mandates the SU to oppose racist speakers at university, impeaches on no one's freedom of speach and sends out a strong message that racism is not tolorated by the students of NUI Galway.
I would hope that at least 96% of people would agree to that if it was explained to them properly.

mrkiscool2 · 10-12-2011 11:06PM

bildo wrote: »

Dunny5000 wrote: »

This is not true less than a quarter of class reps actually turned out to the meeting.

As a class rep I was not informed of the motion and did not get to talk to my class about it. How is this democratic?
Also what about the poll in the SIN paper?

Representative democracy, decisions are made by those who turn up.
It would be perfect if there was full participation but there isn't and there probably never will be. While regrettable it is the only system we have and we have to stick by it.
If you were not informed about the motion then there is a problem with the organisation of the class reps system which is the responsibility of the Education Officer. Talk to him, or better yet, as a class rep, bring it up as a motion yourself at the next SU council.

What about the SIN poll?
I chaired a 20-30 minute informative debate and questions and answers on the motion, it was printed and handed out to all of the student reps who turned up which was above quorum as outlined in the constitution. The reps voted and overwhelmingly accepted it.
While I certainly don't doubt Rosemary the editor at all, polls are actually very scientific things that need to be conducted under closely monitored and stringent conditions. At the end of the day, without a published method open to critical analysis this poll shows nothing more than random students when presented with a choice of yes or no will divide their votes roughly 50:50.

If the word "ban" was in any way used during the poll then it would have been a misrepresentation of the policy and completely invalid. Most people who are against the policy seem to be under the impression that people are being banned from speaking at or from coming to campus, this is simply not the case.

Absolute load of bollix! class reps arent allowed speak, they are allowed to ask questions only! If you are so confident that SIN "biased" the pollees, why dont you hold a referundum and prove that people swayed it in the way of controversy. The left wing of the SU is trying to **** up the liberalism that exists aming students. The way you disprove these ***** is allow someone from the SU to kick their ass in a debate! If far right are protested against, should i protest against the far left in the SU?

bildo · 10-12-2011 11:28PM

If class reps want to propose a motion they can by speaking to their convener

Dunny5000 · 10-12-2011 11:47PM

bildo wrote: »

Representative democracy, decisions are made by those who turn up.
It would be perfect if there was full participation but there isn't and there probably never will be. While regrettable it is the only system we have and we have to stick by it.
If you were not informed about the motion then there is a problem with the organisation of the class reps system which is the responsibility of the Education Officer. Talk to him, or better yet, as a class rep, bring it up as a motion yourself at the next SU council.

What about the SIN poll?
I chaired a 20-30 minute informative debate and questions and answers on the motion, it was printed and handed out to all of the student reps who turned up which was above quorum as outlined in the constitution. The reps voted and overwhelmingly accepted it.
While I certainly don't doubt Rosemary the editor at all, polls are actually very scientific things that need to be conducted under closely monitored and stringent conditions. At the end of the day, without a published method open to critical analysis this poll shows nothing more than random students when presented with a choice of yes or no will divide their votes roughly 50:50.

If the word "ban" was in any way used during the poll then it would have been a misrepresentation of the policy and completely invalid. Most people who are against the policy seem to be under the impression that people are being banned from speaking at or from coming to campus, this is simply not the case.

But there was not even a chance for partial participation. This was put in front of us, you told us it was a good idea (Seeing as you came up with it that is hardly surprising)
The debate wasn't really informative. When you were asked who these groups were you just said they are racist groups. Which is what the piece of paper said.

I know that there is problems with the email (i never get them for one thing) but that does not mean that it was okay to put this to vote.
Would you be against the class reps voting on it again? This time letting them have a proper chance to talk to their classes?
Also your view of democracy is scary for someone on the union. You can't seriously think it was okay to just force this through when no-one knew anything about it can you?
I get that it wasn't your fault or whatever but how does that excuse putting the motion through in the first place?

bildo · 10-12-2011 11:54PM

How else do you propose achieving anything other than using the limited tools that are available?
I do oppose this going to a revote simply because it will mean that pretty much every decision made this year could potentially be up for question. The Union has an awful lot of work coming up after Xmas and we really need to focus on providing welfare for students and campaigning against cuts to education. I also believe that all energy focused on questioning this motion in particular could be better invested in actually fixing the underlying problems that seem to be undermining the class reps system. Address the bigger picture, the cause of the problems and not the perceived symptoms.

Dunny5000 · 11-12-2011 12:12AM

bildo wrote: »

How else do you propose achieving anything other than using the limited tools that are available?
I do oppose this going to a revote simply because it will mean that pretty much every decision made this year could potentially be up for question. The Union has an awful lot of work coming up after Xmas and we really need to focus on providing welfare for students and campaigning against cuts to education. I also believe that all energy focused on questioning this motion in particular could be better invested in actually fixing the underlying problems that seem to be undermining the class reps system. Address the bigger picture, the cause of the problems and not the perceived symptoms.

Seriously? Would you prefer that we question the decisions made already or should we allow the SU to do whatever they like all the time without question?
If there is a problem with the information system (as you and I say there is) then we have to look at fixing it but we also have to look at the decisions that were made during the "broken period" if you will. The decisions made where people were uninformed and didn't know what was going on.
This no platform thing seems to be one of them. I'm not saying we put everything to referendum but something should be done.
You can't say it's not my problem because it was somebody elses fault.

Also I would say the one of the underlying problems is that you forced a motion through when you knew nobody knew what was going on. You can say it is someone elses fault if you like (about the emails I mean)
But forcing the motion through when no-one knew about it is just as much your fault as anyone elses, they should have been asked to consider it and vote in the next council and I am sure you could have asked them o do that just as well as anyone else.

I have to say I find your resistance to this disappointing.

bildo · 11-12-2011 12:41AM

Please understand that there are certain things I cannot say and opinions I cannot express because of my position on the SU.
Most of all I cannot question ANYTHING the class reps vote on. They are our boss and I am answerable to them.
I do agree with the majority of what you are saying, there are problems and they do need to be addressed. My point is that if you want to see any improvement it is essential to address the cause of the problem before the symptom. Focused energy is far more effective than questioning every single decision and vote made this year which is what could happen if class reps decision are questioned.
I'm not saying let's not ask these questions or lets not have these debates, just that I think there are a few other things that need to be looked as a higher priority. Then we can look back on this "broken period".

Ficheall · 11-12-2011 01:56AM

This "No Platform" policy is a bit of a non-issue. Can ye not just tidy up the Class Reps voting process etc. Make the agendas available to all students IN ADVANCE, and then anyone who actually cares about a motion can either turn up or contact their class rep. Attach it at the end of the weekly emails.
Then no one can say they weren't informed etc, and we wouldn't have to deal with this nonsense.

Ruire · 11-12-2011 03:17AM

bildo wrote: »

It is a very simple and uncontroversial policy IMHO.

Which is why no one's complained at all about it, yeah? :rolleyes:

'No Platform' Policy'

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