Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

djPSB · 06-12-2011 10:34PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't think it's unfair at all. Suarez might not be in form in front of goal but outside of it he works like a trojan, if Carroll did that he would have close to the amount of negativity he does. Problem is he doesn't, came into the season drastically unfit and has looked lazy for most of the season so far.

I remember Robbie Keane worked his socks off while he was at the club but that didn't do him any favours.

At the end of the day it doesn't come down to 'hard work'. It comes down to goals scored.

Hard work is for players like Dirk Kuyt who don't have natural goal scoring ability.

Chucky the tree · 06-12-2011 10:45PM

djPSB wrote: »

I remember Robbie Keane worked his socks off while he was at the club but that didn't do him any favours.

At the end of the day it doesn't come down to 'hard work'. It comes down to goals scored.

Hard work is for players like Dirk Kuyt who don't have natural goal scoring ability.

I don't remember many negative comments about Keane performaces when he did play. As for Carroll does having natural goal scoring ability? :pac: How you actually watched him this season? Hard work should be for everyone ffs. If Carroll was actually scoring then it could be let slide but the fact he couldn't score in a brothel just makes it worse for him.

tommyhaas · 06-12-2011 10:52PM

The problem regarding Carroll is that much of the criticism is obviously to do with the fee paid. As everyone admits he has no control over this, hence what is often perceived as a criticism of Carroll is in fact a criticism of the decision to pay that much for him

I think the criticism of his performances alone has been rare enough relative to the criticism levelled at N'gog for example last season

One thing Rafa often got criticised for was the Robbie Keane debacle. Without going into who exactly signed Keane etc, I always admired Rafa for making the decision to cut his losses on Keane when it was clear to him it wasn't working out. How'd people feel about Kenny doing likewise with Carroll if at this stage it was clear to him that Carroll simply wasn't going to fit?

Obviously getting rid would incur a huge financial hit, would leave him (and/or Comoli) looking quiet bad, but could present him with a real opportunity to bring someone in who he feels could be more effective

Grayditch · 06-12-2011 10:58PM

Enrique is the best player in the world. I decided that last night.

Turtyturd · 06-12-2011 11:07PM

Grayditch wrote: »

Enrique is the best player in the world. I decided that last night.

He might do a job if we stick him up front.

djPSB · 06-12-2011 11:08PM

- Strikers are there to score goals, not to work hard.

- It is not physically possible for Andy Carroll to cover as much ground as Luis Suarez. Carroll is 6ft 3.

- Suarez hasn't scored in seven games.

- Carroll hasn't been given a consecutive run of games to prove himself.

- Suarez's behaviour on the pitch is disgraceful.

Sir Gallagher · 06-12-2011 11:14PM

Grayditch wrote: »

Enrique is the best player in the world. I decided that last night.

He's quality alright but the one small problem i'd have with him is that sometimes he goes for glory, when a simple lay off would be the better option.

th3 s1aught3r · 06-12-2011 11:16PM

djPSB wrote: »

- Strikers are there to score goals, not to work hard.

- It is not physically possible for Andy Carroll to cover as much ground as Luis Suarez. Carroll is 6ft 3.

- Suarez hasn't scored in seven games.

- Carroll hasn't been given a consecutive run of games to prove himself.

- Suarez's behaviour on the pitch is disgraceful.

Carroll could have been on till Christmas and he wouldnt have scored
Suarez looks like he can score or assist whenever he gets on the ball
totally different class of player

tommyhaas · 06-12-2011 11:21PM

djPSB wrote: »

- Strikers are there to score goals, not to work hard.

- It is not physically possible for Andy Carroll to cover as much ground as Luis Suarez. Carroll is 6ft 3.

- Suarez hasn't scored in seven games.

- Carroll hasn't been given a consecutive run of games to prove himself.

- Suarez's behaviour on the pitch is disgraceful.

Suarez is a better player who adds more to the team. On the balance of things, he also seems a considerably nicer guy then Andy Carroll. If you want to find positives about Carroll, I don't think the moral high ground is the place to start looking

Chucky the tree · 06-12-2011 11:30PM

djPSB wrote: »

- Strikers are there to score goals, not to work hard.

- It is not physically possible for Andy Carroll to cover as much ground as Luis Suarez. Carroll is 6ft 3.

- Suarez hasn't scored in seven games.

- Carroll hasn't been given a consecutive run of games to prove himself.

- Suarez's behaviour on the pitch is disgraceful.

- Problem is Carroll doesn't score goals
- I never said he should cover the same amount of ground as Suarez. Just because he is 6ft 3 doesn't mean he can't run or has to jog around all the time. Pretty sure tall people are capalble of running.
- Carroll hasn't deserved a consectutive run of games.
- Your right here. He should apply himself on the pitch and off it he should beat up women and then glass people in nightclubs.

Tusky · 06-12-2011 11:33PM

Yakult wrote: »

That is truly, truly weird..

Yeah, really really weird innit? Our two strikers would never link up like that to score a goal.

Outkast_IRE · 06-12-2011 11:37PM

In fairness Height has nothing to do with the amount of ground a man can cover , if anything height is an advantage all i need is one exampe Usain Bolt , 6ft 5 end of that argument dont want to hear it again.

I would be interested to see out of all the shots Carroll has taken how many have hit the Post/Crossbar or straight at the keeper.

Personally i would give him the full season and give him plenty of games the rest of the season in the hope that once he starts scoring again he wont stop.

K-9 · 06-12-2011 11:43PM

The worrying thing about Carroll was he was showing form and confidence a month ago. He has plenty of self belief but I think even that might have took a hit in the last couple of games.

Suarez hasn't scored or assisted much lately as pointed out, he gets a pass because he's such a skillful player to watch, that trap on the ball and the long pass to Bellamy was lovely to watch. But again, nice as it is to have, its about as useful as Carroll putting in a shift if we've 6 goals between them. Plus Suarez is going to get a ban soon, whether for the finger or indiscipline.

I'd have been expecting 15 goals minimum between them at this stage.

The team did play some nice stuff last night, Henderson and Downing very unlucky and they kept at it, even after the goal and sending of, but its getting tiring saying how unlucky we are.

argosy2006 · 06-12-2011 11:44PM

Predator ? Hardly

Tusky · 06-12-2011 11:52PM

Criticizing Suarez as a way of making Carroll look better is ludicrous. Suarez has probably been one of our top 3 players in almost every game since he joined, and often our best player. He is also our top scorer in that period and chips in with assists too.

Suarez is on 11 goals and 11 assists from 30 appearances so far and has had to make many of his own chances.

Carroll is on 5 goals and 0 assists from 23 appearances and barely contributes anything when not scoring.

Sir Gallagher · 07-12-2011 12:00AM

argosy2006 wrote: »

Predator ? Hardly

That's the support our fans are famous for.

daithijjj · 07-12-2011 12:03AM

djPSB wrote: »

- Strikers are there to score goals, not to work hard.

- It is not physically possible for Andy Carroll to cover as much ground as Luis Suarez. Carroll is 6ft 3.

- Suarez hasn't scored in seven games.

- Carroll hasn't been given a consecutive run of games to prove himself.

- Suarez's behaviour on the pitch is disgraceful.

Usain Bolt is 6ft 5in, height isnt an excuse not to be mobile.

I watched Carroll off the ball alot last night and he was doing things you would want from him in that department. The problem for me is, that if you compare Carroll of 9/10 - 10/11, inc his prem league time, he is not even close to how mobile he used to be. Why?

For me there is a big problem with him, i honestly believe he is a worse player now than he was 15 months ago. Not by scoring goals or stuff like that, just by how he gets around the pitch, its nothing to do with the opposition. Not scoring goals!!!, all strikers go through that at some point but next time you watch him come a bit deep (like 40 yards from goal), he ball watches, he doesnt bust a gut to get into the box, he jogs along like he is warming up, this is a problem also, but the bigger problem is the mobility he has lost. All you have to do is find a video somewhere of his time at Newcastle and its like chalk and cheese, two different men. The one we have is the slow motion version and its worrying because it isnt a case of match fitness, its from minute 1.

Having said that, its not all his fault, KK needs to decide how he wants the game to be played. Playing with Carroll needs to be a bit different and to be honest i see no discernible difference. We play 80 mins the same way regardless and if we arent winning we start throwing balls in the box early like at home to City. We did the exact same last night, but we took Carroll off when that is exactly when we needed him imo. Alot of work to do, alot, from team and management.

Morzadec · 07-12-2011 12:08AM

Suarez scored a really well taken goal last night so that statistic about not scoring in 7 doesn't really show the full picture. It wasn't an easy chance, I thought he took it superbly, can hardly blame him for it being ruled out

paddy kerins · 07-12-2011 12:10AM

Not sure if this was posted already

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2011/12/attention-mainstream-football-writers/

Grayditch · 07-12-2011 12:11AM

Don't underestimate how much effort it is to defend against Suarez, and how it opens holes in defences when there are 2-3 lads hacking away (Sorry, making clean tackles EVERY SINGLE TIME). He might not be assisting or scoring as much, but as people have said, he's doing more than his bit.

Defences are copping onto him better now, coupled with the fact that refs being more cautious to the point of error at times. He'll adapt to it.

Tusky · 07-12-2011 12:21AM

daithijjj wrote: »

Usain Bolt is 6ft 5in, height isnt an excuse not to be mobile.

I watched Carroll off the ball alot last night and he was doing things you would want from him in that department. The problem for me is, that if you compare Carroll of 9/10 - 10/11, inc his prem league time, he is not even close to how mobile he used to be. Why?

For me there is a big problem with him, i honestly believe he is a worse player now than he was 15 months ago. Not by scoring goals or stuff like that, just by how he gets around the pitch, its nothing to do with the opposition. Not scoring goals!!!, all strikers go through that at some point but next time you watch him come a bit deep (like 40 yards from goal), he ball watches, he doesnt bust a gut to get into the box, he jogs along like he is warming up, this is a problem also, but the bigger problem is the mobility he has lost. All you have to do is find a video somewhere of his time at Newcastle and its like chalk and cheese, two different men. The one we have is the slow motion version and its worrying because it isnt a case of match fitness, its from minute 1.

Having said that, its not all his fault, KK needs to decide how he wants the game to be played. Playing with Carroll needs to be a bit different and to be honest i see no discernible difference. We play 80 mins the same way regardless and if we arent winning we start throwing balls in the box early like at home to City. We did the exact same last night, but we took Carroll off when that is exactly when we needed him imo. Alot of work to do, alot, from team and management.

The other possibility is that Carroll was simply a decent player going through a very very good run of form for 6 months or so before we signed him. There have been times in Bent's career when he has looked truly top class. Same thing with Defoe and many other strikers.

The thing is, even if we get Carroll back to his best - does he even fit into the team and style of football that we play? I'm not sure that he will, even when playing well.

Morzadec wrote: »

Suarez scored a really well taken goal last night so that statistic about not scoring in 7 doesn't really show the full picture. It wasn't an easy chance, I thought he took it superbly, can hardly blame him for it being ruled out

Indeed. I have no doubt that Suarez will score more once the rest of the team starts chipping in. Its ludicrous to criticise him considering he has scored and assisted more than anyone else, despite being here for only 30 games.

In the summer the Kenny/Comoli were tasked with adding wide players who would create and score goals. That problem remains.

In January, Kenny/Comoli were tasked with replacing the space left by Torres with a goal scoring CF, that problem remains.

citytillidie · 07-12-2011 12:37AM

paddy kerins wrote: »

Not sure if this was posted already

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2011/12/attention-mainstream-football-writers/

Wonder if the FA will give the same punishment this guy also got for doing it

Mr Alan · 07-12-2011 12:40AM

Or this fella against Chelsea back in May.....

Blatter · 07-12-2011 12:41AM

citytillidie wrote: »

Wonder if the FA will give the same punishment this guy also got for doing it

The FA are openly hypocrites, so I doubt it.

Blatter · 07-12-2011 12:45AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Or this fella against Chelsea back in May.....

That isn't conclusive in fairness, a spokeperson for United said he was pointing at his eyes, which could have been the case. Difficult to prove otherwise.

The Suarez incident is far far more clear cut.

Mr Alan · 07-12-2011 12:47AM

Blatter wrote: »

That isn't conclusive in fairness, a spokeperson for United said he was pointing at his eyes, which could have been the case. Difficult to prove otherwise.

The Suarez incident is far far more clear cut.

I'm presuming that's a joke?

Blatter · 07-12-2011 12:55AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm presuming that's a joke?

Nope, but thanked for the laugh you gave me :pac:

Rooney's defense was that he made a gesture to the linesman ''to see more clearly'' after he was clearly fouled by Ivanovic but no free kick was awarded.

That defense was obviously accepted by the FA. I doubt Suarez has a defense like Rooney did, it's far more clear cut what Suarez was doing.

Mr Alan · 07-12-2011 12:59AM

In that case Suarez needs to just say he was pointing out the lovely moon to the Fulham fans in case they missed it.

Case closed.

Blatter · 07-12-2011 01:00AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

In that case Suarez needs to just say he was pointing out the lovely moon to the Fulham fans in case they missed it.

Case closed.

That's not a reasonable defense though, is it?:pac:

copacetic · 07-12-2011 01:01AM

Blatter wrote: »

Nope, but thanked for the laugh you gave me :pac:

Rooney's defense was that he made a gesture to the linesman ''to see more clearly'' after he was clearly fouled by Ivanovic but no free kick was awarded.

That defense was obviously accepted by the FA. I doubt Suarez has a defense like Rooney did, it's far more clear cut what Suarez was doing.

Hardly, Suarez was clearly pointing to this teeth, which the Fulham fans were suggesting needed a bit of work, which they were offering help with. He was just making sure they meant his teeth rather than his nose. Clear cut.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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