Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

barone · 06-12-2011 03:10PM

on the carroll subject, its incredibly hard to judge how he is doing when he has had damm all real service, yes he missed a peno,and missed a few chances, he hasnt had the service he needs..

missing stevie's crosses,they are tailor made for carroll,and he would find him regulary i think..

when they are playing together 6 months or so and no improvement from andy then there really is nowhere else for him to hide imo..

shape up or ship out

Kess73 · 06-12-2011 03:30PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Even with Carroll on the pitch we should still be beating Fulham. The players around him aren't chipping in with goals. The only midfielder that ever seems to score for us is Maxi.

Stevie Gerrard in behind Suarez would be a different story.

The difference is that Carragher has earned his stripes as a legend. Suarez has only just arrived in the country and is too thick to realise there will be a spotlight on him. Take Ronaldo for example. He is as thick as a plank, and got a lot more abuse than Suarez gets but he usually managed to channel his aggression.

Ahh so a "legend" can be abusive to supporters of the club he plays for and roar out expletives in front of a section with lots of kids and that is ok , but a player fairly new to the country cannot stick up a finger to people abusing him otherwise he is simply thick.

Would have said that both were fairly silly to react, or thick as planks to paraphrase yourself, but that in each case it was a hothead reacting to what they deemed to be excess provocation. I think that neither player should have reacted when they did, but that thye media only made a meal out of one.

Martin Kelly last week effed the Chelsea supporters out of it. Now he is not a club legend who has earned his stripes so that excuse is not there for him, so other than him also being a thick as a plank as a reason, why should he not come under the same media spotlight for his stupidity? Surely doing so for a number of seconds during the game and when you are closer to the supporters is a bigger safety issue in terms if provoking some clown in the crowd than a single finger as you walk to the tunnel?

Nah. The media got a whiff of column inches, and whilst Suarez was silly enough to give himself as a target, the tabloid media and the knuckle draggers were quick to try and blow it into something bigger than it is.

Kess73 · 06-12-2011 03:38PM

barone wrote: »

on the carroll subject, its incredibly hard to judge how he is doing when he has had damm all real service, yes he missed a peno,and missed a few chances, he hasnt had the service he needs..

missing stevie's crosses,they are tailor made for carroll,and he would find him regulary i think..

when they are playing together 6 months or so and no improvement from andy then there really is nowhere else for him to hide imo..

shape up or ship out

If service is an excuse for Carroll, then can the same excuse not be made for all the forwards at the club? Gerrard being out cannot be used as an excuse for any other player in the team underperforming imho. We only have six months left in the season as is, with no sign that Gerrard will play for any large chunk of that, let alone having the luxury of having a fully fit Gerrard for those six months.

All of our attacking players should to be judged on what they do, regadless of whether Gerrard is around or not. Carroll and Suarez cost around £57m between them and were brought in to get goals and assists over anything else. If one or both do not bring goals and assists then their worth to the team as attackers has to be questioned. The same logic trickles down to the other attacking players we bought over the last 12 months as well as to the attackers we already had.

I would love to see something click in Carroll and the goals to follow, but I honestly don't think he will be at the club for much longer than 18 months after the day he signed.

The Chessplayer · 06-12-2011 03:42PM

Kelly's not a high profile player. If it was Rooney screaming at the fans it would be all over the tabloids. Another problem for Suarez is that he sticks out a mile with those giant front teeth of his.

We're in trouble if he gets suspended though. We could do with a nice 3 nice scoreline this weekend, goals from Carroll, Suarez and Downing would do nicely.

Sappy404 · 06-12-2011 03:43PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Loads o fballs tbh. If he shouts **** off its no issue but a finger is suddenly some sort of weapon that people need protecting from?:rolleyes:

It's because it's so blatant; he can't claim it didn't happen, and the FA can't turn a blind eye when it's gotten this much attention. It's similar to the Rooney incident where he shouted expletives down the camera. In fact it's worse, as a picture speaks a thousand words, and a picture of Suarez flipping the bird on the back page sells thousands more newspapers.

He'll be banned. Stupid boy.

Kess73 · 06-12-2011 03:45PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Kelly's not a high profile player. If it was Rooney screaming at the fans it would be all over the tabloids. Another problem for Suarez is that he sticks out a mile with those giant front teeth of his.

We're in trouble if he gets suspended though. We could do with a nice 3 nice scoreline this weekend, goals from Carroll, Suarez and Downing would do nicely.

Totally agree that we could be in trouble if he got suspended over it. The team looks pretty clueless and lacking in threat going forwards at times save for him.

That 3 nil scoreline would be very nice indeed come the next game. Let's hope that you turn out to be a prophet with regards to that game.:)

The Chessplayer · 06-12-2011 03:48PM

Kess73 wrote: »

I would love to see something click in Carroll and the goals to follow, but I honestly don't think he will be at the club for much longer than 18 months after the day he signed.

A high-level rumour doing the rounds is that LFC are in negotiations with NUFC on a swap deal: Carroll for Leon Best. NUFC are playing hardball and want Carroll plus £5m, so we're looking at other options including Robbie Keane. Keane however is rumoured to be reluctant to leave his boyhood club LA Galaxy.

The Chessplayer · 06-12-2011 03:56PM

Sappy404 wrote: »

a picture of Suarez flipping the bird

What is this supposed to mean? Am I the only person that has never heard this expression?

Iang87 · 06-12-2011 04:09PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What is this supposed to mean? Am I the only person that has never heard this expression?

maybe. its a real american term, you probably would have heard it on tv shows. Unless of course you had no tv then thats fair enough

Daemonic · 06-12-2011 04:14PM

Flipping the bird is more of an American term for flipping the middle finger but assume most would know it.

Grayditch · 06-12-2011 04:31PM

Oh dear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT-pNYPYE4g

killwill · 06-12-2011 04:50PM

Grayditch wrote: »

Oh dear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT-pNYPYE4g

Why is Joe Cole in goals?

Yakult · 06-12-2011 05:08PM

Grayditch wrote: »

Oh dear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT-pNYPYE4g

That is truly, truly weird..

Kess73 · 06-12-2011 05:37PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

A high-level rumour doing the rounds is that LFC are in negotiations with NUFC on a swap deal: Carroll for Leon Best. NUFC are playing hardball and want Carroll plus £5m, so we're looking at other options including Robbie Keane. Keane however is rumoured to be reluctant to leave his boyhood club LA Galaxy.

An actual Carroll back to Newcastle rumour has been doing the rounds for two months now. One or two local journos in Liverpool have mentioned it along with the rumoured price. Put it up in here some time ago, and again when the discussion was about Carroll not settling.

Same journo that is backing this rumour is the one that said that Gerrard had no chance of making it back in three games time waaay back when the club made that announcement about him being back after the first international break. And the same guy said that the statement by the club on the 2nd or 3rd of Novemeber that claimed that Gerrard was doing well and would be back sooner rather than later was rubbish.

The fact that the club has again come out at the start of this month and said that he will yet again be back sooner rather than later pretty much backs up what was said, and I passed on that rumour back in the old super thread, so I am tending to give the journo the benefit of the doubt over Carroll.

Be a very crappy way for Gerrard's career to wind down if it is just injury time after injury time until the end. Personally I hope that he can get a sustained run of fitness towards the end of his career, but I have a feeling that won't happen and that his time as a regular has already passed thanks to his injuries of this and last season in particular.

YouTookMyName · 06-12-2011 06:17PM

If all PL woodwork strikes this season had been goals, Liverpool would be just 4 points behind Man City

OptaJoe.

All breath in. Smile and remember Roy Hodgson is not in the hot seat anymore. Hicks and the cowboy are gone and we have Kenny back.

mike65 · 06-12-2011 06:21PM

Hmm thats one of those stats, I presume if other teams woodwork shots went in something similar would happen, esp Newcastle.

mike65 · 06-12-2011 06:56PM

Guardian rumour mill

Which is why we can report that Liverpool are considering a swap deal that would see Andy Carroll heading back to Newcastle in exchange for Cheick Tioté. Kenny Dalglish wants Tioté to fill in for the injured Lucas Leiva and is prepared to send his pony-tailed wardrobe back to St James' Park in exchange

no sauce cited.

Blatter · 06-12-2011 07:01PM

I'd say Newcastle would want cash + Carroll for Tiote.

Chucky the tree · 06-12-2011 07:04PM

No point going after toite. He'll won't get his game once Lucas is back. Unless it's some 6 month loan exchange type deal seems pretty ridiculous idea.

tommyhaas · 06-12-2011 07:12PM

On a positive note, went to Goodison this weekend for the second time this season, and for the second time this season I had the pleasure (I use the term loosely given the quality of the game) of seeing them beat 1-0. Nearly tempted to get a season ticket

opr · 06-12-2011 08:57PM

No one watching us in the FA youth cup against Swansea ? Didn't see the first half but it's half time at the moment and we are 2-0 down. It's the third round.

Stream here - http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/21927/1/swansea-youth-vs-liverpool-youth-live-stream-online.html

Team - Belford, Hatch, Smith, Rafferty (c), Regan, Aylmer, Sterling, Pelosi, Morgan, Sumner, Lussey

Subs: Quirk, Wearing, Baio, Wilson, Gainford

Opr

opr · 06-12-2011 09:14PM

3-0 down now. I don't understand why we didn't drop down players like Suso, Wisdom etc like we have done in other years for this competition.

Reserves did play earlier and won 5-1 against Wigan. Shelvey with two goals, Suso, Adorjan and Eccleston with the others.

Opr

tommyhaas · 06-12-2011 09:27PM

opr wrote: »

3-0 down now. I don't understand why we didn't drop down players like Suso, Wisdom etc like we have done in other years for this competition.

What would that achieve though? Surely its of more benefit to the younger lads to be playing at that level then to the likes of Suso and Wisdom who should be looking up and not down in terms of levels?

djPSB · 06-12-2011 09:29PM

I think Suarez's play acting and diving is the worst I've seen in a long time, even worse than Drogba and Ronaldo. It's beginning to get irritating. He isn't doing himself any favours either when you throw in his racism allegations and his finger gesture last night. One would have thought he would begin to learn from his experiences especially after his major ban after the biting incident last year. If he could put all this to one side he has the potential to become one of the best players in the world.

I also find it frustrating the way he is almost conveyed as a god like hero among other supporters, especially when you take into consideration the abuse towards Andy Carroll.

Suarez hasn't scored in seven PL starts. People try to cover this up by saying he is the there to create goals, but he only has two assists over the same period which were both Carroll goals against West Brom.
So he has 4 goals and 2 assists in 1116 minutes of PL football this season.

Carroll has 2 goals in 728 minutes. That's almost 7 hours less playing time than Suarez and he hasn't gotten a consistent run of games together.

I'm not for one minute saying that Carroll is a better player then Suarez and yes Suarez contributes alot to the team other than goals but the degree of affection some fans have for Suarez when contrasted to the general hatred for Carroll is severely unfair. Suarez's form this season is very very average, and he will soon be facing a 3 match ban and maybe more.

I think its time for fans to tone down the Suarez love and also give Andy Carroll a genuine chance.

opr · 06-12-2011 09:37PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

What would that achieve though? Surely its of more benefit to the younger lads to be playing at that level then to the likes of Suso and Wisdom who should be looking up and not down in terms of levels?

I don't think that the FA cup is down a level in terms of football. I think generally it's a better standard than most reserve football games. FA youth cup is a chance for them to play at big stadiums in a proper competitive knock out competition. Maybe with them now playing in the NextGen series we have taken a change in view on it from years gone.

Opr

opr · 06-12-2011 09:44PM

On the other hand that is one hell of a reserve side again today. I presume they lined up something like the below.

Hansen

Flanagan---Sama---Wisdom---Wilson

Coady

Shelvey

---Suso

Adorjan

Ngoo

Eccleston

Suso has been moved back out the right for the last few games and seems to be playing much better. I think that is his third goal in three games. Both Shelvey goals supposedly came from two cracking freekicks.

Opr

tommyhaas · 06-12-2011 09:47PM

opr wrote: »

I don't think that the FA cup is down a level in terms of football. I think generally it's a better standard than most reserve football games. FA youth cup is a chance for them to play at big stadiums in a proper competitive knock out competition. Maybe with them now playing in the NextGen series we have taken a change in view on it from years gone.

Opr

You're obviously far more knowledgeable on the subject then myself, the reasoning for my point was that I saw recently that the Barca youth team that twice comprehensively beat Celtic were something like 2yrs on average younger then the Celtic side. Obviously they're the model that everyone aspires towards, and they're insistence on players playing against age groups above their own obviously has some merit

I'm not suggesting the younger players at Liverpool are near the standard of Barca, but I would have thought that the likes of Suso, Coady, Wisdom etc could benefit more from a run in the Carling cup, coupled with the next gen' etc and leave the younger lads gain experience in the youth cup

06-12-2011 09:58PM

djPSB wrote: »

I think its time for fans to tone down the Suarez love and also give Andy Carroll a genuine chance.

Or, just support both players like a proper fan.

opr · 06-12-2011 10:12PM

Agree with that post completely Tommy and I would much prefer that the lads were getting some kind of a look in for the likes of the Carling cup matches. I guess my problem lies in how bad it seems reserve level football is which Rafa alluded to many times. You only have to look at our lads destroying teams last season at youth levels but when the same players have stepped up to the Nextgen series they have really struggled this season.

I think we have taken a similar approach to Barca in the NextGen series as we have had a fairly young side competing it in. Certainly much younger than Sporting who were using players on the fringes of their first team. Sterling would have been 16 and quite a few others only 17 and I think we only used the rule that you could play two u19 players once in one of the games for Shelvey.

Opr

Chucky the tree · 06-12-2011 10:15PM

djPSB wrote: »

I think Suarez's play acting and diving is the worst I've seen in a long time, even worse than Drogba and Ronaldo. It's beginning to get irritating. He isn't doing himself any favours either when you throw in his racism allegations and his finger gesture last night. One would have thought he would begin to learn from his experiences especially after his major ban after the biting incident last year. If he could put all this to one side he has the potential to become one of the best players in the world.

I also find it frustrating the way he is almost conveyed as a god like hero among other supporters, especially when you take into consideration the abuse towards Andy Carroll.

Suarez hasn't scored in seven PL starts. People try to cover this up by saying he is the there to create goals, but he only has two assists over the same period which were both Carroll goals against West Brom.
So he has 4 goals and 2 assists in 1116 minutes of PL football this season.

Carroll has 2 goals in 728 minutes. That's almost 7 hours less playing time than Suarez and he hasn't gotten a consistent run of games together.

I'm not for one minute saying that Carroll is a better player then Suarez and yes Suarez contributes alot to the team other than goals but the degree of affection some fans have for Suarez when contrasted to the general hatred for Carroll is severely unfair. Suarez's form this season is very very average, and he will soon be facing a 3 match ban and maybe more.

I think its time for fans to tone down the Suarez love and also give Andy Carroll a genuine chance.

I don't think it's unfair at all. Suarez might not be in form in front of goal but outside of it he works like a trojan, if Carroll did that he would have close to the amount of negativity he does. Problem is he doesn't, came into the season drastically unfit and has looked lazy for most of the season so far.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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