When will Ireland have its freedom from the Catholic Church?

dilbert2 · 15-11-2011 12:59PM #1

Obviously, I'm not referring to people practicing their religion here, or wanting to remain Catholic. No, I'm referring to the continuing grip that the Catholic Church holds on our countrys governments and institutions, particulary in some areas of policy, little more than string puppets for Rome and its backward ideology. When is this country going to be a Republic along the lines of other Republics which took their influence from Enlightenment ideology and philosophies, which were more often quiet adamant in ridding Europe and the West of the tyranny of Catholic authoritarian rule.

Ironically, despite claiming ourselves to be a Republic, much of our government and people have been controlled by this institution since the inception of the state. When are Irish people and the Irish government actually going to release themselves from the grip of Roman Catholic mind control and teachings, and become a republic like say France, whose government and society is based on pluralistic and enlightenment notions of citizenship and personal freedoms, as opposed to much of Ireland were the Church has pretty much ruled the country from behind the scenes like a fiefdom.

TerryTibbs! · 15-11-2011 01:02PM

72 years and 4 months

mawk · 15-11-2011 01:04PM

TerryTibbs! wrote: »

72 years and 4 months

Sounds about right. I'll stick it on the calender

ThinkAboutIt · 15-11-2011 01:05PM

Just because it "controls" other people, doesn't mean it controls you.

You can have your freedom the minute you stop worrying about what other people are doing with their life and worry about your own!

KeithAFC · 15-11-2011 01:06PM

Reject Rome and that is it.

Mr. Incognito · 15-11-2011 01:09PM

When the pope $hits in the woods

dilbert2 · 15-11-2011 01:10PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Reject Rome and that is it.

If I criticise the Roman Catholic Church, it does not mean I am endorsing Protestantism, or some other Christian sect. Far from it, a world without any form of Christianity or Religion would be a borderline utopia to me. It just so happens that the RCC has a lot of sway in Ireland, and has done for a long time. I am coming at this from a secular and atheistic angle, and have no interest in getting involved in silly Catholic-vs-Protestants are right or wrong arguments.

texidub · 15-11-2011 01:11PM

Some commentators believe it will happen around tea time. I'm more inclined to think it will be after the cows have been milked in the morning. Either way Ireland will definitely be free from the yoke of oppression before lunch and --depending on which part of the country you are in-- after the postman comes.

I hope this helps.

LostCorkGuy · 15-11-2011 01:14PM

Well the constitution states ireland is a secular state so I don't know why on earth we're being oppressed by the church ?
As for the government being ruled by the church that's rubbish the politicians are doing what will get them re-elected so therefore its not the church its the public opinion !

ICE HOUSE · 15-11-2011 01:16PM

12/12/2012 AD

Dotrel · 15-11-2011 01:17PM

When everyone has digital television to tell them what to do, buy, and think.

Brendog · 15-11-2011 01:17PM

If Norris was elected I'm sured they'd just leave.

Manach · 15-11-2011 01:18PM

The same French Republic that during their revolution murdered hundreds of thousands of political/catholic opposition which did not agree with them?
This state that is bankrupt and is only being kept going by IMF handouts which is hardly to be blamed on the Church is it? As well, our legal system is now inferior to the EU Laws and our "Sovereign" laws can be overturned by the EU regulations.
The Church, which still has many members in Ireland and worldwide, and provides a firm moral framework which does not bend unlike whatever moral relativism that is the de facto fad of the day.

Galtee · 15-11-2011 01:18PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

When the pope $hits in the woods

If it's a guinness one, I reckon he makes a noise.

Killer Pigeon · 15-11-2011 01:20PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Reject Rome and that is it.

Reject the Queen and the Church of Ireland too!!

Galwayguy35 · 15-11-2011 01:20PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Reject Rome and that is it.

Yeah thats been going on a longtime up your end of the country all right. How did it work out?

I Heart Internet · 15-11-2011 01:20PM

dilbert2 wrote: »

No, I'm referring to the continuing grip that the Catholic Church holds on our countrys governments and institutions, particulary in some areas of policy,

OP. Please give examples of how, in 2011, the institutional RCC controls any area of government, public policy or institutions against the will of most of their clients. Just so we don't go down a blind-alley here, citizens who happen to be catholic (or not) influencing public policy doesn't count.

Killer Pigeon · 15-11-2011 01:22PM

In before philologos (a.k.a., Jakkass)

ColeTrain · 15-11-2011 01:22PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

OP. Please give examples of how, in 2011, the institutional RCC controls any area of public policy. Just so we don't go down a blind-alley here, citizens who happen to be catholic (or not) influencing public policy doesn't count.

Shutting the boozers on Good Friday :mad:

dilbert2 · 15-11-2011 01:22PM

Manach wrote: »

The Church, which still has many members in Ireland and worldwide, and provides a firm moral framework which does not bend unlike whatever moral relativism that is the de facto fad of the day.

From the same institution that burnt young women as witches for centuries, invaded the Middle East in the name of god and plundered half the place and in more recent times covered up child sex abuse. Yeah, this crowd have so much to teach us 'moral relativists'. :rolleyes:

yutta · 15-11-2011 01:23PM

The Catholic Church has every right to lobby the Government for change. This is a democracy after all.

KeithAFC · 15-11-2011 01:23PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Reject the Queen and the Church of Ireland too!!

No. Don't. Please..:pac:

mathepac · 15-11-2011 01:23PM

Well at least it's not as bad as England where Lizzie is both Head of State and head of the Church of England (Defender of the Faith). Her bishops, as princes of the Church, automatically get seats in the House of Lords where they are free to comment on, review and influence legislation, including legislation effecting their own religion and others.

Until recently the House of Lords was also the ultimate judicial authority where Lizzie's religious Lords could decide on / influence the outcome of secular law cases. This changed when the Supreme Court was established.

yutta · 15-11-2011 01:24PM

dilbert2 wrote: »

From the same institution that burnt young women as witches for centuries, invaded the Middle East in the name of god and plundered half the place and in more recent times covered up child sex abuse. Yeah, this crowd have so much to teach us 'moral relativists'. :rolleyes:

So how many were killed per year in say, the Crusades, vs. the number killed by atheist regimes in the 20th century? You'll find that the 20th century was by far the bloodiest.

OldGoat · 15-11-2011 01:25PM

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

Well the constitution states ireland is a secular state so I don't know why on earth we're being oppressed by the church ?
As for the government being ruled by the church that's rubbish the politicians are doing what will get them re-elected so therefore its not the church its the public opinion !

One has to swear to a god to take office.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office#Ireland

The Constitution of Ireland specifies, for each of three offices, a "declaration" which the holder must "make and subscribe" before taking office.[19]
Office Declaration: In the presence of Almighty God I, (name), do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will...

President ...maintain the Constitution of Ireland and uphold its laws, that I will fulfil my duties faithfully and conscientiously in accordance with the Constitution and the law, and that I will dedicate my abilities to the service and welfare of the people of Ireland. May God direct and sustain me.

Member of the Council of State ...faithfully and conscientiously fulfil my duties as a member of the Council of State.

Judge ...duly and faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and power execute the office of (office) without fear or favour, affection or ill-will towards any man, and that I will uphold the Constitution and the laws. May God direct and sustain me.

Killer Pigeon · 15-11-2011 01:26PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. Don't. Please..:pac:

The Queen and the Pope ... burn them all!!

I Heart Internet · 15-11-2011 01:27PM

ColeTrain wrote: »

Shutting the boozers on Good Friday :mad:

And yet, last time I checked, it was government controlled licensing laws. Strange that.

Which bishop, priest, nun, monk, or RCC organisations is preventing government from changing this piece of legislation?

yutta · 15-11-2011 01:31PM

OldGoat wrote: »

One has to swear to a god to take office.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office#Ireland

Taking a figurative oath to a higher power isn't the end of the world for non-believers (they are, after all, non-believers). There's both a historical precedence and constitutional continuity to be mindful of. Endless tinkering with the constitution based on the popular opinion of the day will ultimately render the broad thrust of the constitution to the grave.

Anyway, having to swear an oath before God is pretty serious business for believers and it's better to keep it in the constitution even if only 50% of the population identify with God. Public oaths before God are another layer of protection against evil acts. Should we remove these oaths, we'll be opening the flood-gates.

parrai · 15-11-2011 01:33PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

The Queen and the Pope ... burn them all!!

Wow

Snakeblood · 15-11-2011 01:33PM

yutta wrote: »

Taking a figurative oath to a higher power isn't the end of the world for non-believers (they are, after all, non-believers).

How do you know that it's not a big deal to nonbelievers?

dilbert2 · 15-11-2011 01:35PM

yutta wrote: »

Taking a figurative oath to a higher power isn't the end of the world for non-believers (they are, after all, non-believers). There's both a historical precedence and constitutional continuity to be mindful of. Endless tinkering with the constitution based on the popular opinion of the day will ultimately render the broad thrust of the constitution to the grave.

Anyway, having to swear an oath before God is pretty serious business for believers and it's better to keep it in the constitution even if only 50% of the population identify with God. Public oaths before God are another layer of protection against evil acts. Should we remove these oaths, we'll be opening the flood-gates.

I believe that an atheist, or simply a non-religionist of any shade should not be forced to take an oath to a god they do not believe in just becuase they want to run for office. Why should they? As an atheist, I take great offence at such a concept.

When will Ireland have its freedom from the Catholic Church?

Comments