Emptying of septic tanks

scatter · 04-11-2011 12:17PM #1

Do septic tanks have to be emptied at regular intervals,i.e every 4-5 years.If so how much would it cost?

Poor Uncle Tom · 05-11-2011 10:40AM

Septic tanks do need to be de-sludged at regular intervals between 2 and 5 years usually. It costs around €280-350 to get it done properly.

The local farmer calling with his vacuum pump and spreading it on the land is not acceptable anymore.

scatter · 05-11-2011 12:51PM

thanks for your reply ,my tank is in nearly 6 years now .I havent looked into it since it was put in,never had any problems so no reason to.I will have a look and see .:rolleyes:

creedp · 07-11-2011 03:33PM

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Septic tanks do need to be de-sludged at regular intervals between 2 and 5 years usually. It costs around €280-350 to get it done properly.

The local farmer calling with his vacuum pump and spreading it on the land is not acceptable anymore.

Accept this is the case but find it hard to understand how OK for the very same farmer to spread '000 tons of slurry from 100's cattle on his land over a couple of days and not OK for him to spread the contents of a septic tank. Regulations just seem to be like that sometimes ... i.e. make no sense

wobbles · 07-11-2011 03:51PM

I think the reasoning behind it is while slurry from cattle is just slurry, while your septic tank contains a lot of man made chemicals. Think of all the toilet cleaners, shampoo etc that goes to the septic tank. That all gets pumped out onto the land and tiny amounts of it would end up in food.

I dont agree with it but you can see where they are coming from

creedp · 07-11-2011 04:59PM

wobbles wrote: »

I think the reasoning behind it is while slurry from cattle is just slurry, while your septic tank contains a lot of man made chemicals. Think of all the toilet cleaners, shampoo etc that goes to the septic tank. That all gets pumped out onto the land and tiny amounts of it would end up in food.

I dont agree with it but you can see where they are coming from

You'd be amazed with the amount of chemicals finding there way into slurry tanks in yards these days and farmers attempt to keep all kinds of infections/parasites at bay in order to maximise price/profit. I accept, however, that the concentration won't match those in septic tanks. However, we can't forget to mention the amount of chemical based fertilizers and sprays that are spread on the land each year.

Poor Uncle Tom · 07-11-2011 05:05PM

The nitrates directive is attempting to reduce the amount of fertilizers and chemicles entering the human food chain from farming processes. Not allowing the unauthorised spreading of septic tank contents onto agricultural lands is an attempt to stop leechates from human wastes entering the human food chain.

Not nice to consider, I know, but it doesn't mean it can't be spread on agricultural lands, just that enough time must pass before letting animals onto or harvesting from those lands.

sipuser · 09-11-2011 12:11PM

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Septic tanks do need to be de-sludged at regular intervals between 2 and 5 years usually. It costs around €280-350 to get it done properly.

The local farmer calling with his vacuum pump and spreading it on the land is not acceptable anymore.

The practice of Farmers using vacuum pumps is still widespread and common. I was renting a house just outside Kells for a year up to Sept this year, during that year we had problems with the tank not perculating properly and it backing up the drains, the landlord had local farmers 3 times empty it and the young lad driving the tractor told me the spread it directly on the land- I was shocked to hear this, this farming contractor does, harvesting, slurry spreading for local farmers and also empties domestic tanks for locals for 50-75 Euro.
Now consider the danger of this illegal practice, which again is widespread (excuse the pun) across the countryside around Kells and read this article from today.
http://www.fin24.com/Companies/Agribusiness/Ecoli-found-in-imported-cheese-20111109

I wonder if this story will break in the Irish Media

Poor Uncle Tom · 09-11-2011 02:00PM

I have no doubt it is happening and when people are faced with the choice of paying €75 or €350 to do it properly it's easy to see why it is happening.

That is probably going to be the one positive of the new legislation is to make people accountable for their own waste and the proper running of their own treatment system/septic tank and to keep a record of maintanance, etc.,

Kashkai · 09-11-2011 06:38PM

I agree and disagree with you. I pay €200+ to have my tank emptied by a registered company that will cart the waste off to the treatment works whereas a guy I know pays €40 to get his tank emptied by a farmer who then spreads it on his land. Very bloody annoying for me that is:mad:

However I pay my taxes like (mostly) everyone else but yet those on mains sewers pay nothing to have their waste flushed away to the wastewater plant while I'm forking out €200+ (and likely to increase over the years as more "environmental" taxes kick in) to have mine treated at the same wastewater plant. Seems a tad unfair to me but I'm sure those who are on mains sewers would just say "well you want to live in the country".

No1J · 09-11-2011 06:49PM

sipuser wrote: »

The practice of Farmers using vacuum pumps is still widespread and common. I was renting a house just outside Kells for a year up to Sept this year, during that year we had problems with the tank not perculating properly and it backing up the drains, the landlord had local farmers 3 times empty it and the young lad driving the tractor told me the spread it directly on the land- I was shocked to hear this, this farming contractor does, harvesting, slurry spreading for local farmers and also empties domestic tanks for locals for 50-75 Euro.
Now consider the danger of this illegal practice, which again is widespread (excuse the pun) across the countryside around Kells and read this article from today.
http://www.fin24.com/Companies/Agribusiness/Ecoli-found-in-imported-cheese-20111109

I wonder if this story will break in the Irish Media

Funny that today I heard on Newstalk that the government are looking into a tax on septic tanks and that they will be checking the quality of the tanks, inspection fee was €50 I think on over 400,000 houses.
If there was an issue with the tank you would be told that a new standard was needed and they were saying that it could cost around €12,000 to put in a new one.
Seems a bit harsh but Agriculture is very important to the country, must be linked to the E Coli.

STIG83 · 10-11-2011 01:51PM

If you cant spread it on land what you supposed to do with it then? What's wrong with spreading it on land that will be ploughed, spread it and plough it in.
So a farmer near me spreads blood from meat factory on his land and nothing is said about it?
And i tell ya it smells bad when it happens.

sipuser · 10-11-2011 05:33PM

STIG83 wrote: »

If you cant spread it on land what you supposed to do with it then? What's wrong with spreading it on land that will be ploughed, spread it and plough it in.
So a farmer near me spreads blood from meat factory on his land and nothing is said about it?
And i tell ya it smells bad when it happens.

What you supposed to do with it? Dispose of it through a licensed contractor who will make sure it goes through a treatment plant.

Whats wrong with spreading it on the land? If by unlicensed operators then its illegal- under licence from the EPA a farmer can mix it with slurry and spread it BUT the land cannot be used for any purpose for a prescribed period of time- i think its about 10 months.

The problem is that human waste can contain e.coli and if cattle graze then it gets into the food chain. Would you like to eat a potato that was grown in a field spread with human s**t just before planting?

I was shocked to see this going on so much in the area where I lived, if the south african ban on Irish Dairy products goes global what damage will it do to our reputation and exports all because some farmers will take the quick 75euro cash and break the law.

muffler · 10-11-2011 08:22PM

Lets not go down the road of politics and/or trade here please

prettygurrly · 13-11-2011 08:48PM

i think the fact of the matter is that there needs to be more control about where the human waste goes. it is unfair that main sewers users never have to pay for the management of their waste but as is often said, people in the country have a completely different life. No traffic, no noise, no neighbours, I could go on. The waste from septic tanks that haven't been properly maintained is a very big problem in Ireland and unfortunately people that have completely ignored their septic tanks for years and years will be paying the 300 or so euro they should have been paying every 3 years over the last 25 years in one big lot. My parents thankfully have been getting their tank emptied quite often but because my dad's an engineer he knows about how they work. once they get too sludged they stop working completely and nothing can be done except replacing them. there'll have to be some sort of a grant system for replacing the tank on a means tested basis.

(p.s. the human waste that is spread in those countries as mentioned by another poster probably do not have the same amount of chemicals in the sludge as we do)

fodda · 13-11-2011 10:52PM

prettygurrly wrote: »

(p.s. the human waste that is spread in those countries as mentioned by another poster probably do not have the same amount of chemicals in the sludge as we do)

Be nice to think that wouldnt it?

Poor Uncle Tom · 13-11-2011 11:38PM

fodda wrote: »

.....it just shows how duped people are into believing info from?.

Who are you alleging is duping who?

fodda wrote: »

Human sewage was always used as a fertiliser for crops right up untill about 60 years ago? in the UK. I was told that one reason it was stopped was because industrial effulent gets mixed up in sewage so the sewage works had to find other ways of getting rid of it. In some parts of the UK it was dumped at sea until quite recently:) This after spending millions from polluting rivers with the stuff which in turn would have dumped it in the sea anyway:D

Human sewage containing god knows what is still used widely as fertiliser on crops in quite a few places of the world...maybe you are eating some veg right now which has been imported from those countries?:DEnjoy!

We are not in the UK.

fodda wrote: »

Actually there is nothing wrong with just human shi-te as a fertiliser as long as it is well rotted....good stuff apparently.....no different than pig shi-te.....and our ancestors did fine out of the stuff:D.........The chemicals in it from all the detergants and stuff are a different matter, but the all treatment plants do is release treated water which may still contain those chemicals into the rivers and seas and then you eat fish which has been swimming in the stuff saying it is very healthy food.........It's a funny old world!:D

The waste from a septic tank contains far more than shi-te and has to be rendered properly, advocating anything else is reckless.

fodda wrote: »

If you dont want a septic tank get a dry toilet.

And what happens all the other wastes which enter a traditional septic tank?

fodda wrote: »

Oh i stand to be corrected:) as it is still going on?;):D

UK 2010...... http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/shropshire/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9093000/9093065.stm

Wiki.........Such great names they give for a shi-te spreader "The midnight mechanic" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil I suppose some body who nicked the stuff was called a "turd burglar":D.....whoops better not go there;)

No relevance to laws in this country.

fodda wrote: »

There is just as much stuff saying human sewage is bad but how can it be any different than any other animal shi-te? We are just animals after all and with similar digestive systems. Of course if the sewage isnt rotted down propoerly then there is going to be problems with any kind of shi-te no matter where or what animal it comes from.

This is not the thread for those ramblings. I'm not quite sure where a thread on the philosophy of shi-te would go.

fodda wrote: »

Be nice to think that wouldnt it?

And it's probably true. The contents of a latrine, dried and rotted, wont have bleach or disinfectants for root crops to absorb. Septic tank sludge has all this crap. (pun intended)

fodda · 14-11-2011 12:08AM

I am not saying anything on being duped or other what i mean where is the info and the reasons why we cant do things?

If we can go back to the beginning which is the reasons given i believe but i may be mistaken is that septic tanks are not working and that this is why the regulations are being bought in?......So in order to stop the contamination of ground water.........is this correct?

The emptying of septic tanks on to a farmers or land owners land is or isnt allowed?

If it isnt then why? Is it because the actual sewage is harmfull because it is human or is it because it contains chemicals that we flush down the toilet and waste pipes.

It cant be because it is human because as i said we are just animals so our waste is no different, so it must be because it is the chemicals then?

Saying that if the septic tank has been tested and passed then the waste must have been treated because the tank is working properly so in other words must be ok to put on the land (except for chemicals)?

The examples for other countries are just that examples where some and some do not allow sewage to be used on fields..........so in this case going back to the beginning......where is the information coming from to say this practice cannot be done and also is this supposed to be bought in because of an EU ruling in Ireland?

Poor Uncle Tom · 14-11-2011 09:09AM

There are a few issues at play here so lets try to clarify some points.

Using human waste as fertilizer on lands is acceptable if the waste is from the landowners own tank and provided the spreading is carried out in accordance with best practices (not spread between Nov and Feb and the required separation distances, the type of land to spread it on, etc.,). The problem arises where the landowner imports waste to spread on their land. First of all the landowner needs a license to use the lands as a waste facility and second the person carrying the waste needs a waste hauliers permit to do so. All these permits and licenses are in order that the transport and use of all waste can be tracked and that is the law.

The new legislation (we don't know the content of it yet) being brought in, is to try to ensure the quality of our groundwaters. The legislation is being brought in under pressure from Europe over the present poor quality of our groundwaters. (As muffler said above no politics here, just stating facts)

fodda · 14-11-2011 09:38AM

So at the present are you saying that people can empty their own tanks by spreading just their own waste on their own land as long as they obey the rules?

Also as my other points with the example given of another EU country......the farmer obtains his human fertiliser from the people who treated it.........so does that mean that our councils can supply farmers with treated waste as fertiliser as long as they have a license etc?

What are our councils going to do or are doing with their treated waste at present and if the laws say human waste can not be spread on land?

Poor Uncle Tom · 14-11-2011 10:38AM

fodda wrote: »

So at the present are you saying that people can empty their own tanks by spreading just their own waste on their own land as long as they obey the rules?

Which almost rules out everyone except a farmer with enough land for spreading of his/her own waste.

fodda wrote: »

Also as my other points with the example given of another EU country......the farmer obtains his human fertiliser from the people who treated it.........so does that mean that our councils can supply farmers with treated waste as fertiliser as long as they have a license etc?

No, none of the Local Authorities that I am aware of can seperate solid human waste, treat it, dry it and present it as fertilizer.

fodda wrote: »

What are our councils going to do or are doing with their treated waste at present

That's a loaded question. There are many types and sizes of treatment systems within every LA's area, ranging from tanks to actual treatment systems and the wastes from those are allowed to dreakdown aerobically and the run offs generally go to streams, rivers and the sea, very very few are directed to groundwater. However, I don't think it is possible to find one LA where a treatment system under its control is not polluting, but that is my opinion, I know a lot of the LA's are being fined large sums each year because of pollution from some of their treatment systems.

fodda wrote: »

... if the laws say human waste can not be spread on land?

This is not the case, please read that again. What is stated above is that if the permits and licenses are in place it can be done, but there is not enough land available to spread all the treatment systems waste on within the constraints which are in place.

fodda · 14-11-2011 11:01AM

I see so we are going to get tied up with regulations on area sizes.

My reason for asking was because of the earlier reference to dry toilets which i have heard and read of a sew people using who then compost their waste with a view to using?.....sounds a bit odd but more common than you think. But then the area regulations could get you there.

The liquid waste would still go to a septic tank i suppose or soak away? But then they could say you are polluting the ground water so need to have it sucked out and treated.

Poor Uncle Tom · 14-11-2011 11:09AM

I suppose the bottom line is we don't know what will be in the new legislation until it comes out, so lets wait and see.

scatlover · 09-03-2013 08:25PM

My septic tank is on my neighbor's land. If the tank fails inspection and needs complete replacement/overhaul can the neighbor take advantage of this and get me to relocate my tank onto my land, thereby releasing him from the "easement" I have?

muffler · 09-03-2013 08:46PM

scatlover wrote: »

My septic tank is on my neighbor's land. If the tank fails inspection and needs complete replacement/overhaul can the neighbor take advantage of this and get me to relocate my tank onto my land, thereby releasing him from the "easement" I have?

I would doubt if he could but that's a legal question and we don't allow the legal stuff to be discussed here so you would need to check with your solicitor.

Johnoros · 20-09-2016 10:13AM

Human septic tanks contain many chemicals from example : toilet duck, domestos etc. Spreading this on the land is a bad idea in my opinion. You spread it on the land, the grass grows, the livestock eat the grass and then we eat the livestock. All those chemicals from your tank now in the food chain. Is it any wonder there is so much cancer and other diseases in the world.

gctest50 · 20-09-2016 10:32AM

They should recover the gold and the rest from the sludge at the recycling plant

The facility recently recorded finding 1,890 grammes of gold per tonne of ash from incinerated sludge.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-gold-sewage-odd-idUSTRE50T56120090130

BryanF · 20-09-2016 01:08PM

Johnoros wrote: »

Human septic tanks contain many chemicals from example : toilet duck, domestos etc. Spreading this on the land is a bad idea in my opinion. You spread it on the land, the grass grows, the livestock eat the grass and then we eat the livestock. All those chemicals from your tank now in the food chain. Is it any wonder there is so much cancer and other diseases in the world.

Welcome to the C&P forum, please note the date of the above posts, thread closed

Emptying of septic tanks

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