What a scam on TD's Travel Expenses/Overnight Accommodation

Can NOT believe · 01-03-2011 03:53PM #1

Check out Acts of the Oireachtas in the Irish Statute Book online. Under Statutory Instruments No. 84/2010 (Allowances and Facilities) you get clear details of what your local TD is paid per year for travel and overnight accommodation while attending Leinster House. Was told by the Dept. of Finance this morning (1st March) these bands are still in place and it's up to the incoming TD's wheather they vote to get rid of them or not !! Some hope there I'd say !!!

I shall be asking my local TD why he sees fit to claim €12,000 without receipts as this is what they get when living WITHIN Dublin.

Have the Dublin TD's never heard of Dublin Bus ? They do a very reasonable fare of €2.30 per journey in or out of the City.

Check out what your local TD gets paid and ask them if they are willing to give it up ?

For example : If your TD lives in Cork City which is approx 255km from Leinster House in Dublin, they are on Band 8 (240km or more but less than 270km) and so receive €34,850 per year for Travel and Overnight accommodation expenses. Really ! how much can it cost to travel and stay overnight in Dublin when you are only there for Tuesday and Wednesday nights each week during Dail time ?

It's a well known fact that there are plenty of Hotel Offers with rooms available from €40.00 - €60.00 per night midweek for 1 person staying.

When I asked the Dept. of Finance, what happens should a TD not use their full allowance, after a slight hesitation, he told me they POCKET it !!!

effemall · 02-03-2011 12:18AM

one of mick wallaces main points was sorting out all this ****e and he topped the poll in wexford

dinneenp · 28-10-2011 10:27AM

I'm actually going to contact the Gov about this.
it was in the Sunday Times that two tds didn't take this expense, some said it should be changed but still took it...

sensibleken · 28-10-2011 10:30AM

so basically everytime a TD gets a bus a special needs child gets proper care for a day.

thats my campaign slogan for next time round by the way!

dinneenp · 28-10-2011 11:00AM

In 2010 the Dáil sat for 101 days which means that the TDs are getting €118.81 per day!

This is my e-mail:
Hello,

I'm living in Galway and have some questions in relation to the Travel and Accommodation Allowance.
A TD living within 25km of Leinster House receives €12,000 per annum for travel and accommodation unvouched. This increases for the further out the TD lives, €28,106 for distances above 25km but less than 60km.

I find it hard to fathom why members who live within 25km of Leinster House are entitled to claim €12,000, could you please attempt to justify to me why they receive this allowance? A large percentage of 'ordinary' workers live a lot further away from their place of employment but don't receive an allowance towards travelling to work. So on what grounds can it be justified that a TD should get this allowance. Even if they have to work 'late into the night' their home is still less than a 30 minute journey.

I understand that two TDs declined to take this expense, something that I respect them for but it's a pity that everyone else is claiming this.

Also why are allowances and expenses unvouched? I realise that the whole expense and allowances were reviewed and changed recently but to me there's no reason plausible why they sould be unvouched. Especially when people have such little trust and faith in politicians these days, me included.

I look forward to your reply.

TRAVEL AND ACCOMMODATION ALLOWANCE (TAA)
This allowance covers the costs of travel to and from Leinster House, accommodation where applicable and, for Deputies only, constituency travel. The allowance is based on the Dublin band and twelve bands of 30km depending on the distance from Leinster House with a fixed accommodation allowance. Each Member is paid a band allowance based on the distance from their declared normal place of residence to Leinster House.
Yours sincerely,
Patrick Dinneen.

p.s. Please don't reply to me with a written letter, I prefer not to have money wasted.

Godofhellfire · 28-10-2011 02:13PM

I'm very very interested in this! I look froward to hearing any reply.

dinneenp · 10-11-2011 01:35PM

This is the reply I received:

Dear Patrick

Thank you for your email and the points you raise.

Please be advised that such matters are under continuous review.

Regards,

Vincent Gribbin
Head of Internal Communication
Fine Gael Headquarters
51 Uppr Mount St, Dublin 2
01-6198422

And my reply:
Hello Vincent,

Thank you for your reply. But without being sarcastic something like this could be reveiwed and a decision made in one day.
€12,000 for travel and accommodation if living within 25km? There's no need whatsoever for this allowance in my opinion. I'd like to hear how it's justified.

Regards,
Patrick.

dinneenp · 11-11-2011 11:54AM

latest update:

Dear Patrick,
I refer to your recent query in relation to the Travel and Accommodation Allowance.

Attcahed please find an acknowledgemnt I have received from Michael Noon, T.D., Minister for Finance following my representations on your behalf.
I will be in contact with you again when I hear further on this matter.

With best wishes
Yours sincerely
Ciarán Cannon, TD
Minister for Training and Skills

sensibleken · 11-11-2011 12:05PM

dinneenp wrote: »

latest update:

Dear Patrick,
I refer to your recent query in relation to the Travel and Accommodation Allowance.

Attcahed please find an acknowledgemnt I have received from Michael Noon, T.D., Minister for Finance following my representations on your behalf.
I will be in contact with you again when I hear further on this matter.

With best wishes
Yours sincerely
Ciarán Cannon, TD
Minister for Training and Skills

what was the acknowledgement

Supraman · 11-11-2011 12:06PM

They'll just keep pawning you off, you'll just have to be persistent with the e-mails . I wrote to Joe Higgins last year about a piece he had on the galway independent and one of his staff wrote back to me without having properly read/understood what I actually said in the e-mail .

I highlighted what I wanted in my reply to that and I just got the reply that Joe was unavailable to speak about it at the time . Which I found strange as it was an e-mail reply I sought not a press statement .

dinneenp · 11-11-2011 12:50PM

sensibleken wrote: »

what was the acknowledgement

A letter from Brendan Howlin TD to Ciarán Cannon, stating "I wish to acknowledge receipt of your letter on behalf of Patrick Dinneen...I will be in touch."

I'm guessing I would have gotten a letter but originally I stated please reply to me via e-mail instead of post. (waste of time,paper and money)

sensibleken · 11-11-2011 12:58PM

dinneenp wrote: »

A letter from Brendan Howlin TD to Ciarán Cannon, stating "I wish to acknowledge receipt of your letter on behalf of Patrick Dinneen...I will be in touch."

I'm guessing I would have gotten a letter but originally I stated please reply to me via e-mail instead of post. (waste of time,paper and money)

sometimes it works.

For example earlier in the year I was protesting against something and targeted certain TDs with emails. I made sure that it was my TD, the relevant ministers but most importantly TDs that would agree with me, asking it to be raised in the Dail.

everyone first sent me that reply, which may as well be an out of office, but 2, including a minister, got back personally and after a while all our demands were met.

Sometimes hassling politicians and protesting works.

Jeboa Safari · 11-11-2011 05:06PM

Came across this story earlier in the year, its a list of TDs attempting to overclaim these expenses.

http://thestory.ie/2011/02/17/over-100-politicians-overclaim-expenses/

Focalbhach · 11-11-2011 11:31PM

Thanks for this, Patrick. I'll be very interested to see what sort of updates you get!

dinneenp · 15-11-2011 05:34PM

latest update (15 November 2011 17:07):
Patrick,

This Government introduced a number of changes immediately after coming into Office to reduce the cost of the political system on the State.

Specifically the Government:

· Halved the cost of Ministerial transport by reducing Garda involvement and abolishing State cars except for the President, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Justice and Equality for security reasons.

· The permitted staffing of the Private Offices and Constituency Offices of Ministers and Ministers of State was reduced.

· At the first Government meeting, we decided to reduce the Taoiseach’s pay to €200,000 and to reduce the pay of Ministers and Ministers of State pro rata.

The Government also has decided to cut down on the cost of special advisers hired by Government Ministers. It has succeeded in reducing the cost by about 25% when compared to the previous Government.

Special Advisers in this Government are on a lower pay scale when compared to the previous Government and the practice of paying attraction allowances has been abolished altogether.

The biggest reduction in pay is in the Department of An Taoiseach where the previous Government at its peak employed 7 Special Advisers at a cost of almost €1.1 million. An Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, has only appointed 4 special advisers and one for the chief whip with a total pay bill of €576,000, a 47% reduction in costs.

Vincent Gribbin
Head of Internal Communication
Fine Gael Headquarters
51 Uppr Mount St, Dublin 2
01-6198422

and my reply:
Hello Vincent,
Thank you for the reply. I do commend the incoming Government for making these swift changes, which have helped to reduce the cost of the political system on the State. Which is very commendable.

However in relation to the long-standing benefit/expense of the travel and accommodation allowance would you be able to enlighten me as to why this wasn't changed/removed immediately? Or at least tell me why this allowance can be justified for someone who lives within 25km of their place of work. Under the new financial reality I cannot see how this munificence can still be afforeded.

Or is it a case that it's a 'long standing perk' and would affect the pockets of TD's rather than the other (also practical cuts) which do not affect TD's?

Thanks again,
Patrick Dinneen

(this is becoming fun....)

dilallio · 15-11-2011 06:39PM

Fair play to you Patrick.

Some of those expenses are ridiculous.

Supraman · 16-11-2011 11:57PM

Have to commend you for your persistence .

Pride Fighter · 17-11-2011 09:53AM

Eamonn Maloney the new TD for Dublin South West claims zero expenses. Fair play to him, he is the only one I believe.

dinneenp · 11-01-2012 02:18PM

Here's the latest reply, attached.

And on a side note I contacted a few TDs about the Presidents salary:

The salary for the Irish president is just under €250,000 per annum, reduced from €325,000 under the public pay cap legislation. While the reduction was welcome the salary is still excessive in my opinion.

Can you tell me why the salary is so high? There is a lot of compeition for the position and it is a highly sought after position. Several of the candidates stated that they would take the position for a lot less than €250,000.

On top of the salary is a very handsome pension.

I look forward to hearing your reply.

Yours sincerely,
Patrick Dinneen

So far I've gotten 1 reply from Ciarán Cannon, a letter from Brendan Howlin stating....I will be in contact with you again on this matter....

Milk & Honey · 25-04-2012 07:25PM

If there was an allowance for begrudgery how much would you get?

dinneenp · 25-04-2012 08:22PM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

If there was an allowance for begrudgery how much would you get?

I'd get 0. I've nothing against people earning for honest, hard working. And I'm not saying that TD's don't work hard BUT the amount of expenses when they live with 25 miles/kms of Leinster House. Do you not think so?

creedp · 27-04-2012 02:09PM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

If there was an allowance for begrudgery how much would you get?

Its hardly bedgrudgery now is it. Someone gets €12,000 a year for going to work even though he lives less that 25kms away. He could be living 5kms away and on the city bus network/Luas/DART and still get €12k unvouched. That's not accpetable. I have no difficulty with TD being refunded reasonable expenses .. but refunded based on a receipt. No receipt no refund. This is the real world. The idea that someone can claim mileage for a 500km return journey and get the bus/train is plainly wrong. They are all the same, it becomes a sense of entitlement. I've seen an MEP (now a Minister) sitting just behind business class on a flight from Brussels, i.e. paying for cheap fare but claiming for business class, but not content with making a killing on the fare, once the plane took off up he scoots to business class and promptly orders his orange juice etc and paper. Sad to watch really. How do you expect these juys to be concerned with Joe Public's plight when they operate like this??

murphaph · 27-04-2012 02:22PM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

If there was an allowance for begrudgery how much would you get?

You might like taking it up the proverbial arse from politicians spending YOUR money like it was (non-privatised) water but some of us take offence!

Dannyboy83 · 27-04-2012 03:40PM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

If there was an allowance for begrudgery how much would you get?

Blue Code of Silence?

Lockstep · 28-04-2012 09:06AM

Average claims per party:
Average expenses claimed per TD
FG: 36412
Lab: 28756
FF: 45219
SF: 45153
ULA: 35144
Ind: 37805

Source

mikemac1 · 28-04-2012 12:18PM

creedp wrote: »

They are all the same, it becomes a sense of entitlement. I've seen an MEP (now a Minister) sitting just behind business class on a flight from Brussels, i.e. paying for cheap fare but claiming for business class, but not content with making a killing on the fare, once the plane took off up he scoots to business class and promptly orders his orange juice etc and paper. Sad to watch really.

Who was this?
Was it Alan Kelly?

Vizzy · 28-04-2012 04:20PM

Lockstep wrote: »

Average claims per party:
Average expenses claimed per TD
FG: 36412
Lab: 28756
FF: 45219
SF: 45153
ULA: 35144
Ind: 37805

Source

There are some fairly stark differences in there.
For example Willie O Dea (€4,951.84 per month) and his constituency colleague ,Kieran O Donnell (€4,060.17 per month).
And there are loads of others( these two stick out because these are listed one after the other)

murphaph · 28-04-2012 05:07PM

Lockstep wrote: »

Average claims per party:
Average expenses claimed per TD
FG: 36412
Lab: 28756
FF: 45219
SF: 45153
ULA: 35144
Ind: 37805

Source

SF proving (despite their rehetoric) that they are almost as capable as FF are at wasting taxpayers' money. Not a fan of Labour's but they are markedly lower than the rest so fair dues. Should really be a lot less for all of them though and the only expenses should be for travel to the Dail for TDs living outside a commutable distance and they should be fully vouched of course.

oppenheimer1 · 29-04-2012 06:38PM

murphaph wrote: »

SF proving (despite their rehetoric) that they are almost as capable as FF are at wasting taxpayers' money. Not a fan of Labour's but they are markedly lower than the rest so fair dues. Should really be a lot less for all of them though and the only expenses should be for travel to the Dail for TDs living outside a commutable distance and they should be fully vouched of course.

Those figures do not quite tell the full picture as some parties are stronger outside the capital and thus would have larger expense claims. This doesn't excuse the claims though. Considering the long term cost associated with these claims, I think it would be prudent for the state to acquire an apartment block for use of TDs and senators who live outside a reasonable commuting distance from the Oireachtas.

Expenses should not be used to bolster pay and this applies throughout the CS, not just to TDs.

murphaph · 30-04-2012 08:40AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Considering the long term cost associated with these claims, I think it would be prudent for the state to acquire an apartment block for use of TDs and senators who live outside a reasonable commuting distance from the Oireachtas

Sounds like a very sensible idea tbh. It wouldn't even have to be a single block. NAMA properties spread around the city could be gradually set aside for use by TDs when on duty. Given the cost of expenses I think this measure would pay for itself within 20 years and would have very low cost to the taxpayer thereafter.

Lockstep · 30-04-2012 09:47AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Those figures do not quite tell the full picture as some parties are stronger outside the capital and thus would have larger expense claims. This doesn't excuse the claims though. Considering the long term cost associated with these claims, I think it would be prudent for the state to acquire an apartment block for use of TDs and senators who live outside a reasonable commuting distance from the Oireachtas.

Expenses should not be used to bolster pay and this applies throughout the CS, not just to TDs.

To be fair, SF's Dublin TDs have expenses that are higher than the Dublin average. Likewise, the People Before Profit are Dublin based and claim high enough expenses whereas the WUAG TD claims expenses of over 44k a year.

What a scam on TD's Travel Expenses/Overnight Accommodation

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