Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

D'Agger · 08-11-2011 03:49PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I do wish people would stop saying this.

While it was certainly the case for Sunderland first game of the season.

It hasn't been the case recently. In the Swansea & Norwich games specifically we laid siege to the oppositions goal for the last 10 mins of each. Hardly the sign of a team out on their feet.

What's happened imo is that the team has lack urgency for periods in the games. I don't think it's anything to do with fitness like you seem to be implying.

I'm not so sure it's urgency either.

anybody who's played sports will tell you that, in a game, there's going to be periods of dominance - you're rarely going to dominate a team for the entirety of the match.

That's just the way it is...our problem was that Swansea, overlooked as the new boys, play some very nice football and can keep possession well - when they were on top they made us look very bad imo

When we finally started to get back into the match there wasn't much time left and we had to be urgent.

I wouldn't say we were lacking anything with regards to fitness or even urgency - what we're lacking is cutting edge up front and the ability to put the ball in the back of the net - make our dominance show in the one statistic that matters most - the scoreboard

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 03:50PM

I agree (although it comes a bit before injury time!:p) - I don't think its a fitness issue though is my point.

Melion · 08-11-2011 03:52PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I agree (although it comes a bit before injury time!:p) - I don't think its a fitness issue though is my point.

Its not a fitness thing IMO(apart from Adam).

I just cant understand why they sit back for 40-50 minutes EVERY match and then start attacking in the last 5

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 03:54PM

I don't think it's a fitness thing with Adam either.

As has already been pointed out, he's consistantly clocked up more km this season than any other outfield player for us.

whatawaster · 08-11-2011 03:59PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I don't think it's a fitness thing with Adam either.

As has already been pointed out, he's consistantly clocked up more km this season than any other outfield player for us.

That doesn't mean he is as fit as he could be or as fit as we need him to be.
It doesn't tell us when/where he is clocking up most of those km's.

The fact that he runs farther than anyone else does not hide his deficiencies.
He cannot play consistently in a 2 man midfield

Jayob10 · 08-11-2011 04:02PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I don't think it's a fitness thing with Adam either.

As has already been pointed out, he's consistantly clocked up more km this season than any other outfield player for us.

My point is there is something wrong with the rest of the side if Charlie Adam is clocking up the highest amount of km's in a game.

I never criticised his fitness either, rather I said he lacks mobility to play box to box. Which I think is a very fair point. In this system we play he is being a bit exposed. Forced to cover more ground than is natural for him.

If you look back to my original point, I never said he was a poor player, unfit or anything of the like. Rather I said Charlie Adam is going to be more effective in a 3 man midfield, playing alongside a defensive midfielder with pace and another midfielder capable of going box to box.

As part of a 2 man cental midfield he needs to do a bit of everything. And its not his game.

Good management is about creating a system that plays to the players strengths and hides and protects weaknesses.

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 04:04PM

whatawaster wrote: »

That doesn't mean he is as fit as he could be or as fit as we need him to be.
It doesn't tell us when/where he is clocking up most of those km's.

The fact that he runs farther than anyone else does not hide his deficiencies.
He cannot play consistently in a 2 man midfield

I'm sure everyone could be "fitter".

It does mean to me that he is not unfit & that his fitness or lack thereof is nothing to do with the slumps we suffer from during matches. Which is what I think was being implied previous.

His abilities to play in a 2 man midfield or whether or not he is good enough for us are different conversations altogether.

argosy2006 · 08-11-2011 04:05PM

We dropped Carroll for few games, Played really well, Now back in team we play crap. With Carroll out of team we pass and move better,
Dunno why, but we do, Carroll can pass to,
No need to play everything out wide like we did against Swansea,
It was the downing and Enricky show all afternoon, to no avail! Never played through the center of Swansea ,
Lil pass and move in front of their back 4 to break them open,

Jayob10 · 08-11-2011 04:06PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm sure everyone could be "fitter".

It does mean to me that he is not unfit & that his fitness or lack thereof is nothing to do with the slumps we suffer from during matches. Which is what I think was being implied previous.

His abilities to play in a 2 man midfield or whether or not he is good enough for us are different conversations altogether.

well then you need to learn how to read my friend, his ability to play in a 2 man midfield is exactly what the initial debate was about before you chimed in mentioning fitness or whether he was good enough.

he is a very classy player.

Strongbow10 · 08-11-2011 04:19PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

My point is there is something wrong with the rest of the side if Charlie Adam is clocking up the highest amount of km's in a game.

I never criticised his fitness either, rather I said he lacks mobility to play box to box. Which I think is a very fair point. In this system we play he is being a bit exposed. Forced to cover more ground than is natural for him.

If you look back to my original point, I never said he was a poor player, unfit or anything of the like. Rather I said Charlie Adam is going to be more effective in a 3 man midfield, playing alongside a defensive midfielder with pace and another midfielder capable of going box to box.

As part of a 2 man cental midfield he needs to do a bit of everything. And its not his game.

Good management is about creating a system that plays to the players strengths and hides and protects weaknesses.

its hard to disagree with any of this. Adam is a wonderful passer of the ball. Someone mentioned previously that he is similiar to Xabi in the way he moves the ball, and switches the play.

Xabi Alonso however rarely played as part of a 2 man midfield, he always had Mascherano or Sissokho or Hamann alongside him, with Stevie gerrard in front of him.

Asking Adam to play in a 2 man midfield is crazy. As for his fitness, it certainly needs to drastically improve if he is to carry out this role week in week out.

Anyone watching Liverpool will see he looks very tired with around 20 minutes to go.

Even the West Brom game which we won, we were quite poor in the second half. It wasn't as apparent due to how crap they were.

Jayob10 · 08-11-2011 04:38PM

Strongbow10 wrote: »

its hard to disagree with any of this. Adam is a wonderful passer of the ball. Someone mentioned previously that he is similiar to Xabi in the way he moves the ball, and switches the play.

Xabi Alonso however rarely played as part of a 2 man midfield, he always had Mascherano or Sissokho or Hamann alongside him, with Stevie gerrard in front of him.

Asking Adam to play in a 2 man midfield is crazy. As for his fitness, it certainly needs to drastically improve if he is to carry out this role week in week out.

Anyone watching Liverpool will see he looks very tired with around 20 minutes to go.

Even the West Brom game which we won, we were quite poor in the second half. It wasn't as apparent due to how crap they were.

Agreed

Crash Bang Wall · 08-11-2011 04:45PM

Strongbow10 wrote: »

its hard to disagree with any of this. Adam is a wonderful passer of the ball. Someone mentioned previously that he is similiar to Xabi in the way he moves the ball, and switches the play.

Xabi Alonso however rarely played as part of a 2 man midfield, he always had Mascherano or Sissokho or Hamann alongside him, with Stevie gerrard in front of him.

Asking Adam to play in a 2 man midfield is crazy. As for his fitness, it certainly needs to drastically improve if he is to carry out this role week in week out.

Anyone watching Liverpool will see he looks very tired with around 20 minutes to go.

Even the West Brom game which we won, we were quite poor in the second half. It wasn't as apparent due to how crap they were.

If this is the case re Adams fitness, then surely it is up to the management team to take him off if he is cream crackered or close to it? We only used 2 subs on Sat from what I can recall, surely Maxi could have come on for Adam with 10 mins left? Maxi is not a CM, but if Adam is not fit then surely Maxi is a better option?

Sappy404 · 08-11-2011 04:46PM

Melion wrote: »

Its not a fitness thing IMO(apart from Adam).

I just cant understand why they sit back for 40-50 minutes EVERY match and then start attacking in the last 5

I'd say that with 5 minutes to go everybody's on the same page for the first time in a match. Call it a lack of teamwork for the first 80-odd minutes and I wouldn't argue with you. Headless chickens, as Agger said, is a great description.

It needs sorting, and fast.

Jayob10 · 08-11-2011 05:26PM

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

If this is the case re Adams fitness, then surely it is up to the management team to take him off if he is cream crackered or close to it? We only used 2 subs on Sat from what I can recall, surely Maxi could have come on for Adam with 10 mins left? Maxi is not a CM, but if Adam is not fit then surely Maxi is a better option?

its funny you say this, i remember saying in the match thread that i'd have taken adam off for Bellamy at half time in the Swansea game due to the fact Adam had been ineffective in the previous games after the 70 minute mark.

Henderson was poor but i'd have moved him inside to the centre alongside Lucas where he would not be on the periphery. Let Bellamy play wide and inject some much needed pace.

Instead we got Kuyt for Henderson

spockety · 08-11-2011 05:34PM

If we spotted it, and Agger spotted it, you can be damn sure Kenny has spotted it.

I'd be far more concerned if there were "rosey in the garden" comments or god awful excuses coming from the coaching staff, but there are not.

I still think I'm far less concerned than 99% of people here. It is not all that bad, relatively speaking.

Jayob10 · 08-11-2011 05:36PM

spockety wrote: »

If we spotted it, and Agger spotted it, you can be damn sure Kenny has spotted it.

I'd be far more concerned if there were "rosey in the garden" comments or god awful excuses coming from the coaching staff, but there are not.

I still think I'm far less concerned than 99% of people here. It is not all that bad, relatively speaking.

it will be interesting to see if Agger makes way for Carra, that could be very telling.

SlickRic · 08-11-2011 05:38PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

it will be interesting to see if Agger makes way for Carra, that could be very telling.

fire Kenny instantly if he does.

i'm not even sure i'm joking.

Mr Alan · 08-11-2011 05:42PM

SlickRic wrote: »

fire Kenny instantly if he does.

i'm not even sure i'm joking.

Typical kneejerkism from yourself!

:P;)

08-11-2011 05:58PM

Jayob10 wrote: »

it will be interesting to see if Agger makes way for Carra, that could be very telling.

No chance.

Kenny yesterday....

Kenny Dalglish believes Daniel Agger is illustrating just why he should be regarded as one of the best defenders in the Barclays Premier League.

The Dane has made a big impression since returning from injury, helping Liverpool to keep back-to-back clean sheets in his last two league starts.
Dalglish feels he has all the attributes to make him a stand-out performer for the Reds and is hoping his injury problems are now a thing of the past.
"Daniel's a fantastic player but it wasn't just down to Daniel that we've had two clean sheets," said Dalglish.
"He's a fantastic player and he's probably as good as anyone else in his position in the Barclays Premier League.
"He's comfortable in possession and he's a very good defender as well.
"He's a top defender, a top player. He played left-back for us at Stoke as well and did very well.
"It's great to have him back and I hope his fitness remains as it is for a long time."

Carra for Skrtel is likely though

Ganymede Glow · 08-11-2011 06:27PM

Good players dont sugarcoat anything. Fair play I say, tell it like it is. People may not like it but its hard to argue with what he has said

tommyhaas · 08-11-2011 06:28PM

slingerz wrote: »

Charlie Adam covers more ground per game than any other Liverpool player

That's because, according to the Guardian podcast, he has a bigger shadow then any other player :pac:

D'Agger · 08-11-2011 06:54PM

Aggers left legged, Carra is right - it'd make no sense not to play Agger when he's fit on the left CB slot so imo, that'll never happen.

We all know of my love of Agger, but his comments show that he's not afraid of taking up a leadership role in the team so I'm happy to see that.

What we need though is somebody to lead at the front - it's all well and good that we've kept two clean sheets in a row but we're not cutting it up front, that's where the problem lies

DaNiEl1994 · 08-11-2011 06:58PM

christ! has anyone read who was at anfield today

sheamus the big wwe guy from dublin he looks hilarious in our jersey ha!
he said he'd love to give neville a brougue kick

D'Agger · 08-11-2011 07:00PM

DaNiEl1994 wrote: »

christ! has anyone read who was at anfield today sheamus the big wwe guy from dublin he looks hilarious in our jersey ha!

Oh god seeing a ginge wearing red might cause me to go blind!!

mada999 · 08-11-2011 07:21PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I do wish people would stop saying this.

While it was certainly the case for Sunderland first game of the season.

It hasn't been the case recently. In the Swansea & Norwich games specifically we laid siege to the oppositions goal for the last 10 mins of each. Hardly the sign of a team out on their feet.

What's happened imo is that the team has lack urgency for periods in the games. I don't think it's anything to do with fitness like you seem to be implying.

was at the norwich game and watched the Swansea game.. it seemed that the full backs made the effort to get up the pitch not Charlie Adam at that stage of the game..

daithijjj · 08-11-2011 07:40PM

We have already had this discussion about relative 'fitness' last year. People were trotting out the same line for Meireles. The fact is these players in the middle of the pitch cover more ground, simple. When it came from the horses mouth, the club physio, that Meireles covered the same 'mileage' as Kuyt in a game it put his fitness, or seemingly lack of, to bed. Maybe if some others put in as much effort we would be better off, perhaps Agger is inc that in his comments. I would really love to be within earshot of him when he vents and know what he really thinks :pac:

joe123 · 08-11-2011 07:44PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Jesus, thought that was Downing on the ball and not Enrique. How is Downing not even present in either picture? Did he nip off for a burger or something?

That is shocking! I assumed it was downing as well. Absolutely disgraceful that our left back is in the position he is, and our left midfielder isnt even in shot.

Jayob10 · 08-11-2011 07:44PM

daithijjj wrote: »

We have already had this discussion about relative 'fitness' last year. People were trotting out the same line for Meireles. The fact is these players in the middle of the pitch cover more ground, simple. When it came from the horses mouth, the club physio, that Meireles covered the same 'mileage' as Kuyt in a game it put his fitness, or seemingly lack of, to bed. Maybe if some others put in as much effort we would be better off, perhaps Agger is inc that in his comments. I would really love to be within earshot of him when he vents and know what he really thinks :pac:

In fairness to Meireles he bust a gut to get into the box on many occasions.

Charlie Adam doesn't do that and still shows sign of fatigue. Meireles is you stereotypical box to box midfielder anyways, capable at a push of playing as part of a two man central midfield.

Charlie Adam should not be played as part of a 2.

opr · 08-11-2011 07:53PM

The problem as I pointed out a few pages back is that without Gerrard we don't have a player capable of playing as a sort of third in midfield in the front of Lucas and Adam.

Opr

D'Agger · 08-11-2011 07:55PM

I think we should try 4-3-3 as a result of this - if our wing backs are attacking that much and essentially doing the job of our wingers then why play wingers?

Adam - Lucas - Henderson (Gerrards fitness depending) in the middle for the next game

With Suarez, Carroll and Bellamy up top

Suarez told to fúck off out of Carrolls area and out to the wings/linking up with midfield with himself and Bellamy switching constantly and taking on the fullbacks.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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