Muslims say crosses at Catholic University Violate “Human Rights”

Keaton · 27-10-2011 06:54PM #1

From Todd Starnes of Fox News.

Muslims say crosses at Catholic University Violate “Human Rights”

The Washington, D.C. Office of Human Rights confirmed that it is investigating allegations that Catholic University violated the human rights of Muslim students by not allowing them to form a Muslim student group and by not providing them rooms without Christian symbols for their daily prayers. [Lemme get this straight. They enroll in a Catholic University... and it isn't a surprise that it is "Catholic" given that it is called "Catholic University of America". Then they complain that there are Catholic symbols everywhere!]
The investigation alleges that Muslim students “must perform their prayers surrounded by symbols of Catholicism – e.g., a wooden crucifix, paintings of Jesus, pictures of priests and theologians which many Muslim students find inappropriate.” [Perhaps they should enroll at Islamic University of America?]

A spokesperson for the Office of Human Rights told Fox News they had received a 60-page complaint against the private university. The investigation, they said, could take as long a six months. [Could they have had a little help writing the complaint?]

The complaint was filed by John Banzhaf, an attorney and professor at George Washington University Law School. [Ahhh,,,,] Banzhaf has been involved in previous litigation against the school involving the same-sex residence halls. He also alleged in his complaint involving Muslim students that women at the university were being discriminated against. You can read more on those allegations by clicking here.

[...]

Sooo…

I wonder whether Catholic students at King Saud University in Saudi Arabia have rooms with crucifixes for their Masses.

Does Banzhaf has a thing about Catholics and Catholic teaching? First he goes after CUA on behalf of homosexuals and now on behalf of Muslims. Raises questions, no?

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/10/attack-on-catholic-identity-at-catholic-university-of-america/

Jaafa · 27-10-2011 07:11PM

So some people a few hundred miles away made some complaints over something that they shouldn't have. Big deal.

Tom Dunne · 27-10-2011 07:23PM

Keaton wrote: »

From Todd Starnes of Fox News

It was at this point I stopped reading.

Keaton · 27-10-2011 07:33PM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It was at this point I stopped reading.

And that's where you made your first mistake.

Hobbes · 27-10-2011 09:38PM

This isn't a news dumping ground. You post, you are expected to comment on it. Also please read the charter regarding fair use of copying another site.

Also here is a link to a more impartial article on the subject.

http://www.cuatower.com/news/2011/10/20/university-accused-of-discriminating-against-muslims/

Seems like they may have a case, as other universities do cater for Muslims (even catholic ones).

Keaton · 27-10-2011 10:53PM

Hobbes wrote: »

This isn't a news dumping ground. You post, you are expected to comment on it. Also please read the charter regarding fair use of copying another site.

Also here is a link to a more impartial article on the subject.

http://www.cuatower.com/news/2011/10/20/university-accused-of-discriminating-against-muslims/

Seems like they may have a case, as other universities do cater for Muslims (even catholic ones).

But I suppose the larger issue is, do Muslim universities in both America and, say Saudi Arabia, provide prayer room facilities for Catholic students, and if not, why not? Are Catholics allowed to worship in Saudi Arabia? I don't think so. Last thing I heard, you can't even pray the Rosary in public!!!

irishconvert · 27-10-2011 10:56PM

Keaton wrote: »

But I suppose the larger issue is, do Muslim universities in both America and, say Saudi Arabia, provide prayer room facilities for Catholic students, and if not, why not? Are Catholics allowed to worship in Saudi Arabia? I don't think so. Last thing I heard, you can't even pray the Rosary in public!!!

Why are you using Saudi Arabia as a shining example of Islam? It is probably one of the worst examples of how a Muslim country should be run. Catholics can practise their religion in most other Muslim countries in the world.

Hobbes · 27-10-2011 11:04PM

Keaton wrote: »

But I suppose the larger issue is, do Muslim universities in both America and, say Saudi Arabia, provide prayer room facilities for Catholic students, and if not, why not? Are Catholics allowed to worship in Saudi Arabia? I don't think so. Last thing I heard, you can't even pray the Rosary in public!!!

So if I understand you correctly, you do not believe people should be allowed to practise their religion and you are pointing to SA as your proof?

Or do you have anything to show your claims? Or are you just spouting cavutos?

Victor · 27-10-2011 11:41PM

Actually, it modestly concerned me that my local polling station is in the grounds of a church. The Irish Times website had pictures of people in polling booths under a large crucifix.

Why are religious universities in existance? Sure, to teach religion, but presumably Muslim students aren't studying Christian theology, but one of the many other courses.

http://admissions.cua.edu/undergrad/academic/programs.html

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 01:07AM

I wonder how Christians would get on in Islamic countries if they demanded all Islamic symbols were removed ?

Victor · 28-10-2011 04:13AM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I wonder how Christians would get on in Islamic countries if they demanded all Islamic symbols were removed ?

Neither Ireland not the USA are Christian countries.

The pic from the Irish Times.

Tom Dunne · 28-10-2011 11:13AM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I wonder how Christians would get on in Islamic countries if they demanded all Islamic symbols were removed ?

And what symbols would those be?

(Christian in a Muslim country here)

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 12:39PM

Victor wrote: »

The pic from the Irish Times.

If you don't like it, then don't use Catholic owned property for state business.

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 12:44PM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

And what symbols would those be?

(Christian in a Muslim country here)

e.g. Kuwait University Mosque etc.

Hobbes · 28-10-2011 01:03PM

That's reaching. I believe the issue is they don't have a room without religious symbols of a religion they don't follow. They aren't asking for all icons to be removed.

AFAIK Muslims don't have religious icons.

Tom Dunne · 28-10-2011 01:09PM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

e.g. Kuwait University Mosque etc.

A crescent on a building is hardly a religious icon comparable to a crucifix in a room.

Hobbes wrote: »

AFAIK Muslims don't have religious icons.

I believe this is true. Perhaps some of our Muslim regulars could confirm.

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 01:12PM

Hobbes wrote: »

AFAIK Muslims don't have religious icons.

Other than human images. Islam has many icons

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 01:14PM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A crescent on a building is hardly a religious icon comparable to a crucifix in a room.

You're right, its much more visable, it can be seen across the whole campus.

Jaafa · 28-10-2011 01:16PM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Other than human images. Islam has many icons

That's Arabic script. :rolleyes:

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 01:18PM

Jaafa wrote: »

That's Arabic script. :rolleyes:

Any old arabic script ? An advert for Coke perhaps ?

Or used as religious icons and symbols ?

Jaafa · 28-10-2011 01:56PM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Any old arabic script ? An advert for Coke perhaps ?

Or used as religious icons and symbols ?

By that logic, if I write Jesus in calligraphy and hang it up, it becomes a religious symbol.

The Recliner · 28-10-2011 02:07PM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

You're right, its much more visable, it can be seen across the whole campus.

As that symbol is on a Mosque and not say on a Lecture hall I fail to see the problem, are you saying a Mosque shouldn't be identified as or it just shouldn't be identified as one because it is on University property?

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 02:12PM

The Recliner wrote: »

As that symbol is on a Mosque and not say on a Lecture hall I fail to see the problem, are you saying a Mosque shouldn't be identified as or it just shouldn't be identified as one because it is on University property?

Why should a university have a mosque and promote islam ?

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 02:13PM

Jaafa wrote: »

By that logic, if I write Jesus in calligraphy and hang it up, it becomes a religious symbol.

If you are trying to promote and advertise Jesus and Christianity, then yes.

The Recliner · 28-10-2011 02:14PM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Why should a university have a mosque and promote islam ?

Lots of Irish Universities have churches on site, why shouldn't an Islamic country have Mosques on site?

mcmoustache · 28-10-2011 03:23PM

Careful now lads. This is how the crusades started

.

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 05:01PM

The Recliner wrote: »

Lots of Irish Universities have churches on site, why shouldn't an Islamic country have Mosques on site?

Read the OP

Hobbes · 28-10-2011 05:26PM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Why should a university have a mosque and promote islam ?

You appear to be straying off the point. The OP relates to asking the school to cater for a prayer room that doesn't have religious symbols in it. They are not asking for a mosque to be built or an all out ban.

As pointed out on the more level headed link, other schools in the US (even Catholic ones) give a prayer room.

A prayer room is basically an empty room.

How this has gone onto that "Well Saudia Arabia does X, so we can do X" is beyond me. Do people here really want to equate themselves to the actions of Saudi Arabia, as the correct way to do things?

Hobbes · 28-10-2011 05:32PM

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Other than human images. Islam has many icons

Did you google "Islam icons" and just pick the first link? I am aware there are symbols in Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_of_Islam

I am referring to icons as in for example a crucifix. Where Christians are required to pray in front of it.

I don't think Muslims are required to pray in front of those icons you posted.

The Quadratic Equation · 28-10-2011 07:28PM

Hobbes wrote: »

Where Christians are required to pray in front of it.

Never heard of this in my life, what Christians are required to pray in front of it ?

blackthorn · 28-10-2011 07:33PM

In religious context an icon is a picture of a holy person, but the images posted earlier are words. From top right they say Allah (I think, it's a bit stylised), Muhammad, Bismillah (in the name of God, most gracious most merciful) and again Bismillah, and nobody prays to words on a wall. All that is needed for a Muslim prayer room is a clean space with no images of living things. Perhaps a compromise would be to remove the crucifixes etc from the walls while the students are praying and then put them back when the prayer is done. It could be a bit of a palaver if the room is being used up to 5 times a day though.

Muslims say crosses at Catholic University Violate “Human Rights”

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