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No-Gi Divisions.

  • 20-10-2011 11:50AM
    #1
    SDTimeout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭


    I know people have different opinions on this.

    I've been called a sandbagger because I intend on entering the Novice division on Saturdays Grapplepalooza. I'm a white belt who has been training 14 months.

    I don't see a problem with it, my coaches don't see a problem with it, but I have a feeling if I do well in my division then all of Ireland and their dogs will have a problem with it.

    So just to put it up for discussion here is my take on it. It says white belt or -1 years training. I've been told the OR -1 years training is aimed towards guys with other grappling backgrounds ie wrestling or judo. So pretty straight forward for me that I should enter novice.

    Anyone disagree ?


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Comments

  • #2
    paulmclaughlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭paulmclaughlin


    Nope novice sounds good for you.


  • #3
    Clive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    SDTimeout wrote: »
    Anyone disagree ?

    Yes. You have more than one year of training, so you should be in the 1-3 year division in my opinion. I know guys training for ten years who are still whitebelts, they wouldn't dream of entering novice.

    Look at it this way, you have been training BJJ for 14 months, why would a wrestler with no submission experience be in a category above you in a nogi BJJ competition?


  • #4
    cowzerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Clive wrote: »
    Yes. You have more than one year of training, so you should be in the 1-3 year division in my opinion. I know guys training for ten years who are still whitebelts, they wouldn't dream of entering novice.


    What your saying is technically right on what the requirements say but in my opinion at 14 months the novice division sounds spot on, the difference between 14 months and almost 3 years is massive, at 3 years training some lads are amazing, the diffrence between 9 months and 14 months is not that massive in reality

    I suppose like i said you are right but maybe the rules set out for time frames are the problem.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • #5
    Niall0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Niall0


    If you were training two years and still a white belt which division would you enter?
    I wouldnt really call it sandbagging (theres probably been alot worse in previous cometitions) but still if your training 14 months your not a novice either.
    I think this kind of thing puts off beginners (people with a couple of months training) from entering competitions because they wont actually be competing with beginners.


  • #6
    da-bres
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 525 ✭✭✭da-bres


    Who gives a crap, I personally love the opportunity to fight someone who I know is better than me. People in your division should feel the same way.

    Also depends on whatever your goal is, To gain experience and fight good people try intermediate, If you feel you have a good shot at winning and your only goal is to win, do novice. IBJJF rules are like this so you and your coach can decide.


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  • #7
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    guys this is a BJJ tournament, so BJJ belts are used unless you want to move up a division. It's your call.

    In 2012, any tournament that uses IBJJF rules will be run by belt. This is the last experience method I'll use. It's far too hard to police. Some guys seem to add up their total time on the mat :D


  • #8
    theboxingclinic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭theboxingclinic


    There will be guys in the novice section training 4 or 5 months, u have been training 14 months same as myself in grappling. I wouldn't feel right competing against somebody grappling a few short months. I might get smashed by some blue belt in the inter division but I would learn from it rather then compete against beginners.
    Why have rules if people do not follow them!!


  • #9
    theboxingclinic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭theboxingclinic


    Do the rules not stare 1 to 3 years training or blue belt?


  • #10
    monkey8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭monkey8


    With 14 months training you are not a beginner any more.
    I know two guys who have entered with 3 months training. They are beginners.
    you learn more in defeat than you do in victory so don't be afraid to man up and step up to the next level.


  • #11
    brianb10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 ✭✭brianb10


    It would be more understandable if it was your first tournament but you have competed more than once already.


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  • #12
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    At 14 months I'd say it's up to yourself.

    What's your previous competition like? If you've cleaned up in previous beginner divisions it's probably time to move on.


  • #13
    pablohoney87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    The division description is more of a guideline. As barry said its gonna be done by belts like all IBBF ruled competitions (meaning I might have to take a step down in competition)
    If you believe you're just gonna walk into the Intermediate and just get destroyed in a couple minutes then fair enough stick with novice. If you genuinely believe you can give some of the intermediate division a good fight step up. It'll be more rewarding and a better experience and you'll have more fun at the end of the day thats what its really all about


  • #14
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    It's really not that big of a deal.


  • #15
    nino1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭nino1


    SDTimeout wrote: »
    I know people have different opinions on this.

    I've been called a sandbagger because I intend on entering the Novice division on Saturdays Grapplepalooza. I'm a white belt who has been training 14 months.

    I don't see a problem with it, my coaches don't see a problem with it, but I have a feeling if I do well in my division then all of Ireland and their dogs will have a problem with it.

    So just to put it up for discussion here is my take on it. It says white belt or -1 years training. I've been told the OR -1 years training is aimed towards guys with other grappling backgrounds ie wrestling or judo. So pretty straight forward for me that I should enter novice.

    Anyone disagree ?

    at 14 months i don't think its that big a deal but since you've brought it up i think you're putting yourself under pressure as people will be waiting to see if you have the guts to step up.


  • #16
    SDTimeout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭SDTimeout


    The last thing I care about proving to guys from the internet who I meet sporadically about having the guts to face guys who might smash me. I do BJJ because I love it, not because I'm trying to be an Alphamale.

    See you all on Saturday!


  • #17
    da-bres
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 525 ✭✭✭da-bres


    Some benders on this forum, best of luck Andrew its all fun at the end of the day!


  • #18
    theboxingclinic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭theboxingclinic


    its a big deal to guys driving 3 hours to the comp who only have a few months training and end up getting tapped after a minute and ruins their confidence.
    after the last no gi comp there were a lot of complaints that sand bagging was going on, if the rules are adhered to it cuts this out.
    its not about manning up, its about enetering the cateogory that suits the length of time you have been training and giving novices a decent chance in their section.
    im sure if andrew had been destroyed in his first bjj comp by a guy that was training a lot longer then him we would hear about it.


  • #19
    chuckjits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 ✭chuckjits


    Just my two cents, I too have been training for approx 14 months and I've no plans to compete in the immediate future (did a couple a good while ago). But I would have presumed I would have been in the beginner section still. So if your still a white belt and feel it's still going to be competitive i.e your not going to wipe the floor with everybody. Why shouldn't you compete there. Best of Luck anyway.


  • #20
    Liam_B
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 695 ✭✭✭Liam_B


    fellas should just stop moaning and be thankful theres comps and people n the divisions! Tis hard enough to promote the sport without all the "he should be this and he should be that".

    F**k the grinders....do your own thing,,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7z_ztMxBgk


  • #21
    theboxingclinic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭theboxingclinic


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71027717

    heres a link to the giving out that went on after the last comp. a set of rules that are abided by would stop this from happening, not a guide line.
    it would be the fairest way.
    or as barry said for the next comp it will go by belt, then there is no grey area, its black or white, or purple or blue or brown actually.


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  • #22
    crosdad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 ✭✭crosdad


    only one way to solve this................. advanced division


  • #23
    Chris89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Chris89


    its a big deal to guys driving 3 hours to the comp who only have a few months training and end up getting tapped after a minute and ruins their confidence.

    I think that if you are paying money to compete, you should expect to compete. If you are worried about paying money to be 'tapped out' in your first or second match by someone with a years more experience than you then you are in it for all the wrong reasons.

    I know i wouldnt be expecting to win a gold medal after only 3 months training in any sport.


  • #24
    Niall0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Niall0


    Chris89 wrote: »
    I think that if you are paying money to compete, you should expect to compete. If you are worried about paying money to be 'tapped out' in your first or second match by someone with a years more experience than you then you are in it for all the wrong reasons.

    I know i wouldnt be expecting to win a gold medal after only 3 months training in any sport.
    Couldnt you say the same thing about people avoiding the intermediate division?.


  • #25
    Chris89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Chris89


    Niall0 wrote: »
    Couldnt you say the same thing about people avoiding the intermediate division?.

    You can say whatever you want, I think it can be frustrating for people in the advanced division if its the same 2/3 guys every competition. Other than that there doesnt seem to be any shortage of competitors in the beginners and intermediate from what i've seen. :)


  • #26
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    This had want to have been some amazing two months extra training you've done Andrew.

    There are, and will continue to be, grey areas when it comes to nogi. Sure there are grey areas in Gi as well with lads staying at white/blue/whatever for long after they're due to move up.

    In short, if you worry about this, then you're going to spend a long time worrying. It'll all be cleared up next year when I WON'T have this sort of experience category and then you'll all be bitching because your white belt beginner training 3 months comes up against the white belt with 10 years wrestling or judo.

    Train, compete, win, lose. The odds are never always stacked against you and they're never always stacked in your favour. Yes we want to match evenly but without means testing every competitor that will never happen.

    I could have had a check list:
    1) how many years BJJ
    2) how many years Judo/Wrestling/Sambo
    3) how fit are you on a scale of 1-10
    4) how strong are you, like what can you bench press?
    and so on. Many things make up a match.


  • #27
    theboxingclinic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭theboxingclinic


    Niall0 wrote: »
    Chris89 wrote: »
    I think that if you are paying money to compete, you should expect to compete. If you are worried about paying money to be 'tapped out' in your first or second match by someone with a years more experience than you then you are in it for all the wrong reasons.

    I know i wouldnt be expecting to win a gold medal after only 3 months training in any sport.
    Couldnt you say the same thing about people avoiding the intermediate division?.


    I dont think i mentioned Money anywhere. The concern is not about them winning gold, it's about them competing against people of similar level and training time.
    I beleive u had a similar concern after the no gi cup


  • #28
    Chris89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭Chris89


    theboxingclinic wrote: »
    I dont think i mentioned Money anywhere. The concern is not about them winning gold, it's about them competing against people of similar level and training time.
    I beleive u had a similar concern after the no gi cup

    I wasnt saying you mentioned money either, sorry.

    If i remember correctly, my issue was that I had to fight Artur Piotrowski, who I had already fought 2-3 times, he beat me convincingly and I think that was my only fight on the day. I also 'won' a bronze medal.

    The point i was trying to make was that its a shame that all one needs to do to come 3rd in an advanced division in a grappling tournament in Ireland, is show up.

    I dont think thats a similar concern at all!:)


  • #29
    theboxingclinic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭theboxingclinic


    More similar then you know, my division is shaping up to be the exact same with 3 entries, 1 of whom a team mate that I roll with about 4 times a week.

    Chris89 wrote: »
    theboxingclinic wrote: »
    I dont think i mentioned Money anywhere. The concern is not about them winning gold, it's about them competing against people of similar level and training time.
    I beleive u had a similar concern after the no gi cup

    I wasnt saying you mentioned money either, sorry.

    If i remember correctly, my issue was that I had to fight Artur Piotrowski, who I had already fought 2-3 times, he beat me convincingly and I think that was my only fight on the day. I also 'won' a bronze medal.

    The point i was trying to make was that its a shame that all one needs to do to come 3rd in an advanced division in a grappling tournament in Ireland, is show up.

    I dont think thats a similar concern at all!:)


  • #30
    Niall0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Niall0


    Chris89 wrote: »
    I wasnt saying you mentioned money either, sorry.

    If i remember correctly, my issue was that I had to fight Artur Piotrowski, who I had already fought 2-3 times, he beat me convincingly and I think that was my only fight on the day. I also 'won' a bronze medal.

    The point i was trying to make was that its a shame that all one needs to do to come 3rd in an advanced division in a grappling tournament in Ireland, is show up.

    I dont think thats a similar concern at all!:)
    There is currently three people in my division, intermedite 67.5kg one of whom i train with, if no one else signs up tonight all i have to do is turn up and i get a bronze medal. Thats the reason id like to see more people go into intermediate divisions if they have the experience, i dont really have a problem with Andrew competing in the novice division if he feels he is at that level, as Barry said its only 2 months.

    I dont think any responsibility should fall on the organiser either, they have enough crap to worry about. At the end of the day its up to the individual to pick the correct level to compete at and i hope no one is picking below their level to get a few wins and i hope a few more people sign up to my division tonight :pac:.


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  • #31
    theboxingclinic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭theboxingclinic


    Niall summed it up perfectly


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