Liverpool v Manchester United, Anfield, 15th October 12:45 - (MOD NOTE - Post #1)

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:23PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Job done Patrice Evra.

Well done

The fact that you have already made your mind up here means there's no point having a discussion about it with you anymore tbh.

murpho999 · 16-10-2011 12:24PM

flahavaj wrote: »

No, no - but the only waypeople can label Evra a liar is for it to be proven 100% that Suarez didn't say it.

mmm....think I disagree, if your claims cannot be proven then you could be lying.

One thing I don't understand is why did Evra not say it to the ref at the moment of the incident rather than after the game.

bamboozling · 16-10-2011 12:24PM

flahavaj wrote: »

The fact that you have already made your mind up here means there's no point having a discussion about it with you anymore tbh.

Then why do you continue to engage with us?

bamboozling · 16-10-2011 12:25PM

Thread needs some quality tuneage.

Essien · 16-10-2011 12:25PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Would they be trained on two players when the bal is down the other end of the pitch? What about in the tunnel etc etc.

I'm not sure we can take camera evidence as absolute in this case whih is going to make it a nightmare to investigate tbh. Awful messy situation.

I'd say there's more than enough camera evidence to allow the FA to come to a reasonable conclusion here tbh. If he said it at least 10 times, like Evra alleges, he will be caught at least once. I'd say it's naive to assume otherwise.

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:26PM

murpho999 wrote: »

mmm....think I disagree, if your claims cannot be proven then you could be lying.

Or you could be telling the truth. You can't say either without certainty without proving he didn't say it.

One thing I don't understand is why did Evra not say it to the ref at the moment of the incident rather than after the game.

Maybe he did? If he had and the referee hadn't heard it the there 's not much he can do except put it in his report.

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:26PM

flahavaj wrote: »

The fact that you have already made your mind up here means there's no point having a discussion about it with you anymore tbh.

Flah, if there was anything to show that he was racially abusing him throughout the game as Evra said, it'd be all over Sky Sports News at this stage. It isn't, so in my opinion, there isn't.

Blatter · 16-10-2011 12:27PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Job done Patrice Evra.

Well done

It's pretty shocking that you've already come to a conclusion.

I'm sure if the roles were reversed and a Liverpool player accused a United player of racism, you'd be singing from a different hymn sheet.

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:28PM

bamboozling wrote: »

Then why do you continue to engage with us?

I was talking to Alan.

I also think it important to point out the flawed and biased logic being employed here by more than one poster.

Are you inagreement with Alan and have made your mind up already too?

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:28PM

bamboozling wrote: »

Then why do you continue to engage with us?

It makes me uncomfortable that we're in such agreement about this.

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:29PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

It makes me uncomfortable that we're in such agreement about this.

If this doen't make you re-evaluate your stance then I don't know what will tbh.

Essien · 16-10-2011 12:29PM

Blatter wrote: »

I'm sure if the roles were reversed and a ________ player accused a _______ player of ______, you'd be singing from a different hymn sheet.

....is an infinitely interchangeable sentence on the Soccer forum.

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:30PM

Essien wrote: »

I'd say there's more than enough camera evidence to allow the FA to come to a reasonable conclusion here tbh. If he said it at least 10 times, like Evra alleges, he will be caught at least once. I'd say it's naive to assume otherwise.

Hopefully. An inconclusive verdict will lead to some gross stupidity on behalf of one or both sets of supporters.

bamboozling · 16-10-2011 12:31PM

flahavaj wrote: »

I was talking to Alan.

I also think it important to point out the flawed and biased logic being employed here by more than one poster.

Are you inagreement with Alan and have made your mind up already too?

I am in agreement with Alan. This should be easily proved with so many cameras. My main issue too is that the claimant is Evra who has been a party in allegations of racism that were not proven to have transpired. Had Ashley Young made the allegation I doubt that I would have been as quick to judge.

Mr Alan wrote: »

It makes me uncomfortable that we're in such agreement about this.

You are either regressing as a poster or the Bam Man is progressing?!!!

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:31PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Flah, if there was anything to show that he was racially abusing him throughout the game as Evra said, it'd be all over Sky Sports News at this stage. It isn't, so in my opinion, there isn't.

Ah yes, Sky Sports News, judge jury and executioner in all footbaling maters. Rubbish.

Blatter · 16-10-2011 12:32PM

Essien wrote: »

....is an infinitely interchangeable sentence on the Soccer forum.

True, but it can be said more so for some than others.

murpho999 · 16-10-2011 12:37PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Or you could be telling the truth. You can't say either without certainty without proving he didn't say it.

An accuser should always have more onus to prove he is not lying than the accused.

Maybe he did? If he had and the referee hadn't heard it the there 's not much he can do except put it in his report.

Well I saw both go to ref and it didn't appear to be much coming from Evra at the time. That was when he should have said 'He's just called me a n*****r ten times and I resent it.

Very easy to come out afterwards and say it and also some coloured people (not all) are prone to using the racist card when they want to, seen it happen before in work environments and it's always a very difficult situation when it happens.

murpho999 · 16-10-2011 12:39PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Ah yes, Sky Sports News, judge jury and executioner in all footbaling maters. Rubbish.

In fairness they're the ones with the cameras and all the pictures.

ROCKMAN · 16-10-2011 12:40PM

Well in all fairness its not the first time Suarez's mouth has got him in trouble :pac:

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:41PM

Flah, as has been pointed out already;

Evra wrote:

“There are cameras, you can see him (Suarez) say a certain word to me at least 10 times.”

If it's not on camera (like Evra has said), he is lying in an effort to give his accusations credibility.

mike65 · 16-10-2011 12:43PM

You'd imagine someone at Sky Towers is going over the tapes with a fine tooth comb so they can trumpet a big story, (however they may be doing so at the behest of the FA as well of course and so are perhaps duty bound to say nothing until a verdict is passed).

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:44PM

murpho999 wrote: »

An accuser should always have more onus to prove he is not lying than the accused.

This doesn't tie in with what ye were sying earlier. Its Suarez in the dock not Evra. The focus in any investigation whether you like it or not will be on Suarez' innocence or gult. What I would do if I was Suarez and I knew I hadn't done it would be let the investigation prove my innocence and then ask the FA to start a seperate investigation into Evra and make him have to defend his position in the same way Suarex had to. I don't think you can prove both things fully in a single investigation.

Well I saw both go to ref and it didn't appear to be much coming from Evra at the time. That was when he should have said 'He's just called me a n*****r ten times and I resent it.

You have no clue what was said at any stage of any exchange on the pitch to be fair.

Very easy to come out afterwards and say it and also some coloured people (not all) are prone to using the racist card when they want to, seen it happen before in work environments and it's always a very difficult situation when it happens.

And its appalling when anyone does so maliciously - I've even had the racist card played on me once in work. But you can't say that this is the case here either, we'll have to wait to see the evidence either way. All you're doing is speculating and its telling that most of your speculation is aimed to paint the Liverpool layer in a better light.

TheTownie · 16-10-2011 12:46PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Flah, as has been pointed out already;

If it's not on camera (like Evra has said), he is lying in an effort to give his accusations credibility.

The quotes I've read that were attributed to Evra, I haven't read him mentioning the cameras. Where did you get that quote?

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:47PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Flah, as has been pointed out already;

If it's not on camera (like Evra has said), he is lying in an effort to give his accusations credibility.

If that line is used in the official investigation that that will have to be proven, sure.

At this point I think it would have served his case better for Evra to keep his mouth shut, he may very well have compromised his case by making such a statement.

El Inho · 16-10-2011 12:47PM

flahavaj wrote: »

No, no - but the only waypeople can label Evra a liar is for it to be proven 100% that Suarez didn't say it.

okay so by using all the video footage from the game we will wait and see if he said it thats 100% fair.

if its on video guilty
if not Evra is guilty of defamation.

simples.

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:48PM

That's from the quotes that emerged last night

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:49PM

eldwaro wrote: »

okay so by using all the video footage from the game we will wait and see if he said it thats 100% fair.

if its on video guilty
if not Evra is guilty of defamation.

simples.

Your logic is based on the assumption that everything that is said between two players over 90 minutes can be captured clearly and comprehensibly on camera.

Mars Bar · 16-10-2011 12:50PM

Jesus lads, are ye not dizzy yet?

Blatter · 16-10-2011 12:51PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Well I saw both go to ref and it didn't appear to be much coming from Evra at the time. That was when he should have said 'He's just called me a n*****r ten times and I resent it.

Very easy to come out afterwards and say it and also some coloured people (not all) are prone to using the racist card when they want to, seen it happen before in work environments and it's always a very difficult situation when it happens.

Evra did go to the ref during the game? He was furious and ended up getting a booking for hassling the ref too much?

This is the incident that I was referring to earlier.

Look at the way Evra pushed Suarez's hand off him there in disgust, which as I've said already, was very unlike him to reject a goodwill gesture from a fellow player. It was a ''I don't even want to look at you'' reaction.

El Inho · 16-10-2011 12:52PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Your logic is based on the assumption that everything that is said between two players over 90 minutes can be captured clearly and comprehensibly on camera.

well yes, if a man is arrested for robbing a store and he isnt on cctv robbing the store he's hardly going to be convicted now is he.

Liverpool v Manchester United, Anfield, 15th October 12:45 - (MOD NOTE - Post #1)

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