Liverpool v Manchester United, Anfield, 15th October 12:45 - (MOD NOTE - Post #1)

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 11:59AM

bamboozling wrote: »

I would assume that Manchester United F.C having their facts correct would be of far more importance than whether a keyboard warrior has theirs correct.

All you seem to do is make assumptions which ultimately is futile Bam Man,

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:01PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Lets hope you have your facts rigtht when you're discussing the case next time too.

Are you really attempting to compare me chatting **** on a message board with Phelan & Co (senior Man Utd officials) lying in their statements in an FA hearing to try & label someone a racist & give Evra a motive for acting like a thug?

Blatter · 16-10-2011 12:01PM

I remember one point in the game yesterday when Suarez went to shake Evra's hand and Evra completely refused and pushed Suarez's outstretched hand away in disgust.

I was thinking to myself at the time that it was really unusual for Evra to do that, he's usually a very good professional on the pitch and I've never seen him react like that before, and I was mystified at the time.

However, if it's true that Suarez racially abused him, it would all make sense. (Note that I used the word if there, I'm not assuming that Suarez did racially abuse him, just like I'm not assuming that Evra is lying, unlike others around here)

Leiva · 16-10-2011 12:02PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Lets hope you have your facts rigtht when you're discussing the case next time too.

But didn't the FA say something along the lines of "we simply don't believe you" in the Chelsea racism row .

Well the way I take translation of "we don't believe you" is your lying .

Is that a step too far ?

El Inho · 16-10-2011 12:03PM

Blatter wrote: »

I remember one point in the game yesterday when Suarez went to shake Evra's hand and Evra completely refused and pushed Suarez's outstretched hand away in disgust.

I was thinking to myself at the time that it was really unusual for Evra to do that, he's usually a very good professional on the pitch and I've never seen him react like that before, and I was mystified at the time.

However, if it's true that Suarez racially abused him, it would all make sense. (Note that I used the word if there, I'm not assuming that Suarez did racially abuse him, just like I'm not assuming that Evra is lying, unlike others around here)

its possible...also possible that Evra was so enraged he made claims after the match... but here...

were never going to know until the investigation is sorted....

anyone actually heard a timeline no??

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:03PM

eldwaro wrote: »

i actually cant read...i simply hit keys and until just now have gotten away with it...nearly 600 posts without getting caught out was a damn good run if i do say so myself.

my point is, there is as much chance of Suarez being guilty as there is Evra....noone knows yet. you tried to portray yourself and mature and sensible without any partiality only to end up showing your bias...

It's quite simple...video evidence (as readers of Nuts will agree) will catch any remarks that were made...as can anyone with a Sky+ box. If these are found...Suarez guilty. If they are not found, Evra guilty. The only other option here is the French media made it all up to cover the fact Suarez destroyed the backs for 90mins.

If it is caught definitively on camera then Suarez is guilty.

If it isn't caught on camera than unfortunately for you lot Evra cannot be said definitively to be a liar, but equally Suarez can't be labelled a racist.

Thats what this boils down to, but regardless fans on either side will spout all kinds of biased boll*x in favor of their tem's payer. Weve already seen Liverpool fans o whom I'd normally expect better say they've already made their minds up which means tbh they're not worth debating the matter at all with.

16-10-2011 12:06PM

Blatter wrote: »

I remember one point in the game yesterday when Suarez went to shake Evra's hand and Evra completely refused and pushed Suarez's outstretched hand away in disgust.

I was thinking to myself at the time that it was really unusual for Evra to do that, he's usually a very good professional on the pitch and I've never seen him react like that before, and I was mystified at the time.

However, if it's true that Suarez racially abused him, it would all make sense. (Note that I used the word if there, I'm not assuming that Suarez did racially abuse him, just like I'm not assuming that Evra is lying, unlike others around here)

That's putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

They had a few scuffles before that, Suarez caught him with a challenge and Evra made a bit of a meal of it imo. They were at each other quite a bit throughout the game.

Evra was also kissing his badge in front of Liverpool fans, always a clever thing to do in these games.

El Inho · 16-10-2011 12:06PM

flahavaj wrote: »

If it isn't caught on camera than unfortunately for you lot Evra cannot be said definitively to be a liar,

.

yes he can...quite easily...

IF Suarez is innocent....

Patrice Evra is a liar....

that wasnt so hard.

homerjay2005 · 16-10-2011 12:06PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

People in glasshouses...

typical liverpool supporters response, always point the finger at somebody else, ye for some reason have a fondness of pointing out flaws in united players, anytime your own players act like cheats. 3 of your players were at it yesterday, united didnt do a whole lot wrong yesterday but ye still make up nonsense.

one thing i will say, is well done jamie carragher yesterday, welbeck went in wrecklessly and carragher didnt react to it, great to see that the local lads have pride in the clubs heritage and carragher should be applauded for that.

he should have a word with suarez, downing and adam after their swan lake performances yesterday.

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:07PM

mixednuts wrote: »

But didn't the FA say something along the lines of "we simply don't believe you" in the Chelsea racism row .

Well the way I take translation of "we don't believe you" is your lying .

Is that a step too far ?

I think that was just the sensational headline in the Daily Fail.

The evidence given by United staff was found to be contradictory. The actions of the groundsman were found to be abusive and threatening but they have no power to discipline him. Evra was banned for four matches for his behaviour.

Again its wort repeating Evra said he heard no racist comments. (I think we need a sticky to point this fact out tbh!, its been bandied out a half dozen times at this stage).

El Inho · 16-10-2011 12:08PM

this has to be said aswell in fairness

16-10-2011 12:09PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

typical liverpool supporters response, always point the finger at somebody else, ye for some reason have a fondness of pointing out flaws in united players, anytime your own players act like cheats. 3 of your players were at it yesterday, united didnt do a whole lot wrong yesterday but ye still make up nonsense.

one thing i will say, is well done jamie carragher yesterday, welbeck went in wrecklessly and carragher didnt react to it, great to see that the local lads have pride in the clubs heritage and carragher should be applauded for that.

he should have a word with suarez, downing and adam after their swan lake performances yesterday.

Who cheated?

Ferdinand has admitted to fouling Adam, so your talking out of your hoop. Not for the first time

You have cheats playing for your own team too. Many of them.

As I said, people in glasshouses..

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:10PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are you really attempting to compare me chatting **** on a message board with Phelan & Co (senior Man Utd officials) lying in their statements in an FA hearing to try & label someone a racist & give Evra a motive for acting like a thug?

It was a throwaway light hearted comment dude relax.

Did the FA say the United staff lied?

They didn't need to provide a motive for Evra anyway, the grounsman was shown to have acted in a threatening and abusive manner.

mike65 · 16-10-2011 12:11PM

flahavaj wrote: »

If it is caught definitively on camera then Suarez is guilty.

If it isn't caught on camera than unfortunately for you lot Evra cannot be said definitively to be a liar, but equally Suarez can't be labelled a racist.

Thats what this boils down to, but regardless fans on either side will spout all kinds of biased boll*x in favor of their tem's payer. Weve already seen Liverpool fans o whom I'd normally expect better say they've already made their minds up which means tbh they're not worth debating the matter at all with.

What will happen is that the opposition will now have something else to beat Suarez with even if he is quite innocent of racism.

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:12PM

eldwaro wrote: »

yes he can...quite easily...

IF Suarez is innocent....

Patrice Evra is a liar....

that wasnt so hard.

If you can prove 100% Suarez is inocent then sure Evra is a liar and should be banned for a long time. I wouldn't stand by and defend anyone that made such vile accusations when they weren't true.

BUT, I don't think you can say with 100% certainty that Suarez is innocent simly because there's no camera evidence.

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:13PM

flahavaj wrote: »

It was a throwaway light hearted comment dude relax.

Did the FA say the United staff lied?

They were all just mistaken were they?!

Come on :rolleyes:

K-9 · 16-10-2011 12:14PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Can you read?

I said if the charges a re dropped due to lack of evidence. that does not automatically equate to Evra being a liar, even though ye will no doiubt assume he is.

It seem to me like most United fans here are waiting for it to be investigated before criticisiing either side while Liverpool fans immediately assumed Suarez was innocent and started rabbiting on about "previous history" etc etc. Funny that. I guess the old poesecution complex runs deeper than ye would care to admit.

Innocent until guilty and all that. I don't see any evidence to suggest he isn't!

16-10-2011 12:14PM

flahavaj wrote: »

If you can prove 100% Suarez is inocent then sure Evra is a liar and should be banned for a long time. I wouldn't stand by and defend anyone that made such vile accusations when they weren't true.

BUT, I don't think you can say with 100% certainty that Suarez is innocent simly because there's no camera evidence.

There are dozens of cameras at matches, it be definately be picked up if he said anything.

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:14PM

mike65 wrote: »

What will happen is that the opposition will now have something else to beat Suarez with even if he is quite innocent of racism.

On the flipside the opposition would now have somethng to beat Evra with if the accusation did happen but wasn't picked up on camera.

Bear in mind I said IF.

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:16PM

flahavaj wrote: »

BUT, I don't think you can say with 100% certainty that Suarez is innocent simly because there's no camera evidence.

This is why 'mud sticks'

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:16PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

There are dozens of cameras at matches, it be definately be picked up if he said anything.

Would they be trained on two players when the bal is down the other end of the pitch? What about in the tunnel etc etc.

I'm not sure we can take camera evidence as absolute in this case whih is going to make it a nightmare to investigate tbh. Awful messy situation.

Blatter · 16-10-2011 12:17PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

That's putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

They had a few scuffles before that, Suarez caught him with a challenge and Evra made a bit of a meal of it imo. They were at each other quite a bit throughout the game.

Evra was also kissing his badge in front of Liverpool fans, always a clever thing to do in these games.

Not really, because I didn't make any definitive judgement, so I have come up with no answer.

I'm only putting what I saw, and what I thought of it at the time, out there.

Evra has had many a tough battle with opponents throughout the years and I've never seen him refuse a handshake or a good gesture like that. As I said, he's normally very professional with regards respecting opposition players on the pitch, and I was surprised when I saw how he reacted towards Suarez when he tried to shake Evra's hand(or pat him on the shoulder, can't remember exactly, just remember Evra blatantly refusing)

murpho999 · 16-10-2011 12:17PM

flahavaj wrote: »

If you can prove 100% Suarez is inocent then sure Evra is a liar and should be banned for a long time. I wouldn't stand by and defend anyone that made such vile accusations when they weren't true.

BUT, I don't think you can say with 100% certainty that Suarez is innocent simly because there's no camera evidence.

I thought justice was presumed innocent until proven guilty?

Now Suarez has to prove he didn't say it?

mike65 · 16-10-2011 12:18PM

flahavaj wrote: »

On the flipside the opposition would now have somethng to beat Evra with if the accusation did happen but wasn't picked up on camera.

Bear in mind I said IF.

I suspect accusation of racism has a much stronger pull than a false accusation among opposition supporters when they want to get to work on a player.

murpho999 · 16-10-2011 12:18PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

There are dozens of cameras at matches, it be definately be picked up if he said anything.

Surely it's microphones that are needed more and not camera's or do they really rely on lip readers?

bamboozling · 16-10-2011 12:19PM

flahavaj wrote: »

On the flipside the opposition would now have somethng to beat Evra with if the accusation did happen but wasn't picked up on camera.

Bear in mind I said IF.

Fans don't need any stick to beat Evra with. His performances over the past 2 seasons has ensured that.

Blatter · 16-10-2011 12:20PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

They were all just mistaken were they?!

Come on :rolleyes:

I suppose Marcello was definitely mistaken when he accused Busquets' of racism because UEFA found him not guilty, eh?

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:20PM

murpho999 wrote: »

I thought justice was presumed innocent until proven guilty?

Now Suarez has to prove he didn't say it?

No, no - but the only waypeople can label Evra a liar is for it to be proven 100% that Suarez didn't say it.

Mr Alan · 16-10-2011 12:21PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Would they be trained on two players when the bal is down the other end of the pitch? What about in the tunnel etc etc.

I'm not sure we can take camera evidence as absolute in this case whih is going to make it a nightmare to investigate tbh. Awful messy situation.

Job done Patrice Evra.

Well done

flahavaj · 16-10-2011 12:22PM

bamboozling wrote: »

Fans don't need any stick to beat Evra with. His performances over the past 2 seasons has ensured that.

Evra's admittedly sh*t form over the last two years is irrelevant.

Liverpool v Manchester United, Anfield, 15th October 12:45 - (MOD NOTE - Post #1)

Comments