Clare GAA discussion thread

Galtee · 07-10-2011 02:41PM

premierstone wrote: »

He has very little chance of actually getting an award, zero infact, but yeah I thought he was deserving of a nomination and likewise last year, I cant think of any half back who was unfairly ommitted this year.

I know plenty about Clare hurling and what resources are available, but I also think ye have made the worst possible management appointment in living memory, the only possible worse apppointment would have been Babs!

Yes Vaughan is not a natural corner back, but midfield is one area where Clare are actually at the level required, and Clare were actually beating Tipp in midfield this year untill Nicky O'Connell had to leave the field due to illness, half back is probably where he should be played.

tbh I think you're way off the mark here. I think davy fitz will do a great job at the helm. Great player in his day, great enthusiasm, knows how to win, what more can he provide as credentials for the position.

kstand · 07-10-2011 02:49PM

Well premierstone you're spot on about Len Gaynor, it was he who laid the groundwork for the success in the Loughnane era. It would be great to have another Len Gaynor to come in to it now, but there just arent that many lads like that out there and even if there was, the county board couldnt afford someone like that. Personally I'd like to have had Daly back, but he has Dublin on to a good thing now. Regarding John Minogue and that team, while they ahd great success in 08 (wont go into that one) and 09, some of the selection decisions etc that they made in 2010 and against limerick this year at U21 left a lot to be desired.
I have my reservations about Davy and all I can say is that I hope he has learned. No one in the county will complain next summer if he gets us back into the top flight and into the Munster Final.

Galtee · 07-10-2011 02:58PM

kstand wrote: »

Well premierstone you're spot on about Len Gaynor, it was he who laid the groundwork for the success in the Loughnane era. It would be great to have another Len Gaynor to come in to it now, but there just arent that many lads like that out there and even if there was, the county board couldnt afford someone like that. Personally I'd like to have had Daly back, but he has Dublin on to a good thing now. Regarding John Minogue and that team, while they ahd great success in 08 (wont go into that one) and 09, some of the selection decisions etc that they made in 2010 and against limerick this year at U21 left a lot to be desired.
I have my reservations about Davy and all I can say is that I hope he has learned. No one in the county will complain next summer if he gets us back into the top flight and into the Munster Final.

I'm sorry but could this be explained? Len Gaynor was only around for 3years and for 2 of those years Ger Loughnane was selector wasn't he? He had been managing the u-21 the year prior. I don't see how clares success under loughnane could be entirely attributed to Len Gaynor unless I've missed something crucial?

premierstone · 07-10-2011 03:05PM

Galtee wrote: »

I'm sorry but could this be explained? Len Gaynor was only around for 3years and for 2 of those years Ger Loughnane was selector wasn't he? He had been managing the u-21 the year prior. I don't see how clares success under loughnane could be entirely attributed to Len Gaynor unless I've missed something crucial?

Nobody is for one minute saying it was ''entirely attributed'' to Len Gaynor for one second and no one is either trying to diminish Ger Loughnanes achievements, the point I was making was that Len Gaynor had put the foundations in place, without which Loughnanes job would have been a hell of alot more difficult, a fact that Loughnane has repeatedly stated himself, and when Loughnane praises a Tipp man there has to be something to it!!

kstand · 07-10-2011 03:07PM

premierstone wrote: »

Nobody is for one minute saying it was ''entirely attributed'' to Len Gaynor for one second and no one is either trying to diminish Ger Loughnanes achievements, the point I was making was that Len Gaynor had put the foundations in place, without which Loughnanes job would have been a hell of alot more difficult, a fact that Loughnane has repeatedly stated himself, and when Loughnane praises a Tipp man there has to be something to it!!

My point entirely. Len gaynor did great work with that team, Loughnane worked with him and took over and carried it on.

premierstone · 07-10-2011 03:14PM

Galtee wrote: »

tbh I think you're way off the mark here. I think davy fitz will do a great job at the helm. Great player in his day, great enthusiasm, knows how to win, what more can he provide as credentials for the position.

Great player in his day - never suggested otherwise and one of the best keepers to play the game, its irrelevant though, look at John Leahy's carrer as a manager/selector, Liam Sheedy was only a bit player and never really established intercounty.

Great enthusiasm - Again I have acknowledged that previously, he is a tremendously motivated and eager guy, imo too much at times and lets he's emotions get the better of him.

What more can he provide - He is incredibally naive tactically, look at this years Munster Final and while that is the more obvious examples he's reign in Waterford was full of similar errors of judgement, they just didnt all have the calamitious effect of that one.

Davy has been lauded for hes success with LIT and basically got the Waterford job on the baxck of that, just have a look back at the team he had in that, any club manager worth their salt woulf have won the Fitzgibion Cup with what was for all intents and purposes an intercounty team.

All these posts make it sound like I have some sort of personal agenda against the man, I really dont and I greatly admire he's drive, passion and desire to win but IMO he is very immature as a manager and never really served an appropriate apprentiship in management.

Galtee · 07-10-2011 03:23PM

kstand wrote: »

Well premierstone you're spot on about Len Gaynor, it was he who laid the groundwork for the success in the Loughnane era. It would be great to have another Len Gaynor to come in to it now, but there just arent that many lads like that out there and even if there was, the county board couldnt afford someone like that. Personally I'd like to have had Daly back, but he has Dublin on to a good thing now. Regarding John Minogue and that team, while they ahd great success in 08 (wont go into that one) and 09, some of the selection decisions etc that they made in 2010 and against limerick this year at U21 left a lot to be desired.
I have my reservations about Davy and all I can say is that I hope he has learned. No one in the county will complain next summer if he gets us back into the top flight and into the Munster Final.

premierstone wrote: »

Nobody is for one minute saying it was ''entirely attributed'' to Len Gaynor for one second and no one is either trying to diminish Ger Loughnanes achievements, the point I was making was that Len Gaynor had put the foundations in place, without which Loughnanes job would have been a hell of alot more difficult, a fact that Loughnane has repeatedly stated himself, and when Loughnane praises a Tipp man there has to be something to it!!

Well the two parts in bold above would seem contradictory to me.

Clare got to 2 munster finals under the management of Gaynor and they were hammered off the field in both. If anything it was loughnane coming in that bolstered that team. Not taking from Len Gaynor but to say he laid the groundwork is nonsense.

Galtee · 07-10-2011 03:26PM

premierstone wrote: »

Great player in his day - never suggested otherwise and one of the best keepers to play the game, its irrelevant though, look at John Leahy's carrer as a manager/selector, Liam Sheedy was only a bit player and never really established intercounty.

Great enthusiasm - Again I have acknowledged that previously, he is a tremendously motivated and eager guy, imo too much at times and lets he's emotions get the better of him.

What more can he provide - He is incredibally naive tactically, look at this years Munster Final and while that is the more obvious examples he's reign in Waterford was full of similar errors of judgement, they just didnt all have the calamitious effect of that one.

Davy has been lauded for hes success with LIT and basically got the Waterford job on the baxck of that, just have a look back at the team he had in that, any club manager worth their salt woulf have won the Fitzgibion Cup with what was for all intents and purposes an intercounty team.

All these posts make it sound like I have some sort of personal agenda against the man, I really dont and I greatly admire he's drive, passion and desire to win but IMO he is very immature as a manager and never really served an appropriate apprentiship in management.

This is true but you have to start somewhere, look at Anto, he didn't do a particularly great job with Clare (it was a similar position to Davy at waterford in so far as they were a great team coming to an end) but he learned at lot from it and look at him now.

premierstone · 07-10-2011 03:35PM

Galtee wrote: »

Well the two parts in bold above would seem contradictory to me. Clare got to 2 munster finals under the management of Gaynor and they were hammered off the field in both. If anything it was loughnane coming in that bolstered that team. Not taking from Len Gaynor but to say he laid the groundwork is nonsense.

You quite clearly dont understand the term ''laid the groundwork'' so, seriously what exactly do you think that term means??

And exactly how many munster finals had Clare been to in the years previous to Gaynor??

premierstone · 07-10-2011 03:41PM

Galtee wrote: »

This is true but you have to start somewhere, look at Anto, he didn't do a particularly great job with Clare (it was a similar position to Davy at waterford in so far as they were a great team coming to an end) but he learned at lot from it and look at him now.

I know you have to start somewhere what I am saying is the particular type of player that Clare have breaking through and the age profile of their panel over the next 2-3 years, a Davy type manager is not what is needed.

And Dalo's reign in Clare was far far more impressive than he is given credit for considering the players he had at he's disposal, the Clare public (not all I appreciate) harshly imo expected a return to the 90's and it was never on, Dublin county board with their bottomless pockets could have had any manager they wanted (within reason) and they were savy enough to spot that Daly had actually done a very good job keeping Clare competitive.

Galtee · 07-10-2011 03:43PM

premierstone wrote: »

You quite clearly dont understand the term ''laid the groundwork'' so, seriously what exactly do you think that term means??

And exactly how many munster finals had Clare been to in the years previous to Gaynor??

Well, the term "laid the goundwork" in this context would mean that he set it up for loughnane and that simply is not the case as loughnane was a selector on the team when gaynor was there so to say that gaynor "laid the groundwork" is nonsense as they both laid the groundwork together. Is that clear enough for you? And they had been to 12 munster finals prior to those 2. They had been to 19 or 20 munster finals before that.

Galtee · 07-10-2011 03:51PM

premierstone wrote: »

I know you have to start somewhere what I am saying is the particular type of player that Clare have breaking through and the age profile of their panel over the next 2-3 years, a Davy type manager is not what is needed.

And Dalo's reign in Clare was far far more impressive than he is given credit for considering the players he had at he's disposal, the Clare public (not all I appreciate) harshly imo expected a return to the 90's and it was never on, Dublin county board with their bottomless pockets could have had any manager they wanted (within reason) and they were savy enough to spot that Daly had actually done a very good job keeping Clare competitive.

Competitive with what? The standard of hurling over the last 5 years in general has been absolutely woeful. Now to use your term "laid the groundwork" if ever there was an example of it, it was daly at clare. It was a massive learning experience for him and it's stood to him well and he's donig a great job at Dublin and long may it last and that's the difference between ordinary managers and brilliant managers, brilliant managers learn and move on and apply what they learned to their trade at the next club (if they get the chance) and Davy has gotten the chance and if he makes a b*ll*x of the clare role THEN and only THEN would you be in a position to say that he could ruin the next team etc.

premierstone · 07-10-2011 04:09PM

Galtee wrote: »

Competitive with what? The standard of hurling over the last 5 years in general has been absolutely woeful. Now to use your term "laid the groundwork" if ever there was an example of it, it was daly at clare. It was a massive learning experience for him and it's stood to him well and he's donig a great job at Dublin and long may it last and that's the difference between ordinary managers and brilliant managers, brilliant managers learn and move on and apply what they learned to their trade at the next club (if they get the chance) and Davy has gotten the chance and if he makes a b*ll*x of the clare role THEN and only THEN would you be in a position to say that he could ruin the next team etc.

Competitive with what, seriously?? He was in charge for 2004, 2005 and 2006.

2004 - Beaten by KK the reiging AI champions in a replay.
2005 - Beaten by Cork who were on route to a two in a row by a point having outhurled them for the majority of the game.
2006 - Again beaten by KK who went on to win the AI.

So he got Clare to Croke park every year with an ageing and limited squad and was only defeated by Cork and KK, the two completely dominant forces at the time, in knockout games.

Dalo had also achieved more at club level as a manger than Davy by winning club titles with both clarecastle and Kilmoyley. Davy won zero with both sixmilebridge and Nenagh Eire og.

Your last bit seems to suggest that Clare should be happy to let Davy use the job as a stepping stone and a learning curve for himself well tbh I think the hurlers that are coming through (potentially! see minor team of '97) they deserve better than that.

If you think I am just some Tipp fan having a go at Davy for the sake of it or trying to provoke an arguement just ask the Waterford boys what they think of Davy!

Mountainlad · 07-10-2011 04:45PM

ballykev wrote: »

Justin McCarthy had established Waterford as the fourth best team in the country

Probably the greatest indictment of Fitzgerald’s term at the helm was his selection of Jerome Maher at full-back in the Munster final of 2011 against a Tipperary forward line that had scored seven goals in the previous two games. It was an act of the greatest folly on the part of the manager to play a rookie full-back against a team that was obviously going to go for the jugular from the off. Thus to a certain extent the mauling that Waterford received was partially the fault of the manager. Obviously considering the circumstances and the ravenous way in which Tipperary chased the game that day there were always only going to be one winner, however it is fair to say that Fitzgerald contributed to the easiness of Tipperary’s defeat by his kamikaze selection methods. To play such a player in such a scenario was symptomatic of another problem that blighted Fitzgerald’s managerial reign; his crass treatment of the senior members of the squad. This was especially clear where Dan Shanahan was concerned.

Yet it often seemed to be the case that Shanahan was deemed surplus to requirements. One example of this was in the All-Ireland semi-final against Tipperary in 2010 when Brian O’Halloran, a teenager was the preferred choice at full-forward. That Paul Curran got the better of the duel and O’Halloran was withdrawn after 21 minutes was no surprise. The likelihood that a debutant would get the better of Curran on such a big occasion was quite slim; undoubtedly Curran wouldn’t have got the better of Shanahan so easily. That Shanahan wasn’t introduced until late in the day was nothing short of insulting. The fact that O’Halloran hasn’t featured since raises even more questions about Fitzgerald’s selection methods. The spin put on it was that the team needed fresh blood; however youth can be injected into the team without damaging the team as a whole and due to his poor treatment of Shanahan, Fitzgerald’s tactics were detrimental to the team, something that one suspects other senior players believe, but which they have kept their counsel on at present.

Well written article, very thorough, and agree with a lot of it. Just a few things I'd like to say about somethings you mentioned.

Surely, we were the third best team? (Not that important but my bias wouldn't let me ignore it )

I think, you're actually not being hard enough on him for the Munster Final. Maher started on Corbett. Brick was put full back. There was no evidence to suggest that Brick could play this position effectively, other than about 20 minutes on a rookie (albeit a talented rookie) aged 19. The main reason behind it seemed that in the two previous encounters with Tipp, Brick had been run ragged by Noel McGrath, and rather than try and come up with a plan to negate this Tipp tactic, the tactic seemed to be 'throw someone else in there, and put him further back so he can't be moved'. Unfortunately, he didn't plan on Brick being dragged into the corner, and Noel Connors being dragged into full back, a position he's unfortunately too small for. Darragh Fives was playing well all year in the corner, and then was thrown out to the wing for the Munster Final (a tough adjusment for such a big game). It was clear in all the games previous and after that he was much more comfortable at corner back. Kevin Moran played his first inter-county game at centre back...huge mistake. He found it very difficult to get into the game. Our puckouts were landing on Molumphy. Richie Foley clearly wasn't fit enough. And then, the final insult, Eoin McGrath started on Pauric Maher. He showed a complete disbelief in the team.

On O'Halloran, he was doing his leaving cert, and so missed the league unfortunately. He was brought on in the Munster Final replay and scored a point. Now the worst thing about starting him, was the tactics around it. There was no plan to support him, which seemed to be a constant thing with Davy...there was only ever a very simple plan at best and no backup. Like honestly, a two man full forward line consisting of O'Halloran and Mullane. Like honestly, who was going to win the ball? I have no doubt O Halloran would have been an integral part, though, of this years team but for persistent hamstring trouble which kept him out from February til August when he returned for his club.

Galtee · 07-10-2011 04:48PM

premierstone wrote: »

Competitive with what, seriously?? He was in charge for 2004, 2005 and 2006.

2004 - Beaten by KK the reiging AI champions in a replay.
2005 - Beaten by Cork who were on route to a two in a row by a point having outhurled them for the majority of the game.
2006 - Again beaten by KK who went on to win the AI.

Oh my god, read the line after it, I said the standard of hurling was poor throughout so there wasn't much to be competitive with and getting to croke park isn't as much of an achievement with the backdoor system and to be fair loughnane laid the groundwork for him. :rolleyes:

premierstone wrote: »

So he got Clare to Croke park every year with an ageing and limited squad and was only defeated by Cork and KK, the two completely dominant forces at the time, in knockout games.

In the above paragraph change Clare with Waterford and Cork with tipperary and then tell me what your problem is with Davy. Based on this it looks as if there are personal differences at play here.

premierstone wrote: »

Your last bit seems to suggest that Clare should be happy to let Davy use the job as a stepping stone and a learning curve for himself well tbh I think the hurlers that are coming through (potentially! see minor team of '97) they deserve better than that.

This is ridiculous, no manager can guarantee success so each county is taking a chance when they appoint a new manager. Granted there are credentials that managers can bring but it still doesn't take from the fact that they must prove themselves in their current role as past glory is soon forgotten.

premierstone wrote: »

If you think I am just some Tipp fan having a go at Davy for the sake of it or trying to provoke an arguement just ask the Waterford boys what they think of Davy!

Huh? I never said you were here to provoke an argument. Also, to address the end of the above quote; what do I care what waterford people think of him? How is that going to change the task in hand which is to manage Clare???

Mountainlad · 07-10-2011 04:51PM

kstand wrote: »

Have to be happy with the draw last night, both codes.
I knows its a long way off but I think we'll beat Waterford in the hurling. Waterford I feel have punched above their weight for the last few years. Its glaringly obvious when you think that there is no young lad coming through for them thats a better wing back than 37 year old Tony Browne. Tony Browne is a legend, but at 37 he's well passed his sell-by date.

Also heards that the rumour that Davy wanted 6 years and input into the minor and under 21 teams was not true at all. Dont know where it originated.

We have great talent coming to the fore, the under 12s from 09 are now coming into their prime plus we'll get a few off the last 2 Minor teams. We also have a core of class inter-county hurlers like Paddy Vaughan and so on to bring the boys along. The Munster semi-final next year will be the making or breaking of that team.

Yeah I think ye should have serious ambitions for the u15s this year!

On a serious note, it's a long way off. Nobody can possibly make a judgement on the impact Davy will have on Clare or the new Waterford manager on Waterford.

What I will say though is there actually are wingbacks capable of stepping up to the mark, but Davy couldn't see this (another indigtment of him.) Also, Tony was very much so worthy of his all-star nomination. Who should have been in ahead of him? To me he was the only back to come away from the Munster Final with credit. He had Joe Canning in his pocket (unlike when Canning met Clare), and while he wasn't outstanding by any means against Kilkenny, he wasn't bad.

premierstone · 07-10-2011 05:05PM

Galtee wrote: »

Oh my god, read the line after it, I said the standard of hurling was poor throughout so there wasn't much to be competitive with and getting to croke park isn't as much of an achievement with the backdoor system and to be fair loughnane laid the groundwork for him. :rolleyes:

How was the standard of hurling poor in the mid noughties?? It was far stronger than it was in the mid 90's, and Daly got that Clare team to Croke park every year something Tipp were unable to do and they had player for plyer a stronger team. And you think Loughnane laid the grounwork in 97 for 2004

In the above paragraph change Clare with Waterford and Cork with tipperary and then tell me what your problem is with Davy. Based on this it looks as if there are personal differences at play here.

The nature of the defeats as I outlined were very very different, Clare were far closer to Cork and KK.

This is ridiculous, no manager can guarantee success so each county is taking a chance when they appoint a new manager. Granted there are credentials that managers can bring but it still doesn't take from the fact that they must prove themselves in their current role as past glory is soon forgotten.

Of course no manager can guarantee sucess but previous success and good management would be a start, as for past glories, exactly he doesnt have any.

Huh? I never said you were here to provoke an argument. Also, to address the end of the above quote; what do I care what waterford people think of him? How is that going to change the task in hand which is to manage Clare???

You dont think he's period in Waterford will have any effect on he's ability to manage Clare? I have repeatedly stated why I feel he is wrong for the Clare job, I never sadi he wouldnt be right for another county but he is imo the wrong 'type' of manager for Clare at this moment in time.

.

eroo · 07-10-2011 05:13PM

I personally am 50/50 on Davy's appointment.

He brings a professional set up to an inter county side, but I don't agree with the fire and brimstone stuff. It doesn't work anymore. Only a very small % of players respond to this type of psychological motivation. Look at Declan Kidney, he instills team spirit, personal confidence, belief in the jersey and in each other. But key to his philosophy is that they enjoy playing. This needs to be brought in in Clare. I believe Liam Sheedy did something along those lines.

Tony Griffin highlighted in his book that he couldn't take the fire and brimstone 'hate them' approach anymore. A squad needs to be happy, and playing for each other. I can't see Davy doing this. But I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.

premierstone · 07-10-2011 05:26PM

eroo wrote: »

I personally am 50/50 on Davy's appointment.

He brings a professional set up to an inter county side, but I don't agree with the fire and brimstone stuff. It doesn't work anymore. Only a very small % of players respond to this type of psychological motivation. Look at Declan Kidney, he instills team spirit, personal confidence, belief in the jersey and in each other. But key to his philosophy is that they enjoy playing. This needs to be brought in in Clare. I believe Liam Sheedy did something along those lines.

Tony Griffin highlighted in his book that he couldn't take the fire and brimstone 'hate them' approach anymore. A squad needs to be happy, and playing for each other. I can't see Davy doing this. But I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.

Absolutely agree 100% with this and all my ramblings in the last two pages can basically be sumarised by this, and I also feel he always trys to shift the blame to someone else rather than admitting mistakes were made.

But like you said he may very well do the trick with Clare and be a roaring success(literally)

Thats the beauty of Hurling nobody can predict the future with any certainty all we can do is give our opinions based on the evidence available.

Galtee · 07-10-2011 05:50PM

premierstone wrote: »

How was the standard of hurling poor in the mid noughties?? It was far stronger than it was in the mid 90's, and Daly got that Clare team to Croke park every year something Tipp were unable to do and they had player for plyer a stronger team. And you think Loughnane laid the grounwork in 97 for 2004

I don't know of anyone with the exception of yourself who would say that hurling in the nineties was of poorer standard than in the noughties(although I'm sure there'll be a barrage now)

premierstone wrote: »

The nature of the defeats as I outlined were very very different, Clare were far closer to Cork and KK

And yet the massive defeat of Gaynors side does? You seem to be shifting goalposts quite a lot to suit your argument.

premierstone wrote: »

Of course no manager can guarantee sucess but previous success and good management would be a start, as for past glories, exactly he doesnt have any.

Every manager has to start somewhere even the greats. :rolleyes:

premierstone wrote: »

You dont think he's period in Waterford will have any effect on he's ability to manage Clare? I have repeatedly stated why I feel he is wrong for the Clare job, I never sadi he wouldnt be right for another county but he is imo the wrong 'type' of manager for Clare at this moment in time.

I really don't care what waterford people think of him as it has no bearing on how he'll do at Clare. I think he'll do well. He has 2 all ireland medals, 3 munster medals and 4 allstars and that's what young players look up to. So ironically, if he can get himself a goalkeeper as they really need one then I think he has a good chance of doing well there. Only time will tell, but to write him off based on what waterford people think of him is brainless.

bagaspuds · 07-10-2011 08:00PM

kstand wrote: »

.... I have visions of Don Corleone kissing rings...

So the next day, my father went to see him; only this time with Luca Brasi. An' within an hour, he signed a release, for a certified check for $1000. [Kay: "How'd he do that?"] My father made him an offer he couldn't refuse. [Kay: "What was that?"] Luca Brasi held a gun to his head and my father assured him that either his brains, or his signature, would be on the contract. That's a true story. That's my family, Kay, it's not me."

premierstone · 07-10-2011 08:41PM

Galtee wrote: »

I don't know of anyone with the exception of yourself who would say that hurling in the nineties was of poorer standard than in the noughties(although I'm sure there'll be a barrage now)

Not something I had ever given great thought to but I would say both Cork and KK in the noughties were far superior to the majority of teams that won AI's in the 90's, in the 90.'s it was the first and only time in the history of the game all of the big three were in the doldrums.
And yet the massive defeat of Gaynors side does? You seem to be shifting goalposts quite a lot to suit your argument.

No im not moving anything you ar ecomparing apples and oranges tbh, just have a look at Clare before Gaynor and when he left its very simple really.
Every manager has to start somewhere even the greats. :rolleyes:

Thats my point he is not starting out he has been in management for nearly 15 years and has two fitzgibbons to show for it.

I really don't care what waterford people think of him as it has no bearing on how he'll do at Clare. I think he'll do well. He has 2 all ireland medals, 3 munster medals and 4 allstars and that's what young players look up to. So ironically, if he can get himself a goalkeeper as they really need one then I think he has a good chance of doing well there. Only time will tell, but to write him off based on what waterford people think of him is brainless.

What he achieved as a player has fcuk all to do with how he is as a manager and the Clare hurlers are not 10 years of age, dont think hes 4 allstars will have much weight when there in the woods in cratloe sparrin with Bernard Dunne :rolleyes:

.

flahavaj · 08-10-2011 03:48PM

Davy Fitz is an ideal manager for Clare really, he'll make them hard to beat and will make them competitive against teams outside KK/Tipp. He could easily have them regulalrly playing in all Ireland quarter finals which is a realistic aim for Clare hurling at the moment. He has shown as well that he's happy enough to give young players a chance, and we knoe Clare have lots of good young lads coming through. he is a more ideal fit for Clare than Waterford in many ways and thats before you even factor in his obvious passion for the county.

Clareman · 09-10-2011 07:54PM

Crusheen and the Bridge in the Senior final, whether I think the next county manger should be booked for getting involved with a player that should be up for selection next year is not a debate for online.

Ruan beat Corofin in the intermediate, they'll be playing Éire Óg in the final.

kstand · 09-10-2011 10:18PM

Clareman wrote: »

Crusheen and the Bridge in the Senior final, whether I think the next county manger should be booked for getting involved with a player that should be up for selection next year is not a debate for online.

Ruan beat Corofin in the intermediate, they'll be playing Éire Óg in the final.

Two good finals to look forward to, the senior in particular. Definately the two best teams meeting in it, many felt that they'd have to meet at some point. Crusheen are now a very polished outfit, especially that defence. Their third county final in 5 years, a lot of the Bridge lads appearing in their first. Will we see the same trend as the last 2 years, with the champions beaten in the final or will we see Crusheen become the first team since the great Josephs side to retain their title. Hope the weather holds, should be a cracker.

Galtee · 10-10-2011 09:28AM

premierstone wrote: »

Not something I had ever given great thought to but I would say both Cork and KK in the noughties were far superior to the majority of teams that won AI's in the 90's, in the 90.'s it was the first and only time in the history of the game all of the big three were in the doldrums.

Firstly, what's the deal with the wrapping your replies inside the post you're quoting? Are you deliberately trying to make it awkward for people to reply? Because you don't like being challenged? Please enlighten me. And as for the nineties, hurling was a much better spectacle because there were a lot more teams in contention, and I fail to see how having 3 teams dominate the noughties equates to strong hurling, to me it reinforces the theory that the standard of hurling in the rest of the counties was terrible.

premierstone wrote: »

No im not moving anything you ar ecomparing apples and oranges tbh, just have a look at Clare before Gaynor and when he left its very simple really.

I'm sorry, this makes no sense, it's quite clearly a half comment thrown in to divert from substantiating an actual answer. When does a team stop being the fruits of a previous managers labour? Clare before and after gaynor were much the same, Ger Loughnane did a lot of the work alongside Gaynor and then when he took over he put them through a rigerous "fire and brimstone" training regime which helped them achieve the fitness levels and intensity they needed to succeed.

premierstone wrote: »

Thats my point he is not starting out he has been in management for nearly 15 years and has two fitzgibbons to show for it.

I don't think you can compare club management and intercounty management. How do you like them apples and oranges?

premierstone wrote: »

What he achieved as a player has fcuk all to do with how he is as a manager and the Clare hurlers are not 10 years of age, dont think hes 4 allstars will have much weight when there in the woods in cratloe sparrin with Bernard Dunne

To an extent this may be true in so far as it has fcukall to do with his technique as a manager but a large part of management is about gaining the respect of your players and regardless of whether or not players are 10 or 110 there needs to be respect there to get the best from them, it's simple really. Also, by the same token managing the Waterford team has fcukall bearing on how he's going to manage the clare team.

Mountainlad · 10-10-2011 11:51AM

I'd have to agree about the standard of hurling in the noughties excceding that of the nineties. It's not about how many teams were able to win it, it's about how good they were. I wouldn't deny Clare and Offaly produced two very good teams, but this decade has been dominated by one of the best teams of all time, which Clare and Offaly didn't have to contend with. Cork also have had an excellent team. Both teams were so good that Waterford couldn't win an all-ireland. Tipp have produced an excellent young team now. I definetly think the standard has improved, even think about what Declan Ryan said that game has become much faster even since his time, which is the same era you're talking about.

Also I'd have to say, I don't think there will be a dramatic change in approach from Davy to managing any team.

Galtee · 10-10-2011 12:31PM

To me it's competition that directs the standard of hurling in any given era. Fundamentally, there are only so many skills that can be learned in hurling. After that it's how you apply those skills in big matches that coupled with how your unit functions as a team and always a little luck thrown in for good measure is what makes the difference. If teams are coming out getting beaten comfortably week in week out then I would find it difficult to measure the standard of hurling in that case. The only two teams in the noughties that showed a high standard and who were competitive with one and other in my opinion were Cork and Kilkenny, other than that the rest were by and large non competitive unless they caught one of the above two on the hop which in my honest opinion hardly lends itself to a high standard.

eroo · 10-10-2011 03:30PM

Please, stop harping on about the 90's v 00's.. it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or any other topics being discussed in here. I'd ask the mods to back me up here.

Galtee · 10-10-2011 03:58PM

eroo wrote: »

Please, stop harping on about the 90's v 00's.. it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or any other topics being discussed in here. I'd ask the mods to back me up here.

I'm good with that.

Clare GAA discussion thread

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