Arrested for murder after killing burglar.. England.

[Deleted User] · 2011-09-18 16:35:25

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/18/suspected-burglar-stabbed-death-stockport Shouldn't he arrested for manslaughter? It was hardly premeditated.. And then he should be acquitted for it and given a medal.

#62 18-09-2011 10:52PM

ringadingding

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Wasn't there a very similar case in UK just a few weeks back?
2/3 burglars entered the house, one was killed.

They arrested the home owner, but later dropped all charges, I think its a technicality they have to do in aggravated deaths.

We wont know for a day or two anyway....

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#63 18-09-2011 10:54PM

Liam Byrne

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Kadongy wrote: »

You quoted me out of context and ignored most of my post.

The bloodlust I was referring to was in some of the responses on this thread. I said the guy who did it would probably have been horrified.

I wasn't quoting you out of context - I was pointing out that the word "bloodlust" is inappropriate.

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#64 18-09-2011 10:56PM

mikemac

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Biggins wrote: »

He might be charged with second degree murder if he had the killing weapon(s?) in his home and as such might have planned for such an eventuality as what happened.

Like what though?

I've a hurley, a baseball bat from when I played softball, a poker and a knife to hand.
All are killing weapons but all are also ordinary everyday items you find in many houses

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#65 18-09-2011 11:05PM

westendgirlie

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I really don't know what I'd do if someone broke in. If I was on my own at the time I think I'd freeze. I can imagine myself trying to scream but no sound coming out.
If the kids were here my first instinct would be to ensure their safety.

One thing I do know is a burglar in my home would affect my state of mind, in one way or another. If I were to injure or kill the burglar, could it not be said that I did so when not of sound mind? Even if I stabbed him in the back as he was moving away from me?

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#66 18-09-2011 11:08PM

joseph brand

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Floral tributes to the dead man have been laid near the scene.

From here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14963811

Poor guy accidentally broke in, with a mate. Accidentally had a laptop under his arm. Could happen to anyone.

Pádraig Nally is my hero. Seriously, he is.

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#67 19-09-2011 12:52AM

opinion guy

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bluewolf wrote: »

problem with going crazy to defend your family is that you're then in jail next time someone breaks in to attack them

Thats one problem.

What always amazes me in these threads is the number of people who are so supremely confident they could defeat an intruder in combat. I don't believe this would happen in many cases. Hard to be there for your family if you are killed whilst tackling an intruder.

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#68 19-09-2011 12:53AM

mikemac

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Nobody knows how they would react

I could do the AH routine and list all the things I'd do and beating I'd give
But I could well freeze and so could anyone

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#69 19-09-2011 12:54AM

Manic Moran

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As far as I know, it's just standard procedure. They make an arrest so that statements can be compiled and the whole thing investigated properly in the usual way.

I'll bet ye those gavvers are telling this mush, " Bloody well done, mate! Ye got the b@stard! "

Now it'll be up to the DPP to decide whether to actually prosecute the case. If so, it'll likely lead to a nicely staged show trial which will just allow the court to cement a legal precedent. That being that scum had better learn to accept what's coming to them when they try doing a Home Invasion

Still seems a little excessive to arrest him without reasonable suspiscion that a crime has been committed. It's not as if they don't know where the guy lives if they want to ask additional questions.

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#70 19-09-2011 12:57AM

mikemac

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Manic Moran wrote: »

Still seems a little excessive to arrest him without reasonable suspiscion that a crime has been committed.

Since you are in the USA, can I ask what it's like over there?

I'd think with so much gun ownership and people being independent you have far less chance for being prosecuted for killing an intruder. And definitely in a State like Texas

But I'm only going on generalizations about America here

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#71 19-09-2011 12:59AM

pragmatic1

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Any man comes into my house trying to do me or my family harm is dead. I'd do the time with a smile.

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#72 19-09-2011 01:07AM

Bullseye1

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I really don't see why they would have to formally arrest the householder. For sure bring him in for questioning.

The law makes it too easy for burglars. They have too much protection and there is too much burden of proof on the householder in setting out whether their response was proportionate. In this case there was two assailants who is to say what would have happened if they had over powered the householder. The report also states that his family just returned as the robbery was taking place.

At first glance it appears the man was well within his rights.

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#73 19-09-2011 01:07AM

EGAR

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hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Killing another human being is not ok. Vigilantism is not ok.

The only time it's ever acceptable is if you're directly saving someone else's life by doing so. I don't mean "he MIGHT have pulled a knife and stabbed me", I mean "I know he had a knife and he was going to use it."

Material possessions are not worth a human life.

It must be very cold up there on your high horse and I somewhat hope for the sake of the people you may be living with that one of them has more balls than you do.

If you break into my house then you will have to deal with me and I am not nice.

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#74 19-09-2011 01:16AM

mackg

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evercloserunion wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74469425&postcount=4
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74469457&postcount=6
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74469529&postcount=7
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74470547&postcount=20
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74470597&postcount=22
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74470619&postcount=24
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74470657&postcount=27
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74470881&postcount=35
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74471475&postcount=39

To be fair, a lot of people here aren't espousing that line, but at the same time most people don't seem to be aware of the concept of proportionality.

I think most of those posts are to do with you being able to defend your home and any harm an intruder comes to not resting on your head, not about retribution and anyone's macho credentials. The one about burglars being put to death was after I posted.

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#75 19-09-2011 01:34AM

4leto

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Wasn't the law changed in Britain last year, you are allowed use reasonable force when before you weren't.

So although this does sound like reasonable force to me, stabbing the cutn, if he stabbed him with a frenzy he may go down.

Not the best of links.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDMQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Ftop-stories%2F2011%2F09%2F19%2Fgovernment-to-clarify-existing-burglary-law-115875-23430544%2F&ei=AI12TqTZJ5GChQfg_emkDA&usg=AFQjCNHCZpefu0RXQOzfxR4-88mcY-Zmfg

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#76 19-09-2011 01:48AM

Manic Moran

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mikemac wrote: »

Since you are in the USA, can I ask what it's like over there?

I'd think with so much gun ownership and people being independent you have far less chance for being prosecuted for killing an intruder. And definitely in a State like Texas

Fifty States, fifty different laws.

Where I am, one must be in fear for your life in order for a homicide to be justifiable.

That said, it is written into the law that if the entry was forced, there is an automatic presumption that the householder was in fear for his life, and it is up to the prosecution to prove that the householder had no reason to so be.

I think that's a fairly reasonable set of affairs.

California Penal Code 198.5

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

NTM

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#77 19-09-2011 02:03AM

blackdog2

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I give not a bollocks. Once somebody has demonstrably forced his/her way into a residence, all bets should be off. Proportionality cannot be in play, as it is impossible to prove. If people are allowed to defend themselves, burglaries will become less common.

It also amazes me when drug dealing, organized crime and petty theft are so common, yet every village or settlement upwards has its own parking violation team

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#78 19-09-2011 02:33AM

sellerbarry

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They could happily take my possessions. It's my dog who would have a problem with it.:D

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#79 19-09-2011 02:45AM

Mickey H

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As John Wayne said: " Shoot first, ask questions later."

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#80 19-09-2011 02:46AM

Ditch

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Manic Moran wrote: »

Still seems a little excessive to arrest him without reasonable suspiscion that a crime has been committed. It's not as if they don't know where the guy lives if they want to ask additional questions.

Just keeping everything proper

Remit of the Police is, after all, to apprehend and present the 'suspect', along with all the information they can gather about the incident, to a judge and jury.

Consider what " Arrest ", in this context, actually means

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#81 19-09-2011 03:18AM

Dohnny Jepp

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Gummy Panda wrote: »

Maybe he was upstairs practicing his stabbing and they disturbed him.

I hate when people interupt my my stabbing practice!

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#82 19-09-2011 03:24AM

Victor

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So, a bunch of lads meet in a pub. One of them says "Come back to mine, I've a load of beer and todays match recorded on the Sky box." They get to the house and while talking, it turns out one is a Chelsea fan and the other Man Utd (Man Utd 3 0 Chelsea). A knife is produced by the householder, who proceeds to stab the rival fan.

Now, read it again - "A suspected intruder ..."

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#83 19-09-2011 03:27AM

saverboy

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found this so terrible，we must be more careful in the near future...

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#84 19-09-2011 05:50AM

Manic Moran

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Ditch wrote: »

Just keeping everything proper Remit of the Police is, after all, to apprehend and present the 'suspect', along with all the information they can gather about the incident, to a judge and jury.

Consider what " Arrest ", in this context, actually means

Yes, it means to deprive a person of his liberty which, unless something has changed since I studied civics, is something which is not supposed to happen unless that person had done something to warrant arrest.

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#85 19-09-2011 07:54AM

Simon Adebisi

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Break into a house = lose all right to life.

**** em, burglars are filth.

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#86 19-09-2011 08:02AM

Biggins

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Vincent Cooke, was held after confronting burglar Raymond Jacob when he threatened him and tried to force his way into his £350,000 house in Bramhall, Stockport, with an accomplice. Mr Cooke's wife and son were due home any minute, so he fought desperately to keep the men out and in the end Jacob was stabbed with his own knife, falling to the ground fatally injured.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038785/Bramhall-father-arrested-stabbing-death-burglar-broke-home.html

If the reported details of this morning Daily Mail are right - I cannot blame the home owner one bit.
I honestly would have done the same thing.

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#87 19-09-2011 08:05AM

galwayrush

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Biggins wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038785/Bramhall-father-arrested-stabbing-death-burglar-broke-home.html

If the reported details of this morning Daily Mail are right - I cannot blame the home owner one bit.
I honestly would have done the same thing.

So, scumbag brings own knife with him while on burglary mission,( what was the knife for?) he dies by own knife.... beautiful.:cool:

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#88 19-09-2011 08:10AM

Uriel.

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Biggins wrote: »

Vincent Cooke, was held after confronting burglar Raymond Jacob when he threatened him and tried to force his way into his £350,000 house in Bramhall, Stockport, with an accomplice. Mr Cooke's wife and son were due home any minute, so he fought desperately to keep the men out and in the end Jacob was stabbed with his own knife, falling to the ground fatally injured.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038785/Bramhall-father-arrested-stabbing-death-burglar-broke-home.html

If the reported details of this morning Daily Mail are right - I cannot blame the home owner one bit.
I honestly would have done the same thing.

If true, overall great result and a happy ending.

Zero sympathy for the burglar... It's just a pity the second guy didn't suffer the same faith.

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#89 19-09-2011 08:13AM

Biggins

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The police I think followed the correct procedure in arresting Vincent Cooke, done in order to question him under the right legal process - but I can see him easily being (rightly to me) let go soon.
If the details are true and near accurate, he will (and should!) be let off with a case of self-defense.
If I sat on a jury with him up before me, I would find it extremely hard to convict him of the death of an intruder, under the supposed circumstances.

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#90 19-09-2011 08:16AM

Davidth88

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Am I the only person actually disgusted by people laying flowers outside the house.

The man was a BURGLAR for gods sake , of course grieve but don't do it outside the house he was trying to rob.

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#91 19-09-2011 08:41AM

meoklmrk91

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It's just me and my mam who's in her 50's in the house, I'm a 20 year old girl btw, thankfully my lovely boxer is very protective over us and the house but it came to it I have a weapon by the bed which I would not hesitate to use, burglars are scum, they might not just be breaking in to take your stuff. I might not be able to over power them but I sure as he'll would give them a good fight, I will be no scumbags victim and nobody will hurt my mother.

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