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Can I put a Canoe into rivers in Ireland without permission?

  • 01-09-2011 10:24PM
    #1
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭


    If not, where does one get permission, does one need a licence or....?


Comments

  • #2
    123ame
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭123ame


    you dont need permission


  • #3
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    We had a thread on that.
    http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70263959#post70263959

    I hope the linky works as I am doing this on a very small smart phone. :-)

    Or search for the thread on laws kayaking. (about five pages back)


  • #4
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    Just read your rights. While we don't have the same problems as England and Wales, you can't just enter private property.

    Common sense should prevail. Be curtious and leave the environment as you found it. i.e. No rubbish and close the gate behind you. Oh and switch off the light if your the last one there.


  • #5
    wet-paint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭wet-paint


    Give it a ash with a power hose beforehand if you're coming from somewhere that's infested with Zebra Mussels.


  • #6
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    Zebra mussels???


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  • #7
    wet-paint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭wet-paint


    Zebra mussels.


  • #8
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    Do we have them here (Ireland)?


  • #9
    wet-paint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭wet-paint


    Yep, the river and Lough Corrib are dosed with them. Even better would be to clean the boats with a dilute bleach solution. It's not as much of an issue for WW boats, but for placid water craft, it's prudent to clean them, as the mussels are a real pest.


  • #10
    thetonynator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭thetonynator


    wet-paint wrote: »
    Yep, the river and Lough Corrib are dosed with them. Even better would be to clean the boats with a dilute bleach solution. It's not as much of an issue for WW boats, but for placid water craft, it's prudent to clean them, as the mussels are a real pest.

    Especially if you're on some of the western lakes which are so far free of them I've heard.


  • #11
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Some fishing rivers are off limits during certain times of the year afaik, one example is the Bundorragha in Mayo. I'm not sure how within their rights they are to enforce that though and I'm not sure how common it is for restrictions like that to be put on a river though.


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  • #12
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Some riverside property is owned by The Irish Fisheries Board and they don't like kayakers. If you are on their property without permission its trespassing and you could be fined. They don't own the actual river though, just the land beside it.


  • #13
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    I have seen a number of signs on farm gates or fences saying keep out, liability waivers etc. Thankfully not anywhere I get on to rivers. But I am sure asking nicely would do the job. Is it not like paddlers go running to the same river everyweekend in huge numbers.

    I sea paddle a bit. While your not supposed to use private slipways and pontoons, I have on one occasion had to make an emergency landing on one. Not only did the security not mind but were very helpful. I presume the same on rivers. If you need to exit, then do so. You can check the legal bit later. :-)


  • #14
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    Anyone here got a 'legal' mind?

    Even a law student or such who could post a legal answer to this question?


  • #15
    kanuheist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭kanuheist


    From the ICU website;

    http://www.irishcanoeunion.com/Portals/0/1Docs4Dload/Policy%20Documents/Land%20and%20River%20Ownership.pdf


  • #16
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,871 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    It's illegal to trespass on land. However NOBODY owns the water on a river and NOBODY has the right to restrict you from passage ON that water. These fisheries signs are pointless. Unless you get out of your boat on their land or swim to the bottom and touch the bottom you're not doing anything wrong.

    MugMugs REALLY REALLY REEEEEEEALLY does not like fishermen. :)




    Really!


  • #17
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Generally if you're going to be on someone elses property ask their permission first!


  • #18
    wet-paint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭wet-paint


    MugMugs wrote: »
    It's illegal to trespass on land. However NOBODY owns the water on a river and NOBODY has the right to restrict you from passage ON that water. These fisheries signs are pointless. Unless you get out of your boat on their land or swim to the bottom and touch the bottom you're not doing anything wrong.

    MugMugs REALLY REALLY REEEEEEEALLY does not like fishermen. :)




    Really!

    It's a different story if a riparian landowner owns boths sides of a stretch of river.


  • #19
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    Ah! But if you own both banks do you have a right to prevent use of the water passing through? And if you do, is this not wrong?


  • #20
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,871 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    wet-paint wrote: »
    It's a different story if a riparian landowner owns boths sides of a stretch of river.

    Isn't it a case that you can't own the water so you cant prevent people passing through?


  • #21
    wet-paint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭wet-paint


    It constitutes trespass to enter onto, or in this case, a couple of feet above, an owner's land without their permission.
    Of course you don't own the river, but you own the land on which the water runs, and in which the boater paddles.

    It hasn't been tested in court to my knowledge, but that's how it stands.


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  • #22
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,871 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    wet-paint wrote: »
    It constitutes trespass to enter onto, or in this case, a couple of feet above, an owner's land without their permission.
    QUOTE]

    There's a thead on this on Irish Freestyle

    On my mobile so cant link it, will do later however, There was a clear cut outline in it that re confirms what I've said above. Nobody owns the water therefore you cannot trespass on water.


  • #23
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    MugMugs wrote: »
    wet-paint wrote: »
    It constitutes trespass to enter onto, or in this case, a couple of feet above, an owner's land without their permission.
    QUOTE]

    There's a thead on this on Irish Freestyle

    On my mobile so cant link it, will do later however, There was a clear cut outline in it that re confirms what I've said above. Nobody owns the water therefore you cannot trespass on water.

    Please do link later. This is more just out of curiosity than anything else. At the moment common sense prevals and both land owners and paddlers respect each other enough.


  • #24
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    MugMugs wrote: »

    There's a thead on this on Irish Freestyle

    On my mobile so cant link it, will do later however, There was a clear cut outline in it that re confirms what I've said above. Nobody owns the water therefore you cannot trespass on water.

    It's the same on the coast, people can only own land down to the high tide line as far as I know, but that doesn't mean they can't stop you going through their land to get to it,there's areally nice beach in south mayo no-one can use because the farmer who owns the surrounding land goes ape if he sees anyone on it.

    I seem to remember being told not to get in the water on the wave side of the bridge in Tuam because there was some disagreement with the landowner there. Apparently paddling is not permitted in the river in Newport because of the freshwater mussels there by order of the local wildlife services.


  • #25
    Zuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Zuppy


    To be fair if some state agency posts up that a river is closed due to wildlife issues, I don't have a problem with that. It is rarely permanent. And makes sense.


  • #26
    KenHy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭KenHy


    Given a lot of the laws governing this are the same as the British ones (under common law), This letter from a police force in the UK may be of interest.

    For those not bothered to read it comes to the conclusion that you are free to paddle anything you want and nobody can stop you but you may be liable to break trespassing laws depending on where you access the river.


  • #27
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    KenHy wrote: »
    you are free to paddle anything you want and nobody can stop you but you may be liable to break trespassing laws depending on where you access the river.

    This summarises it perfectly. If you see a no trespassing sign you can still ask the land owner for permission to be on their land, its not trespassing if you have their permission.


  • #28
    Sportsmad_Mick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭Sportsmad_Mick


    kanuheist wrote: »
    From the ICU website;

    http://www.irishcanoeunion.com/Portals/0/1Docs4Dload/Policy%20Documents/Land%20and%20River%20Ownership.pdf

    "reasonable force" can be used against a kayaker- that's a bit daunting! I often go for trip through rivers around me and I've not had any issues- saying that though I know there is a local farmer who is a bit screwy ou and I definately would not go through any of his land

    Usually people are just curious to know what your doing but happy to let you continue as long as you dont mess up anything on their land as was said already


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