Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Burka ban

14950525455138

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Duiske


    From the Irish Times this mornng.
    Cork councillor urges ban on burkas

    LOUISE ROSEINGRAVE

    A CORK councillor has called for a ban on burkas, balaclavas or other any clothing that masks identity, on the grounds of public safety.

    Cllr Joe O’Callaghan (FG) said now was the time to deal with the issue as those affected are a “tiny minority”. His comments were rejected by, among others, Ali Selim, of the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland, who described the proposal as “unnecessary”.

    Mr O’Callaghan proposed a motion to Cork City Council, calling on Minister for Justice Alan Shatter to ban burkas and give gardaí powers to order youths to remove their hoodies.

    “I knew this would cause controversy but I live in a free country and if I have an opinion I will express it. I’m doing it now because I feel now is the time to address this issue, not in five years’ time,” he said. The councillor said burkas, along with balaclavas and hoodies, have become unacceptable in public places for reasons of “public safety and common sense” following recent riots in London.

    He added the burka had no place in modern Irish society.

    “Wearing a burka is an affront to women in this day and age and this view has been endorsed by one of our local Muslim leaders in Cork. I fail to accept that anyone with any cop-on would like to wrap themselves in what looks like a curtain all day,” Mr O’Callaghan said.

    He endorsed the introduction of an Irish law making it obligatory not to cover one’s identity in public.

    Mr Selim said the councillor was placing the burka, which has religious significance, in the same context as the hoodie, which has a criminal context.

    “How many women has he talked to? And if some women choose to dress this way, why is he imposing a different way of clothing upon them?” Mr Selim said. “Ireland is a society with a good understanding of religion. There are lots of traditions shared between Irish society and Muslim communities. We should aim to unite on friendly ground, not aim to cause conflict among members of the same society.”

    The part below caused a bit of a WTF moment when I read it.
    I fail to accept that anyone with any cop-on would like to wrap themselves in what looks like a curtain all day,” Mr O’Callaghan said.

    Its a good job that councillors powers don't extend beyond the borders of their own counties.


  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Brinley Large Ketchup


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    "“I knew this would cause controversy but I live in a free country..."

    ...and I want to make sure it's not so free anymore.

    Good one :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    I fail to accept that anyone with any cop-on would like to wrap themselves in what looks like a curtain all day
    A bit more sympathy and understanding would help Mr O'Callaghan no end!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    I'm religious and support the ban
    By the sounds of it he wants to ban rain jackets too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    I'm religious and support the ban
    He endorsed the introduction of an Irish law making it obligatory not to cover one’s identity in public.

    I would consider covering my face in public to be a fundamental right.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭threeleggedhors


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    I would consider covering my face in public to be a fundamental right.

    Are you mad ?. Would you feel safe working in a petrol station and in walks a guy wearing a motorbike helmut ?


  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Brinley Large Ketchup


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    Are you mad ?. Would you feel safe working in a petrol station and in walks a guy wearing a motorbike helmut ?

    I guess he has a right to cover his face in public and you've a right not to serve someone with a covered face on a private premises :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    I'm religious and do not support the ban
    bluewolf wrote: »
    I guess he has a right to cover his face in public and you've a right not to serve someone with a covered face on a private premises :)


    LOL If a woman covered in a full veil came into a shop or somewhere and they are refused to be served, there would be a freak out,and the shop would be targeted as racist or whatever.

    Tell people with hoods up and scarves on to get out of their shops so why should anyone get preferential treatment.


  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Brinley Large Ketchup


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    caseyann wrote: »
    LOL If a woman covered in a full veil came into a shop or somewhere and refused to be served there would be a freak out,and the shop would be targeted as racist or whatever.

    Tell people with hoods up and scarves on to get out of their shops so why should anyone get preferential treatment.

    wha?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    I'm religious and support the ban
    Are you mad ?. Would you feel safe working in a petrol station and in walks a guy wearing a motorbike helmut ?

    As bluewolf said, garages aren't in public.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    I would consider covering my face in public to be a fundamental right.
    Do you consider it a right to be oppressed into wearing a black sack over your head under threat of violence?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    I'm religious and support the ban
    robindch wrote: »
    Do you consider it a right to be oppressed into wearing a black sack over your head under threat of violence?

    Not at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    I'm religious and support the ban
    robindch wrote: »
    Do you consider it a right to be oppressed into wearing a black sack over your head under threat of violence?

    Yeah we should probably ban threatening violence all right...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    I'm religious and do not support the ban
    I think these burkas are an insult to women and should be banned


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Mr Selim said the councillor was placing the burka, which has religious significance...[/qoute]

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the burka cultural rather than religious? I see plenty of Muslim women not wearing burkas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    kylith wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the burka cultural rather than religious? I see plenty of Muslim women not wearing burkas.

    I think it's one of those things that's mainly cultural but where those who observe it can still use a religious quote to support it.

    The support for the burka in the Qur'an is Surah 24:30-31 and Surah 33:58-59.

    Interestingly, the Bible says the same thing (essentially) in 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 and yet most Christians don't observe it (anymore).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    I'm religious and support the ban
    My fairly basic readings of the old school liberals is that they would be against such a ban
    We have discarded the fixed costumes of our forefathers; every one must still dress like other people, but the fashion may change once or twice a year.
    ...
    we are eager for improvement in politics, in education, even in morals, though in this last our idea of improvement chiefly consists in persuading or forcing other people to be as good as ourselves.
    It is not progress that we object to; on the contrary, we flatter ourselves that we are the most progressive people who ever lived. It is individuality that we war against: we should think we had done wonders if we had made ourselves all alike; forgetting that the unlikeness of one person to another is generally the first thing which draws the attention of either to the imperfection of his own type, and the superiority of another, or the possibility, by combining the advantages of both, of producing something better than either.
    l
    John Stuart Mill
    Politics stink—and not just bad politics. All politics stink. Even democracy stinks. Imagine if our clothes were selected by the majority of shoppers, which would be teenage girls. I’d be standing here with my midriff exposed. Imagine deciding what’s for dinner by family secret ballot. I’ve got three kids and three dogs in my family. We’d be having Fruit Loops and rotten meat.
    PJ O'Rourke (not an 18th century liberal)

    A man would be ridiculous who should appear in public with a suit of clothes quite different from those which are commonly worn,
    Adam Smith the theory of moral sentiments seems to suggest most decisions should be ruled by the invisible hand of social pressure rather than laws.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    yet most Christians don't observe it (anymore).
    Women are pretty much required to do this in the orthodox churches (you'll probably be told off/refused entry if you're a women with hair showing). While Old Believer women:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Believers

    are still supposed to wear a scarf covering their hair all the time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 279 ✭✭thomur


    I'm religious and do not support the ban
    Well in the last week Ive seen one burka in the Mater hospital and one outside Trinity College today. Ive been walking around Dublin for 40 years and its new to me. To be honest I think they may be doing it for a laugh the same way some of us wear leprauchan hats. In general though I think Irish people are too pc, or else afraid of not being pc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    thomur wrote: »
    Well in the last week Ive seen one burka in the Mater hospital and one outside Trinity College today. Ive been walking around Dublin for 40 years and its new to me. To be honest I think they may be doing it for a laugh the same way some of us wear leprauchan hats. In general though I think Irish people are too pc, or else afraid of not being pc.

    Well, I live in the Portobello area, and there is a mosque up the road.

    Can't have a cig outside my own house without hassle from fellas that are obviously of the muslim persuasion, obviously I say, because I see the fullly burkhaed females coming out of the same houses and flats, as these fellas do.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    ^^ What kind of "hassle" are you talking about?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    Apparently two women have been fined in France. Just heard it on the news, not got any details yet.

    EDIT: story from BBC, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15013383

    MrP


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    I'm religious and support the ban
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15013383
    Divorced mother Hind Ahmas, 32, a mother-of-three, was fined 120 euros (£104) by the court.

    Before the hearing she said she was hoping a fine would be imposed, to enable her to challenge it.

    "Without a condemnation I can't move forward. There has to be this sanction with a fine so that I can take this to the European Court of Human Rights. It's imperative that there's a sanction," she said.


    Najate Nait Ali was fined 80 euros.


    They become the first of 91 women stopped by French police to be handed a fine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    I'm religious and support the ban
    Serves them right for being oppressed


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    Serves them right for being oppressed
    I think the situation is more complicated than that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    If someone wants to wear something no matter how ridiculous or what kind of statement it gives off, shouldn't they be allowed to wear it?
    Provided they are adults of course, anyone who dresses their children in these things are scum.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    fontanalis wrote: »
    If someone wants to wear something [...] shouldn't they be allowed to wear it?
    If there's no coercion, then that's fine. The issue here is that there is coercion.
    fontanalis wrote: »
    [...] anyone who dresses their children in these things are scum.
    Would you agree that anyone who forces another person -- I trust you'll grant directly, or indirectly, adult or child -- to wear a burka is out of order?

    If so, then you're probably pro-ban, rather than anti.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    I'm religious and support the ban
    Robin: if you felt people were being coerced into going to Mass, say, would you support a ban on it?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    I saw someone in a full on burka yesterday, covered head to toe. It was kinda weird seeing it, don't think I've seen that in Ireland before tbh.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    I'm non-religious and do not support the ban
    Robin: if you felt people were being coerced into going to Mass, say, would you support a ban on it?

    I think there's a difference between someone coerced to do something which takes what half an hour a week compared to someone being coerced into excluding themselves from interacting with society.

    Neither are right, but they are not comparable.


Advertisement