Download Illegally? You're no better than the looters.

Ray Palmer · 12-08-2011 04:52PM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

The money you buy the CD with goes to pay the people who made the CD, the (Admittedly tiny) overheads, the chick who works behind the desk, blah blah blah. Not all of the money goes towards some asshole in a suit and the musicians, everyone involved in the process has to get paid.

The majority goes to the record company. The shops are owned by the record companies and the distributors are owned by the record companies.

They take the majority of the money and basically run a cartel keeping prices high.

Geekness1234 · 12-08-2011 05:08PM

I used limeware until one day I turned on my computer and it was filled with Chinese symbols.These days I buy music from iTunes.Annoying as people seem to think the amount of music you have is a reason to look down on you,so you get frustrated when you Try to have a meaningful conversation with someone.
Basically,from my experiences if you downloaded music legally,you are in the parlance of the day a sucker.

Bipolar Joe · 12-08-2011 05:16PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The majority goes to the record company. The shops are owned by the record companies and the distributors are owned by the record companies.

They take the majority of the money and basically run a cartel keeping prices high.

Yeah, the majority of it does, but the ones who get paid the least need that money the most.

SoupyNorman · 12-08-2011 05:24PM

Geekness1234 wrote: »

I used limeware until one day I turned on my computer and it was filled with Chinese symbols.

Downloading is too easy, you really have to go out of your way not to do it.

The internet is currently winning, the major production companies seemed to be out on the veranda puffing fat cigars while the P2P and torrent scene gathered pace to the juggernaut it has now become.

My favourite aspect to downloading is the instant access I get to my TV shows. I pay for digital tv, but the shows I want to see are on in the states first in most cases and even if not you have to endure an almost mind-numbing amount of adverts.

The Internet Explorer · 12-08-2011 05:25PM

Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgh.

mikemac · 12-08-2011 05:26PM

Simultaneous worldwide release of films and TV shows would solve a lot of issues for the studios

Wetai · 12-08-2011 05:29PM

I've been using an emulator recently, and because of it, I'm gonna buy the newer version of the console as soon as I have the money.

amacachi · 12-08-2011 05:36PM

mikemac wrote: »

Simultaneous worldwide release of films and TV shows would solve a lot of issues for the studios

Same with video games too.

Oscar the grouch · 12-08-2011 05:40PM

i'm lost now....who downloadig Phil Collins Greatest hits

mp22 · 12-08-2011 05:43PM

Oscar the grouch wrote: »

i'm lost now....who downloadig Phil Collins Greatest hits

248 people on btjunkie now

Laisurg · 12-08-2011 05:43PM

Copper_pipe wrote: »

if you download illegally you are stealing IMO

The vast majority of the time from companies and corporations that are absolutely minted so i couldn't care less tbh.

And even then i would normally only download games that i can no longer buy in the shops and shows that are on in the US the best part of a year before they are here.

Bipolar Joe · 12-08-2011 05:44PM

Again, there are more people that make money from sales of media than just the guys right at the top.

Jagle · 12-08-2011 05:46PM

the biggest problem is these riaa, mpaa and our euro counterparts are just as bad as the pirates, constantly not playing fees, stealing other peoples work

http://torrentfreak.com/apples-itunes-sued-by-artist-for-pirating-music-110812/

here, apple stealing for an artist, they can bitch and moan all they want but im gonna keep downloading because 1. i download things i would never ever see in the cinema/buy i am not a lost sale, i wouldnt of watched it except it was free, if i like something i might buy it if not i delete it, consider it try before you buy

From the Article:

It is not an isolated incident for an artist not to get their cut when money is made from compilation albums. In Canada a group of artists won a class action lawsuit against Warner Music, Sony BMG Music, EMI Music and Universal Music for unauthorized use of their music in compilation albums. Together the labels pirated 300,000 tracks, for which they had to pay the artists $50 million in damages.

see the big heads are scumbags too

hatrickpatrick · 12-08-2011 06:18PM

Let me ask you something. (I'm a musician btw)

If you had a tool which could make an exact, working copy of someone else's car and place it next to their car for you to drive off in - leaving the original car completely untouched - how would that be stealing?

Secondly: No one DIES from piracy. It doesn't involve setting fire to anything or running anyone over in your car.

Liam Byrne · 12-08-2011 06:25PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If you had a tool which could make an exact, working copy of someone else's car and place it next to their car for you to drive off in - leaving the original car completely untouched - how would that be stealing?

It's an interesting one, but the problem with that argument is that the car wouldn't exist.

Think about it.

A car company spends - say - €5,000,000 to create a particular car model.
They then sell ONE for €22,000
And you copy it, as does everyone else

Why would the car company bother creating it and spending the millions (factory, wages, parts, etc) if they would lose €4,978,000 ?

So - in a Terminator-style timeline - you'd have nothing to copy.

EDIT : Actually, they'd lose €5,000,000 because no mug would buy the first one if they knew that everyone else would be getting theirs free.

RichieC · 12-08-2011 06:28PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's an interesting one, but the problem with that argument is that the car wouldn't exist.

Think about it.

A car company spends - say - €5,000,000 to create a particular car model.
They then sell ONE for €22,000
And you copy it, as does everyone else

Why would the car company bother creating it and spending the millions (factory, wages, parts, etc) if they would lose €4,978,000 ?

So - in a Terminator-style timeline - you'd have nothing to copy.

EDIT : Actually, they'd lose €5,000,000 because no mug would buy the first one if they knew that everyone else would be getting theirs free.

They wouldnt have to since evidently there is a technology that can copy cars.

hatrickpatrick · 12-08-2011 06:36PM

Well this is just my perspective as a young musician.
If I decide to pursue a career in music I never expect to make much at all from song sales.
In the past, touring has been "to promote the album". U2 are touring "to promote the No Line on the Horizon album" for instance.
I think this will simply be reversed.

IE: You will not go on tour to promote your album, you will release your songs, for free, to convince people that coming to see you play live in concert would be beyond epic. Then you make money from ticket sales.

Just a theory I have really. Live performances are always ten times better than album versions anyway. Most of the songs on my iPod aren't album versions, they're recordings from live shows.

RichieC · 12-08-2011 06:38PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well this is just my perspective as a young musician.
If I decide to pursue a career in music I never expect to make much at all from song sales.
In the past, touring has been "to promote the album". U2 are touring "to promote the No Line on the Horizon album" for instance.
I think this will simply be reversed.

IE: You will not go on tour to promote your album, you will release your songs, for free, to convince people that coming to see you play live in concert would be beyond epic. Then you make money from ticket sales.

Just a theory I have really. Live performances are always ten times better than album versions anyway. Most of the songs on my iPod aren't album versions, they're recordings from live shows.

Bands have always made their money gigging, the suits make money from the albums.

Radiohead model is the way forward.

Liam Byrne · 12-08-2011 06:44PM

RichieC wrote: »

They wouldnt have to since evidently there is a technology that can copy cars.

Copy an existing one - yes.

Develop a new one - no.

So, as I said, no new or innovative cars being developed. We'd all be driving around in cloned Model Ts.

Gandhi · 12-08-2011 06:45PM

If you are smart you can combine both.

A few days back I kicked in the window of a Tesco and grabbed a rockin' bag of rice I'd had my eye on for months. I then had my friend take a pic of me with it, and forty million copies of that pic (that I never authorized) are now using up 20% of the storage on twitpic, imgur and yfrog, and countless email inboxes. I took the rice to work and made photocopies of it and cooked up a huge meal of both looted and pirated rice for all my friends. Good photocopying too, as no-one could tell the difference in taste between the soggy balled-up scraps of paper and the sh***y Tesco rice.

Toby Take a Bow · 12-08-2011 06:48PM

black francis wrote: »

Well, next time you meet him ask him how he would feel if someone uploaded his cd to a file-sharing website.
What if nobody bought any copies of the cd he's currently selling because all his 'fans' have previously illegally downloaded it?

As RichieC says above, Radiohead model will be the way forward. Now, people will say that using Radiohead as an example is unfair, as firstly, they only did it for one album and secondly they have a huge fanbase which can justify their 'experiment'. But other (smaller) artists are doing it. Jens Lekman encourages people to download his music (I've yet to buy an album of his, but I have seen him live, so have spent ten or fifteen euro on an artist I never would have, if I didn't have ready access to his music) and Kristin Hersh seems to be really behind it: her cash music project is a fairly complex but complete embrace of the download idea but with extras thrown in. Some bands won't be able to survive, but if you think about it, it may be going back to the pre-1950s era, when it was all about the live music.

joseph brand · 12-08-2011 06:54PM

jme2010 wrote: »

This was a debate I had with a co-worker.

I dissaprove of the rioting and looting, but I download illeaglly: songs, games, dvds, iphone apps etc.

He saw this as somewhat of a contradiction.

Are those who download illegally "criminals" as he put it? Or is it "not the same thing" as I put it.

Total grey area in my opinion.

Your co-worker is a tw*t!

jmayo · 12-08-2011 07:01PM

Alter-Ego wrote: »

Yeah, because putting a bin through the window of Carphone Warehouse window is exactly the same as downloading Phil Collins' Greatest Hits.

If it's a jury trial you are screwed either way.

d'Oracle wrote: »

Ever wonder what possessed someone to refer to it as piracy?

Feck it someone should tell Sony about all those Somalian pirates.

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I'm downloading a copy of the Koran at the moment if any wants me to burn them a copy let me know:)

So how is the weather like in Florida Reverend ?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's an interesting one, but the problem with that argument is that the car wouldn't exist.

Think about it.

A car company spends - say - €5,000,000 to create a particular car model.
They then sell ONE for €22,000
And you copy it, as does everyone else
...

I know a fair few people who reckon that is exactly what a certain large Asian country is doing.

This debate is a bit like the one on motors claiming speeders are attempted murderers or some such.

twinQuins · 12-08-2011 07:30PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Copy an existing one - yes.

Develop a new one - no.

So, as I said, no new or innovative cars being developed. We'd all be driving around in cloned Model Ts.

Unless of course someone (or some group of people) decided to develop a new car.

But of course, without monetary recompense humanity is doomed to a fate of utter stagnation...

Forest Master · 12-08-2011 07:38PM

Anyone who voted "it's the same thing" is clearly stupid and has no sense of logic, scale, context, common sense, or judgement.

Capt'n Midnight · 12-08-2011 07:48PM

Dun wrote: »

Piracy is not theft. As much as I'd love to download a new Galaxy S2, it's not possible.

just a matter of time really
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-11/02/printed-car

A prototype for an electric vehicle -- code named Urbee -- is the first to have its entire body built with a 3D printer.

Capt'n Midnight · 12-08-2011 08:02PM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

piracy is theft, and all the moral hoops you all try to jump through to convince yourselves otherwise are just ridiculous.

Piracy is NOT theft.

Piracy is a very serious marine crime frequently associated with murder and violence, just look at what is happening in Somalia, in the Amazon or Indonesia. It's one of those crimes that any country can prosecute you for.

Theft is where you deprive someone of something they own. Generally speaking you can't be prosecuted for it if you move to a different state/country.

Copyright infringement is where you make a copy without the copyright owners permission before the copyright expires. The legalities vary by country. The copyright term in Japan for music was only 20 years not so long ago. In Ethiopia there was no copyright on software. Australia has a shorter term for copyright then we have so Gutenberg.au has lots of stuff you can't legally download.

If you have an album on one format ( VHS / Betamax / CD / Laserdisk / DVD / Cassette / Blueray / minidisk / MP3 ) then you are NOT allowed to make a copy (if you disagree please post a link form IMRO or statuebook.ie) so the act of ripping an album is illegal. Yes you paid for that plastic disk but you don't have the right to play it in public

Capt'n Midnight · 12-08-2011 08:03PM

yupyup7up wrote: »

What about if you download a movie illegally, but you actually already had the movie bought on DVD but lost it. Does this count? Also, what about Facebook stealing personal information?

you signed up for facebook , but have to agree with you on third parties being tagged

bnt · 12-08-2011 08:05PM

I dunno ... downloading media got old real quick for me, haven't done it in years. I just don't need a lot of stuff. My music collection doesn't have much newer than 1995 in it, but I like a few new independent bands: they aren't signed to any major labels, so I know that buying their music and going to their gigs supports them directly, not "big media" lawyers.

I have cable TV with HDD recording, so I'm not short of good movies to watch. Most new movies are crap and not worth the bandwidth, in my opinion: they never give me the feeling that I have to see them ASAP, so I have no urge to download a crappy copy. It irks me that my internet connection might be slowed down by kids downloading gigabytes of Transformers movies ... I can think of better use for that bandwidth.

Capt'n Midnight · 12-08-2011 08:12PM

black francis wrote: »

You do understand what 'copyright' is?
If the material you're 'copying' is 'copyrighted' then it is 'stealing'.

you've been brainwashed.ut

On the criminal side, certain acts in relation to the copyright work are characterised in copyright legislation as offences, for which penalties are prescribed. These offences include, not only the making of counterfeit works but also dealing in infringing works – by, for example, importing them, selling or renting them. Criminal penalties extend to fines of up to €127,000 and/or terms of imprisonment of up to 5 years.

Theft on the other hand is this
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0004.html

Download Illegally? You're no better than the looters.

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