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Download Illegally? You're no better than the looters.

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Comments

  • #62
    Voodu Child
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,706 ✭✭✭Voodu Child


    yupyup7up wrote: »
    What about if you download a movie illegally, but you actually already had the movie bought on DVD but lost it. Does this count? Also, what about Facebook stealing personal information?

    When you bought the DVD, you paid for the non-expiring right to watch it in your home; the media itself (disc & box) barely costs anything.

    Well, you didn't lose that right, its not possible to mislay something intangible. You only mislaid the media. So I don't see how downloading a copy could be construed as immoral, regardless of the technicalities.

    Its the same with a scratched DVD or game disc.


  • #63
    bpb101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭bpb101


    optogirl wrote: »
    Eh - don't think it would take too long to get the gist.

    didnt see 1 or 2 , just an example , plus how do you know you "get the gist" before you go into the cinema


  • #64
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    both are illegal OP but its a case of a lesser of two evils , at least illegal downloading doesnt have the same impact of a anitque furniture store being burnt to the ground after having been in the family for over 5 genernations


  • #65
    hardCopy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    They are definitely NOT being "shared"

    If you share a chip or a milkshake, you get half (or one-tenth if you share with 9 people)

    If you share music, you need to be in the same place to hear it

    Sharing is a complete misnomer and used to make it sound less objectionable.

    They are definitely NOT being "stolen"

    If you steal a chip or a milkshake, you get half (or one-tenth if you share with 9 people)

    If you steal music, the owner can't hear it

    Stealing is a complete misnomer and used to make it sound more objectionable.


    It's not sharing and it's not stealing, it's copying.


  • #66
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    I don't view it as stealing, because on a technical point, it's not. But it's just as bad really.


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  • #67
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    **** poll imo
    • I do not think looting is the same as piracy
    • I would not download the whole internet if I could
    • It is not a grey area with moral issues

    Piracy is and should be illegal but you simple can't compare the two. Moral issues don't even come in to it


  • #68
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    I could extend the analogy and say I was forced to pay incredibly extortionate prices for electrical goods for years as well as being forced to buy up to twelves of them when I only ever wanted to buy one or two so at this stage they owe me a few.


  • #69
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,369 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    How about people who buy second hand media? Games, DVDs and CDs are traded in all over the place. The only person who gets money out of a second hand sale is the reseller. The original artist gets nothing.

    Therefore I guess they're as bad as looters too.


  • #70
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    hardCopy wrote: »


    It's not sharing and it's not stealing, it's copying.


    You do understand what 'copyright' is?
    If the material you're 'copying' is 'copyrighted' then it is 'stealing'.


  • #71
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    stovelid wrote: »
    I could extend the analogy and say I was forced to pay incredibly extortionate prices for electrical goods for years as well as being forced to buy up to twelves of them when I only ever wanted to buy one or two so at this stage they owe me a few.

    You were never forced, you chose to. You just happened to have far less choice than you do now.


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  • #72
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Grimebox wrote: »
    **** poll imo
    • I do not think looting is the same as piracy
    • I would not download the whole internet if I could
    • It is not a grey area with moral issues

    Piracy is and should be illegal but you simple can't compare the two. Moral issues don't even come in to it

    Ever wonder what possessed someone to refer to it as piracy?


  • #73
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,369 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    black francis wrote: »
    You do understand what 'copyright' is?
    If the material you're 'copying' is 'copyrighted' then it is 'stealing'.

    No, if the material you're 'copying' is 'copywrited' then you're 'breaking copywrite law'.


  • #74
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    I think the worse crime is when you invite friends round to watch a rented movie. That can get the feds on yo ass!


  • #75
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    minidazzler wrote: »
    You were never forced, you chose to. You just happened to have far less choice than you do now.

    Thanks.

    Can you further elucidate on any more of my inner feelings from that era while you;re at it?


  • #76
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    o1s1n wrote: »
    No, if the material you're 'copying' is 'copywrited' then you're 'breaking copywrite law'.


    Semantics.
    Amounts to the same thing IMO.


  • #77
    Kold
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »
    so I guess posession of child pornography shouldn't be a crime either?
    you're not creating it, you're just copying it.. right?

    I could get behind that.


  • #78
    blaze1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭blaze1


    I wouldnt steal a car, but I'd download one if i could.:pac:


  • #79
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,369 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    black francis wrote: »
    Semantics.
    Amounts to the same thing IMO.

    No it doesn't as it depends what your interpretation of stealing is.


  • #80
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    o1s1n wrote: »
    How about people who buy second hand media? Games, DVDs and CDs are traded in all over the place. The only person who gets money out of a second hand sale is the reseller. The original artist gets nothing.

    Therefore I guess they're as bad as looters too.

    I guess when you resell, you're only passing on a single item that was once paid for albeit one that is being resold. Downloading means you are creating actual new copies: you are actually generating new products in effect.


  • #81
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    ITT: privileged people explain why their crimes aren't really crimes because they commit them.


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  • #82
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Those second hand clothes shops. Buch of theives they are!


  • #83
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    o1s1n wrote: »
    No it doesn't as it depends what your interpretation of stealing is.


    Which seems to be what this thread is about.

    I’ve got to admit I’ve watched illegally downloaded movies, read illegally downloaded books and listened to illegally downloaded albums.
    Is it immoral? – yes, I think it is.
    Do I feel bad about it? – not really, people do stuff all the time that goes against their better moral judgments. I think people trying to claim that they don’t think there’s anything immoral about it are only trying to fool themselves.
    Just admit to yourself that you’re a bit of a selfish prick – we’ll understand.


  • #84
    Bonavox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »
    so I guess posession of child pornography shouldn't be a crime either?
    you're not creating it, you're just copying it.. right?

    Child pornography is illegal in the first place, though. What a laughable argument.


  • #85
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Ever wonder what possessed someone to refer to it as piracy?

    I actually don't follow what you are getting at here. Some reference to looting and pirates of old?


  • #86
    wildefalcon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 938 ✭✭✭wildefalcon


    The moral issues are manifold, but the whole "copyright" and "patent" aspect of property rights has been very biased in favour of the larger media "owners".

    Take, for example, the songs of Bob Dylan.

    They are folk songs, that have been inspired/derived/evolved from older songs, including Irish traditional songs. But his songs are copyright.

    If I copy the irish song I'm not breaking the rules, but if I copy his I am.

    SO why the difference? It's because Mr Dylan has "signed" to a record label.

    Fair enough, he should have some benefit from his creativity, but for the record label to have that creativity forever? How will the music evolve?


  • #87
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Singing 'Happy Birthday' without sending Time-Warner a few quid is just as bad as the looting.


  • #88
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Grimebox wrote: »
    I actually don't follow what you are getting at here. Some reference to looting and pirates of old?

    I'm getting at how I would like to know if anybody else wonders why people refer to the distribution of copyrighted works with out permission is referred to with the same word as acts of war by private parties at sea.


  • #89
    7sr2z3fely84g5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    some people might download "illegally" due to copyright restrictions placed on some movies/music/books/tv programs,the same situation would apply if the books/movies/music/tv programs where out of print.


  • #90
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    o1s1n wrote: »
    No, if the material you're 'copying' is 'copywrited' then you're 'breaking copywrite law'.

    What ? :confused:

    It's called "Copyright".......the clue is in the name : the "right" to "copy".

    When you buy the CD, it is printed on it that "the right to copy" remains with the copyright holder.

    When you "download" the file, you're making a copy (whoever uploaded it already broke to copyright law, but so did you, because their "copy" is still on the web server).


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  • #91
    Kold
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    hooradiation wrote: »
    ITT: privileged people explain why their crimes aren't really crimes because they commit them.

    I don't deny it's a crime, but I'm comfortable with it. Remaining within the confines of the law has the potential to be as amoral as anyone else. I think what we allow within the confines of the law is often a larger problem with society.

    So like, enjoy your high horse but it's sort of laughable that you feel the need to do so in order to validate yourself.


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