Ireland vs France in BORDEAUX August 2011 mod warning post 287

CIARAN_BOYLE · 10-08-2011 10:43AM

buck65 wrote: »

Thought Buckley did fine at the weekend, Court was a mess, Hayes was solid when he came on. Has anyone ever seen Court play tighthead? for all the talk about his ability to cover both positions I can't remember him playing there for Ireland.
Horan is still a better option than Court at LH, remarkably.

Court played 20 minutes at the end of the Samoa game and the end of a couple of 6Ns matches

GerM · 10-08-2011 10:58AM

buck65 wrote: »

Horan is still a better option than Court at LH, remarkably.

Would have to disagree. People don't see things that Court does when Hayes was lauded for the exact same things for years. He has a very high work rate. He's normally amongst the top tacklers on the pitch and gets around the park well for a man of his size. He clears out well, tackles his ass off and is an acceptable scrummager at loosehead. He even carries now and again reasonably. Horan's ability in the loose has receded greatly since his absence recent seasons and, whilst his scrummaging has improved over the years, he doesn't have the work rate around the park.

buck65 · 10-08-2011 11:36AM

A year ago I would have agreed but Horan has somehow mangaed to roll back the years and up it recently.
Of course I think even having Horan and Hayes in the squad is folly but Court inspires even less confidence for me.
I rarely remember him playing well apart from against Fiji IIRC.
Kidney has just decided to settle on a very very ordinary prop pool to chose from rather than widening his search to include some of the younger lads and Connacht props.
Surprising really but to me Court, Horan and Hayes (and probably Buckley apart from other aspects - disrupting rucks etc.) are no longer or never were in Courts case up to international rugby.
We are relying on Healy and Ross - a poor scrummager with great running ability and a good scrummager with let's face it a very ordinary player in the loose to get us to a RWC semi.
More of a gaping hole than a blind spot.

NikNak8 · 10-08-2011 12:33PM

Any predictions for the team? Who is still injured? My preferable team is below:
15. Jones
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. McFadden
11. Trimble
10. O'Gara
9. Murray
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. O'Brien
5. O'Connell
4. O'Callaghan
3. Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

Bench: Flannery(30 mins), Court, Cullen, Leamy, Wallace, Reddan, Fitzgerald

totallegend · 10-08-2011 12:34PM

buck65 wrote: »

We are relying on Healy and Ross - a poor scrummager with great running ability and a good scrummager with let's face it a very ordinary player in the loose to get us to a RWC semi.
More of a gaping hole than a blind spot.

This discussion really should be moved to the 'Prop Debate' thread...

Healy's scrummaging ability has improved massively in the last 12 months and Ross has shown great ball-carrying ability for Leinster this season (certainly more than Hayes ever did), so I'm not too worried on either front so long as both remain fit.

If either is injured we're in trouble. Hayes' alleged renaissance is based on one scrum set in the ML final - his legs are gone, he is not up to the pace of the game anymore, end of. Horan is not far behind I'm afraid and he seems to have fallen into the Alan Quinlan trap of believing that you can prolong your career by trying to be clever and loitering on the wrong side of rucks and making a "nuisance" of yourself. That is maybe acceptable for back-rowers but Horan just looks a liability in terms of giving away penalties.

Court is not the solution to anything, but he can at least put in some sort of a shift on both sides. We have no other prop who can do anything close to that, therefore the no. 17 jersey is his by default, really.

wixfjord · 10-08-2011 12:43PM

buck65 wrote: »

A year ago I would have agreed but Horan has somehow mangaed to roll back the years and up it recently.
Of course I think even having Horan and Hayes in the squad is folly but Court inspires even less confidence for me.
I rarely remember him playing well apart from against Fiji IIRC.
Kidney has just decided to settle on a very very ordinary prop pool to chose from rather than widening his search to include some of the younger lads and Connacht props.
Surprising really but to me Court, Horan and Hayes (and probably Buckley apart from other aspects - disrupting rucks etc.) are no longer or never were in Courts case up to international rugby.
We are relying on Healy and Ross - a poor scrummager with great running ability and a good scrummager with let's face it a very ordinary player in the loose to get us to a RWC semi.
More of a gaping hole than a blind spot.

I agree on Horan.
I agree on Court completely, I really think that he could cause us huge problems in the WC.

However, I think you're being a bit harsh on Ross and Healy. Healy isn't as poor a scrummager as some would have you think. He's handled Clermont, Leicester, Northampton (for a half!), and Toulouse amongst others this year, as well as killed the English scrum. He may lack a bit of experience, but his scrummaging has seriously improved.

Ross on the other hand has dramatically improved the carrying side of his game, to the point where it's now no longer really a weakness, compared to other props anyway. I think this is just used as a stick to beat Ross, Hayes for example rarely if ever carried more than 10 yards a game for Ireland I'd wager. Ross made big carries for Leinster throughout the season, two for example against Toulouse, and Racing which I specifically remember.

totallegend · 10-08-2011 12:44PM

NikNak8 wrote: »

My preferable team is below:
15. Jones
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. McFadden
11. Trimble
10. O'Gara
9. Murray
8. Heaslip
7. Wallace
6. O'Brien
5. O'Connell
4. O'Callaghan
3. Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

Bench: Flannery(30 mins), Court, Cullen, Leamy, Wallace, Reddan, Fitzgerald

Yeah, that looks generally OK with a few comments:
1) I can't see Murray starting; no reflection on him but I think his ship has sailed - DK will want more game time for TOL and Reddan needs some too. Maybe Murray will come off the bench but I think his RWC chances are fading (with Boss the front-runner to go).
2) Jennings has to be in the squad, either on the bench or starting.
3) I wouldn't be surprised to see the Wallace-McFadden axis again, but I would much rather play McFadden at 12, as you suggest, with Earls/Trimble outside.

Luckycharm · 10-08-2011 01:38PM

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah, that looks generally OK with a few comments:
1) I can't see Murray starting; no reflection on him but I think his ship has sailed - DK will want more game time for TOL and Reddan needs some too. Maybe Murray will come off the bench but I think his RWC chances are fading (with Boss the front-runner to go).
2) Jennings has to be in the squad, either on the bench or starting.
3) I wouldn't be surprised to see the Wallace-McFadden axis again, but I would much rather play McFadden at 12, as you suggest, with Earls/Trimble outside.

I would not like to see Earls or Trimble at 13- earls has proved he is a back 3 player and we need to stop messing him around. Trimbles hands/passing are not good enough to play top class 13. Would like to see Bowe played there he has the skills and did a fine job there for the lions.

theboss80 · 10-08-2011 02:15PM

Id like to see

1 Healy
2 Flannery (Best to replace at halftime)
3 Ross (Hayes to come in at 60)
4 McCarthy (Cullen to come on at 60)
5 O'Connell
6 O'Brien
7 Wallace
8 Heaslip
9 Murray (Reddan to replace at halftime)
10 Sexton (ROG to replace at halftime)
11 Earls
12 McFadden
13 Bowe
14 Trimble (Kearney to replace at 50)
15 Jones (Murphy to replace at 60)

BoarHunter · 10-08-2011 02:15PM

the french team :

Traille - Clerc, Marty, Mermoz, Palisson - Trinh-Duc, Yachvili - Harinordoquy, Lakafia, Dusautoir (cap.) - Millo-Chluski, Pierre - Ducalcon, Szarzewski, Marconnet
Bench : Guirado, Poux, Nallet, Bonnaire, Parra, Skrela, Médard, Barcella (23rd man).

sock puppet · 10-08-2011 02:19PM

That's a fairly strong team. The backline is probably first choice apart from Parra and Medard?

GerM · 10-08-2011 02:22PM

Delighted to see Barcella back in the mix. Fair play to him after all he has come through. If he comes back the same player, it will be a major boost for France.

Should be a good test for us. I expect we'll go with about half our first choice pack this week.

BoarHunter · 10-08-2011 02:23PM

missing Rougerie, Medard and Heymans but lievremont always seems to favour Traille....

Parra is behind Yachvili apparently in the trend. As for the pack, it's not the first choice either but it should be solid.

BoarHunter · 10-08-2011 02:24PM

GerM wrote: »

Delighted to see Barcella back in the mix. Fair play to him after all he has come through. If he comes back the same player, it will be a major boost for France.

Should be a good test for us. I expect we'll go with about half our first choice pack this week.

Barcella just ruptured an elbow ligament... i really don't know why he is on the list ...

theboss80 · 10-08-2011 02:29PM

Also Medard is injured isn't he?

BoarHunter · 10-08-2011 02:36PM

theboss80 wrote: »

Also Medard is injured isn't he?

No he will just play in Ireland. Palisson is playing this time. There will be 2 mixed teams. Not a A team in France and a B team in ireland.

No Major XV outlined during these tests.

ionadnapóca · 10-08-2011 02:42PM

my team to play against a tough french pack

15. Jones
14. Bowe
13. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
11. Kearney
10. O'Gara
9. Reddan
8. Heaslip
7. Jennings preferably Domnic Ryan. If Jennings injured:- Wallace
6. O'Brien (50-60min)
5. O'Connell
4. O'Callaghan
3. Ross (50-60min)
2. Best
1. Court (need to see if the scrum can function with him & Ross)

Bench:
Picked to test the front row combos
Heaslip to provide emergencey cover for 2nd row

Flannery(30 mins), Healy, Buckley, DWallace, TO'L(20-30min) , Murphy(10-15min @15), Earls

thomond2006 · 10-08-2011 04:23PM

France:
15 Damien Traille, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 David Marty, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Alexis Palisson, 10 François Trinh-Duc, 9 Dimitri Yachvili,
8 Raphaël Lakafia, 7 Imanol Harinordoquy, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Romian Millo-Chluski, 4 Julien Pierre, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Sylvain Marconnet

Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Jean-Baptiste Poux, 18 Lionel Nallet, 19 Julien Bonnaire, 20 Morgan Parra, 21 David Skrela, 22 Maxime Médard, 23 Fabien Barcella.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7091694,00.html

Barcella is 23rd man, they still don't know if he's fit. Pretty strong outfit.

Hippo · 10-08-2011 04:44PM

Very strong French team, hope we don't get stuffed, would not be great for morale, 'friendly' or not.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 10-08-2011 04:47PM

Will we be announcing a 23 man squad too?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 10-08-2011 09:21PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Will we be announcing a 23 man squad too?

France arent annuncing a 23 man squad. Its their way f saying Barcella's participatin is based n a fitness test

irishbucsfan · 10-08-2011 11:26PM

f***

durkadurka · 10-08-2011 11:27PM

Brendan fanning probable team

Probable Ireland team v France:

Rob Kearney;
Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Paddy Wallace, Luke Fitzgerald;
Ronan O’Gara,
Eoin Reddan;

Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross,
Donncha O’Callaghan, Leo Cullen,
Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Sean O’Brien.

Replacements: Jerry Flannery, Tony Buckley, Paul O’Connell, Jamie Heaslip; Conor Murray, Fergus McFadden, Felix Jones

theboss80 · 10-08-2011 11:44PM

If I see Earls announced as 13 tomorrow i'll burst :mad:

irishbucsfan · 11-08-2011 01:25AM

durkadurka wrote: »

Brendan fanning probable team

Probable Ireland team v France:

Rob Kearney;
Andrew Trimble, Keith Earls, Paddy Wallace, Luke Fitzgerald;
Ronan O’Gara,
Eoin Reddan;

Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross,
Donncha O’Callaghan, Leo Cullen,
Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Sean O’Brien.

Replacements: Jerry Flannery, Tony Buckley, Paul O’Connell, Jamie Heaslip; Conor Murray, Fergus McFadden, Felix Jones

I would like it. Wallace and Earls could be lethal, if a little sketch in defense. We do need to try other options at 13.

ROG plays better beside Wallace than D'Arcy imo, takes the creative pressure off of him a little, lets him concentrate on his natural strengths. Look at 09 for an example of that.

Ryan HAS to perform if he's selected in the back row or he can kiss his world cup hopes goodbye.

Things I'd be disappointed about: Would prefer to see Ryan, Jennings, O'Brien in the back row... and that's it I think. And I'm not even sure if Jennings is fit?

Looking forward to the team announcement.

totallegend · 11-08-2011 08:28AM

durkadurka wrote: »

Brendan fanning probable team

Don't know if there's any point writing a big essay on a hypothetical team, but I'd be pretty disappointed with that team, and I'll be OUTRAGED if Shane Jennings is fit and not given a shot.

Podge_irl · 11-08-2011 08:56AM

Team announced at lunch time? That probable team is a bit dodgy. Earls at 13 is a stupid call and that backrow looks awfully one dimensional.

Gracelessly Tom · 11-08-2011 09:30AM

If that probable team turns out to be correct then we are in for a hiding! Backline is weak, particularly the centres and Ryan does not instil confidence in that backrow. Leamy has had a game (played well v Scot), give Jennings a run and see if he can try get himself a seat on the plane.

fitz · 11-08-2011 09:37AM

If the probable team is correct, I'll be miffed.
Earls is a winger, leave him there.
If something happens to BOD down in NZ, Earls as an option at centre is surely behind Bowe or McFadden?

Earls and Wallace as the centres could be shown up defensively against what looks a fairly tidy French team...

NikNak8 · 11-08-2011 09:44AM

Think Earls at centre has to be tried, hendo makes some valid points in one of todays papers. Would like to see earls play outside O'Driscoll.
Reddan, O'Gara, Wallace and Earls together would be way too lightweight in defense.

Ireland vs France in BORDEAUX August 2011 **mod warning post 287**

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Ireland vs France in BORDEAUX August 2011 mod warning post 287