Ireland vs France in BORDEAUX August 2011 mod warning post 287

TheHighRoad · 09-08-2011 10:44AM

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Ross 4.POC 5.DOC 6.O'Brien 7.Jennings 8.Heaslip 9.Boss 10.Sexton 11.Earls 12.McFadden 13.Bowe 14.Fitzgerald 15.Kearney. Give McCarthy a run at lock after 50mins for Cullen, bring on O'Gara at 50mins, Trimble for Fitzgerald at 50mins and Cronin for Best for 50mins, McLaughlin for O'Brien after 60mins

ormond lad · 09-08-2011 11:15AM

TheHighRoad wrote: »

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Ross 4.POC 5.DOC 6.O'Brien 7.Jennings 8.Heaslip 9.Boss 10.Sexton 11.Earls 12.McFadden 13.Bowe 14.Fitzgerald 15.Kearney. Give McCarthy a run at lock after 50mins for Cullen, bring on O'Gara at 50mins, Trimble for Fitzgerald at 50mins and Cronin for Best for 50mins, McLaughlin for O'Brien after 60mins

If mcarthy is to come on for cullen, who is cullen playing instead of? POC or DOC?

irishbucsfan · 09-08-2011 11:16AM

Healy, Flannery and Ross need to play together as much as possible. Even if it means leaving Best out more than would normally.

Good to have the hooker debate starting up again though!

crisco10 · 09-08-2011 11:28AM

Hopefully Mclaughlin will get a start this week or next as opposed to a coming off the bench in lots of games. Deserves his chance to put himself forward from the off.

thomond2006 · 09-08-2011 12:36PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/14460261.stm

Court is starting for Ulster on Wednesday, looks like Healy will start for Ireland now.

stephen_n · 09-08-2011 01:11PM

crisco10 wrote: »

Hopefully Mclaughlin will get a start this week or next as opposed to a coming off the bench in lots of games. Deserves his chance to put himself forward from the off.

Given the fact that our starting backrow baring injury will be Wallace, Heaslip and SOB it's important for Locky to prove his worth as an impact sub.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 09-08-2011 05:28PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Given the fact that our starting backrow baring injury will be Wallace, Heaslip and SOB it's important for Locky to prove his worth as an impact sub.

I don't think that he is physical enough to be a good impact player. I'd rather Leamy, Ryan or McCarthy were used in an impact role - Ferris is probably a lost cause at this stage, regrettedly.

My team for the France game:
Healy
Best - Give Flannery 30m from the bench and have him start next week.
Hayes - We need to see if he has it in him. Give Ross 30m from the bench.
McLoughlin
POC
Leamy - We need him if Ferris doesn't travel.
Heaslip
SOB - We need to see if he can cut it at this level, at 7.
Murray - Its a huge test, but it will allow him to show if he is ready to make the stepup. Reddan and TOL will be the scrumhalves though.
ROG - He deserves a chance to lay a claim for the 10 jersey, after Sexton's poor performance at the weekend.
Earls
Fitz- He is our 4th best winger and could be useful in the centre. I hope (but doubt) he has the confidence to perform out of his comfort zone. Its sink or swim time.
McFadden
Bowe
Jones - He was wrongly blamed for the try at the weekend. In his brief cameo, he showed more going forward than Kearney. A solid performance would put the onus on Kearney to perform.

CatFromHue · 09-08-2011 05:37PM

I wouldn't put Luke Fitz in the centre. He has been tried there before and it didn't work out. The thing he needs most is game time in his current position of the wing to try and get some form back.

If you take it last season he played wing, centre and full back at varying different stages and his form struggled.

joseywhales · 09-08-2011 06:22PM

"We need to see if he can cut it at this level, at 7."

To be honest i think it's time to just let him stick to one position this close to the world cup.

I mean he probably our best 6 or 7 and is close to par with heaslip as an 8, both have different advantages.

But what is the point in moving one of the top three players in the team, on form, around to suit other players. He is our most effective ball carier, give him a jersey and stick with it for the tournament.

danthefan · 09-08-2011 06:32PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Hayes - We need to see if he has it in him. Give Ross 30m from the bench.

We seriously no not need to see anything of the sort. He's our 3rd choice TH at absolute best. Should be nowhere near.

Amazotheamazing · 09-08-2011 06:42PM

joseywhales wrote: »

"We need to see if he can cut it at this level, at 7."

To be honest i think it's time to just let him stick to one position this close to the world cup.

I mean he probably our best 6 or 7 and is close to par with heaslip as an 8, both have different advantages.

But what is the point in moving one of the top three players in the team, on form, around to suit other players. He is our most effective ball carier, give him a jersey and stick with it for the tournament.

I think in time SOB could be better than either Ferris or Heaslip at 6 or 8, he's a massive talent, but I don't see him as a 7 at all.

Hagz · 09-08-2011 06:52PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think in time SOB could be better than either Ferris or Heaslip at 6 or 8, he's a massive talent, but I don't see him as a 7 at all.

I would have said SOB is a better 6 than Ferris already. I don't think Ferris ever had a season like SOB has just had, based on the season that's just past, It's not an over statement to say that SOB is the in form 6 in world rugby.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 09-08-2011 07:38PM

joseywhales wrote: »

"We need to see if he can cut it at this level, at 7."

To be honest i think it's time to just let him stick to one position this close to the world cup.

I mean he probably our best 6 or 7 and is close to par with heaslip as an 8, both have different advantages.

But what is the point in moving one of the top three players in the team, on form, around to suit other players. He is our most effective ball carier, give him a jersey and stick with it for the tournament.

In the likely event that Jennings doesn't travel, we need to see if SOB can cover 7. We need a.backup to Wallace.

danthefan wrote: »

We seriously no not need to see anything of the sort. He's our 3rd choice TH at absolute best. Should be nowhere near.

Many people would disagree. Hayes is obviously past his best but, he is just as viable an option for the WC as Buckley (Who I have defended here to no end). We know that Hayes will always give 100% and perform to a decent enough standard.

That can't be said for Buckley. He has the much maligned potential to be brillaint but, it is a complete guess whether or not he will perform.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 09-08-2011 07:49PM

To be honest I would bring Buckley and Court if it was my decision

When picking my second choice props I want someone who can cover both sides and sit on the bench and provide 20 minutes against USA, Italy and Aus and play 80 minutes against Russia ie Court. I also want someone who is primarily a TH who can play 80 minutes against Russia. Meaning I want someone I trust to play the whole 80 minutes.

How often did Hayes do that last season. Twice? I'll call on buckley.

GerM · 09-08-2011 08:46PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

To be honest I would bring Buckley and Court if it was my decision

When picking my second choice props I want someone who can cover both sides and sit on the bench and provide 20 minutes against USA, Italy and Aus and play 80 minutes against Russia ie Court. I also want someone who is primarily a TH who can play 80 minutes against Russia. Meaning I want someone I trust to play the whole 80 minutes.

How often did Hayes do that last season. Twice? I'll call on buckley.

How often did Buckley do that last season? Twice I think also. There are reasons to select Buckley ahead of Hayes but on the basis of him being an 80 minute man isn't one of them. I think either of them should be able to last 80 minutes against the conditioning of a Russian or American side. I'd select Buckley on the basis that neither side should be a particularly stern scrummaging test technically and his carrying and handling could create something. If we need Hayes lifting to help our line out against these sides, we're in serious trouble.

GerM · 09-08-2011 08:55PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

We know that Hayes will always give 100% and perform to a decent enough standard.

We know Hayes will always give 100% but we've seen on several occasions in the past that doesn't equate to a decent enough standard at this stage of his career. He was absolutely destroyed in his last international against Samoa for example. He is as much a liability as Buckley is at this point, unfortunately. I think he'll be on the plane though.

CatFromHue · 09-08-2011 09:08PM

GerM wrote: »

He was absolutely destroyed in his last international against Samoa for example.

I'm not 100% sure about that and I think destroyed is too harsh a word. If I remember right the scrums were very bad in general that day and Hayes took all the flak. There were alot of early engagements, the Samoans gave away a bit, and what everyone is overlooking is that Court gave away alot more penalties than Hayes.

I can't find the stats for that game but Hayes ended up taking the fall for what wasn't his fault.

GerM · 09-08-2011 09:22PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure about that and I think destroyed is too harsh a word. If I remember right the scrums were very bad in general that day and Hayes took all the flak. There were alot of early engagements, the Samoans gave away a bit, and what everyone is overlooking is that Court gave away alot more penalties than Hayes.

I can't find the stats for that game but Hayes ended up taking the fall for what wasn't his fault.

He was generally very poor overall I felt and there was no doubting that the scrum was much improved after his departure and Court went to tighthead.I don't have the stats but I recall both gave away penalties during the match. He simply doesn't have the legs for international rugby anymore though, outside the scrum. It's not his fault, he's pushing 38 years of age. It's madness we're even having to ask him to put himself through this. It has been noticeable since the Grand Slam that he has been on the wane. It's a shame that someone like Hagan didn't get a run in the past year at all or even brought into a training squad.

CatFromHue · 09-08-2011 09:31PM

It's probably being pedantic but of all the props on show that day Hayes gave away the least amount of penalties. The scrums were a mess but I don't think you can blame him for that.

You're right it is madness at 38 but as per his whole career there are limited other options. He is no longer first choice but as back up props go I'd like to see him get a proper run out, like all the other props, before I make a judgement.

It should also be noted I don't think we stole, not sure if we even competed, a Scottish line out til he came on.

GerM · 09-08-2011 09:38PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

It should also be noted I don't think we stole, not sure if we even competed, a Scottish line out til he came on.

I'd agree on that point. I said elsewhere that I think Hayes will get the nod based on loyalty and the fact that his line out lifting is genuinely excellent. But personally, I wouldn't bring him. We shouldn't need his lifting to survive against Russia or the USA; I believe Buckley's ability to carry and handle the ball would bear more fruit against these sides. We should have the measure of them in the set piece regardless of which props play.

I think he should of course though be allowed a good run out to see just where he rates in relation to Buckley. I think he'll get a run alongside Flannery and POC and the line out will go smoothly thereby giving him a strong case.

danthefan · 09-08-2011 09:43PM

Should all our 3rd or 4th choice players not get a run to see how they get on in a strong team then, or just Hayes?

Hagz · 09-08-2011 09:48PM

It's so embarrassing that Hagan hasn't even got a cap. Surely this should've have been thought about well in advance.

grohlisagod · 09-08-2011 10:12PM

Personally, I'd be surprised if we don't bring both Buckley and Hayes.

thomond2006 · 10-08-2011 07:47AM

A lot of posters have mentioned Buckleys carrying ability. I think that's proven to be a myth tbh, more often than not he takes the ball static and/or gets put on his backside in possession.

fitz · 10-08-2011 08:06AM

Hagz wrote: »

It's so embarrassing that Hagan hasn't even got a cap. Surely this should've have been thought about well in advance.

I thought it was strange to have Hayes on the bench for the Scotland game rather than Hagan. We know what Hayes can do, it would have been an ideal opportunity to give Hagan 25 minutes.

Otacon · 10-08-2011 08:09AM

danthefan wrote: »

Should all our 3rd or 4th choice players not get a run to see how they get on in a strong team then, or just Hayes?

Didn't that happen against Scotland?

Anyway, the choice of second TH is between Buckley and Hayes [in so far as they are the only two options Kidney is considering]. In that case, I want Hayes to travel.

phog · 10-08-2011 08:13AM

danthefan wrote: »

Should all our 3rd or 4th choice players not get a run to see how they get on in a strong team then, or just Hayes?

So all of the team last Saturday were 1st or 2nd choice?

GerM · 10-08-2011 08:29AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

A lot of posters have mentioned Buckleys carrying ability. I think that's proven to be a myth tbh, more often than not he takes the ball static and/or gets put on his backside in possession.

It's very true. Buckley makes nowhere near the yards that people imagine but he is very good at handling the ball. He can move it and offload, taking passes he has no right to. I would compare his carrying a little bit to Hines insofar as that he doesn't make big yards but he can take it into contact and get it away allowing his team to change the point of attack quickly and maintain some continuity. Munster just didn't have the game or the set up to really use this I think.

GerM · 10-08-2011 08:42AM

danthefan wrote: »

Should all our 3rd or 4th choice players not get a run to see how they get on in a strong team then, or just Hayes?

I don't agree with it but I think it will happen. I can see DK putting the band back together and giving Hayes, Flannery and POC a spell on the pitch together at the same time. DK has shown himself to be very loyal to his players and Hayes was one of the mainstays of his teams for 10 years at both Munster and Ireland. I'd be surprised if he doesn't give him every opportunity to put his hand up for a plane ticket.

buck65 · 10-08-2011 09:40AM

Thought Buckley did fine at the weekend, Court was a mess, Hayes was solid when he came on. Has anyone ever seen Court play tighthead? for all the talk about his ability to cover both positions I can't remember him playing there for Ireland.
Horan is still a better option than Court at LH, remarkably.

Edit Hayes and Buckley were fine against one of the poorest top 10 teams ever.

Ireland vs France in BORDEAUX August 2011 **mod warning post 287**

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Ireland vs France in BORDEAUX August 2011 mod warning post 287