Should traffic laws be further enforced for cyclists?

Chips Lovell · 05-08-2011 11:01AM

Beasty wrote: »

I think flashing lights are not illegal as such, but are not "legal" either!

You are not committing an offence if you have a flashing light on during daytime, or in conjuction with a "legal" steady state one at nighttime

That's a more correct interpretation of it alright.

galwaycyclist · 05-08-2011 11:08AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The "I'm too important to wait with the likes of you plebs" manoeuvre. See that the odd time alright, it was endemic when I was over in the UAE

Slightly off topic but as I recall from my time in the UAE it was usually someone connected with the Royal family so it was actually OK for them.

(Tongue firmly in cheek) In Ireland although we have gotten rid of our previous royalty - we replaced them with a system where the purchase of a motor car made you "honourary royalty". As a consequence, the state would seek to pander to your every need - provided you were in a car (and used everybody elses taxes to do so).

In the process, the concept of rule of law got debased to a system for deciding compensation after crashes.

Nanazolie · 05-08-2011 11:12AM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

There is no legal requirement to wear high viz jackets or bands. And flashing lights are technically illegal. Although the government has said it will legistlate to allow for them.

Why is that? They are more visible than the other ones, aren't they?

monument · 05-08-2011 11:13AM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And flashing lights are technically illegal. Although the government has said it will legistlate to allow for them.

While other measures are on hold, the Department said flashing bicycle lights were made legal:

"The use of flashing lights (commonly used by many cyclists) has been illegal since they were introduced to the market in Ireland. The Minister has now signed the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 2009 which makes the use of these lights by cyclists legal."

-- From Department of Transport press release "Dempsey's Christmas Lights......and other good news for cyclists" on December 28, 2009.

Nanazolie wrote: »

Stop at red lights (all of them)

Agreed.

I want to win commuter races on skill, not by default because somebody breaks a light. It's so annoying when that happens.

Nanazolie wrote: »

Wear high vis jackets / bands

Only if everybody has to wear high-vis while waking even in urban areas and all cars have to have a large high-vis stripe all the way around the car.

Otherwise, no.

Nanazolie wrote: »

No counter-traffic cycling

We need to allow it in a lot of more cases, as happens in French and German cities.

Nanazolie wrote: »

No smoking, eating, reading, texting (or making calls). You need both hands for a reason.

No, you don't need both hands -- in fact, you need to be able to have one hand on the handle bar for things like hand signals and looking behind you.

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 11:16AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

Why is that? They are more visible than the other ones, aren't they?

why? because they are totally unneeded. why aren't all clothes bright yellow, why don't all bikes have to be painted luminous orange, and cars and buses?

I assume anyone who wears one on a bike is incompetent and has to be treated with extra care tbh.

Chips Lovell · 05-08-2011 11:17AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

Why is that? They are more visible than the other ones, aren't they?

I suppose for the same reason you're not obliged to have a day-glo car.

monument wrote: »

While other measures are on hold, the Department said flashing bicycle lights were made legal:
"The use of flashing lights (commonly used by many cyclists) has been illegal since they were introduced to the market in Ireland. The Minister has now signed the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 2009 which makes the use of these lights by cyclists legal."

Cheers. Didn't realise they'd gone and done it.

ednwireland · 05-08-2011 11:18AM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

On the issue of speeding, looks like there's been a big upsurge in the numbers being done, according to today's Irish Times:

prob more todo with mobile speed cameras being introduced round the country (people arent speeding any more or less just being caught )

edit; should read article thats basically what it said

seamus · 05-08-2011 11:18AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

Why is that? They are more visible than the other ones, aren't they?

My guess is becuase flashing lights are typically reserved for emergency services (and things like road crews) only, so they were illegal to have on any vehicle, including bicycles.

monument · 05-08-2011 11:18AM

monument wrote: »

While other measures are on hold, the Department said flashing bicycle lights were made legal:
"The use of flashing lights (commonly used by many cyclists) has been illegal since they were introduced to the market in Ireland. The Minister has now signed the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 2009 which makes the use of these lights by cyclists legal."

-- From Department of Transport press release "Dempsey's Christmas Lights......and other good news for cyclists" on December 28, 2009.

Link to the SI: http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/esi/2009/B27243.pdf

Nanazolie · 05-08-2011 11:21AM

In most European countries, a hig viz (sorry about earlier typo) jacket is mandatory in the boot of your car, in case you have to stop on the side of the road and step out of your car (one per passenger). I cycle and drive, and when I drive on country roads, a bike, however strong its lights is, will always be more visible with a jacket or bands (the ones you stick to your bike).

And on unlit roads, it would actually be safer for pedestrians to use high viz jackets. Actually, I often see walkers / joggers wearing them. Buggies and strollers even have reflective bands, must be for a reason

Chips Lovell · 05-08-2011 11:21AM

ednwireland wrote: »

prob more todo with mobile speed cameras being introduced round the country (people arent speeding any more or less just being caught )

That's what I meant alright.

galwaycyclist · 05-08-2011 11:21AM

monument wrote: »

Link to the SI: http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/esi/2009/B27243.pdf

However as I recall they did not change the law that says the rear light can be no more than 18 inches from the back of the bike. So lights attached to your seat post are probably still illegal.

Nanazolie · 05-08-2011 11:23AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why? because they are totally unneeded. why aren't all clothes bright yellow, why don't all bikes have to be painted luminous orange, and cars and buses?

I assume anyone who wears one on a bike is incompetent and has to be treated with extra care tbh.

You're lucky to be only cycling in broad day light or on well-lit roads. Not everyone lives in urban areas.

monument · 05-08-2011 11:26AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

In most European countries, a hig viz (sorry about earlier typo) jacket is mandatory in the boot of your car, in case you have to stop on the side of the road and step out of your car (one per passenger). I cycle and drive, and when I drive on country roads, a bike, however strong its lights is, will always be more visible with a jacket or bands (the ones you stick to your bike).

And on unlit roads, it would actually be safer for pedestrians to use high viz jackets. Actually, I often see walkers / joggers wearing them. Buggies and strollers even have reflective bands, must be for a reason

I don't care that much if you're only talking about unlit country roads, but it would be a crazy general rule.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

However as I recall they did not change the law that says the rear light can be no more than 18 inches from the back of the bike. So lights attached to your seat post are probably still illegal.

I'm willing to see a judge about that one. Would be funny.

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 11:27AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

And on unlit roads, it would actually be safer for pedestrians to use high viz jackets. Actually, I often see walkers / joggers wearing them.

torch is the best option I find when I'm hiking. you can wave and flag it to make it obvious, a reflective strip / jacket is passive and can be easily mistaken for a piece of reflective road furniture like a sign and simply ignored.

Nanazolie wrote: »

Buggies and strollers even have reflective bands, must be for a reason

consumer perception that they add safety value is the only reason they are there, I would question whether there is any benefit in reality.

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 11:28AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

You're lucky to be only cycling in broad day light or on well-lit roads. Not everyone lives in urban areas.

where did I say that?

Even if I'm cycling in Wicklow in the dark I'll still wear all black. The lights are enough.

Lumen · 05-08-2011 11:29AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

You're lucky to be only cycling in broad day light or on well-lit roads. Not everyone lives in urban areas.

What on earth are you on about?

For some time now, probably almost since the invention of electricity, it has been possible to carry upon one's bicycle equipment designed for the purposes of illumination, commonly known as "lights".

Anyway, why don't cows wear hi-vis jackets and ankle straps?

Nanazolie · 05-08-2011 11:30AM

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=151174&f=57&h=0

Chips Lovell · 05-08-2011 11:30AM

If a motorist fails to spot a well lit bike on a unlit road, then they are driving without due care and attention.

Blaming the cyclist is the wrong approach.

Lumen · 05-08-2011 11:31AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=151174&f=57&h=0

I trust you carry a warning triangle on your bike, just in case you need to stop.

seamus · 05-08-2011 11:32AM

I think the most pertinent question to ask at this point is whether anyone can find any evidence to show that there is a reduction in collisions when both lights and high-vis are used, rather than just lights on their own.

And if so, why don't cars have high-vis strips?

Nanazolie · 05-08-2011 11:35AM

Lumen wrote: »

I trust you carry a warning triangle on your bike, just in case you need to stop.

No need for sarcasm... Up to you if you don't want to wear one. When studies show that most accidents involving bikes and pedestrians could be avoided just by these. Are you afraid it will ruin your good looks?

TinyExplosions · 05-08-2011 11:36AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

In most European countries, a hig viz (sorry about earlier typo) jacket is mandatory in the boot of your car, in case you have to stop on the side of the road and step out of your car (one per passenger). I cycle and drive, and when I drive on country roads, a bike, however strong its lights is, will always be more visible with a jacket or bands (the ones you stick to your bike).

I carry a high vis jacket in the rear pocket of my black jersey, along with my tools and a small triangle. That way, if I do have a breakdown at the side of the road, I can put the jacket on and set out the triangle. Otherwise, I just cycle as normal, and my lights make me perfectly visible.

Chips Lovell · 05-08-2011 11:37AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

No need for sarcasm... Up to you if you don't want to wear one. When studies show that most accidents involving bikes and pedestrians could be avoided just by these. Are you afraid it will ruin your good looks?

What studies?

seamus · 05-08-2011 11:37AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

When studies show that most accidents involving bikes and pedestrians could be avoided just by these.

[Citation Needed]

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 11:38AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=151174&f=57&h=0

they also drive on the right in Spain, should we copy that too?

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 11:40AM

Nanazolie wrote: »

No need for sarcasm... Up to you if you don't want to wear one. When studies show that most accidents involving bikes and pedestrians could be avoided just by these. Are you afraid it will ruin your good looks?

highlighted the key word, when studies show that then fine, but until then they can be safely ignored. Plenty of studies show that helmets, high viz, etc actually increase accident rates as car drivers take less care around cyclists due to the perception they are less vulnerable than otherwise...

Nanazolie · 05-08-2011 11:41AM

seamus wrote: »

[Citation Needed]

A study by the American Automobile Association found that of 400 interstate pedestrian fatalities, one third were drivers or passengers who had left their vehicles following an incident, and three-quarters of the fatalities occurred after dark.’

Same link previously posted

seamus · 05-08-2011 11:45AM

They're pedestrians.

This is the cycling forum. You claimed that studies showed that most accidents involving bikes could be avoided by wearing high-vis.

Again, show me the evidence that high-vis as a supplement to lights on the bike, leads to a reduction in collisions involving cyclists.

Nanazolie · 05-08-2011 11:45AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they also drive on the right in Spain, should we copy that too?

They drive everywhere on the right in Europe Mainland, but UK and Ireland. http://users.telenet.be/worldstandards/driving%20on%20the%20left.htm

Should traffic laws be further enforced for cyclists?

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