Is David Norris Toast?

later12 · 30-07-2011 08:10PM

anymore wrote: »

Well the original article was in 2002, I think, 9 years ago so I assume any action now would be statute barred. If HLB contacted Liveleine and discussed the matter again, then presumably she felt she was happy that she could stand over her article. I am not clear what exactly he is disputing - I understand he feels one particular word was totally incorrebt, other than that, I am not sure ?
As for engaging with his solicitor, what does that mean ?

like I said, there are a string of rebuttals on the Pat Kenny show. Some more credible than others. I have no idea what Norris meant when he said that the matter was in the hands of his solicitors. His campaign has now gone tits up, and a libel suit may not be completely out of the question once he resigns from seeking a nomination.

Harry Angstrom · 30-07-2011 08:44PM

Looks like Norris's toast has been cremated at this stage. I wonder will he resign his Seanad seat? Not very likely, given the track record of Irish politicians - necks like jockeys' wotsits the lot of them.

Yet another good reason to lock the doors of the stinking Seanad for good and throw the keys in the Liffey.

Undergod · 30-07-2011 08:51PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The 15 year old hasn't consented.

We seem to be agreeing, but I've no idea what you mean!

later12 · 30-07-2011 09:35PM

PDF of the letter now available.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf

later12 · 30-07-2011 09:37PM

Also, Norris says he is staying in the game. This can't end well, can it?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

Senator David Norris has said he will remain in the race for election as the next President, despite details emerging from a letter written to an Israeli court in 1997.
David Norris has told the Sunday Independent newspaper that he remains 'absolutely committed' to his campaign, despite the resignation of some senior members of his campaign team this weekend.
The controversy surrounding Mr Norris is believed to centre on a letter he sent to an Israeli court, seeking clemency for his former partner, Ezra Yizhak.
Mr Yizhak, who was Mr Norris' partner for many years, had been convicted of the statutory rape of a fifteen year-old boy and was awaiting sentence at the time.

Bock the Robber · 30-07-2011 09:46PM

later10 wrote: »

PDF of the letter now available.

The testimonials are on Oireachtas stationery, but the letter to the High Court appears to be on plain unheaded paper.

Undergod · 30-07-2011 09:50PM

later10 wrote: »

PDF of the letter now available.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf

Hmmm. Gonna have to read this and decide how I feel, it's interesting.

Godge · 30-07-2011 09:52PM

Bock the Robber wrote: »

The testimonials are on Oireachtas stationery, but the letter to the High Court appears to be on plain unheaded paper.

The third last word of the letter is Senator and extensive reference is made by Norris in the letter to his experience as a Senator, his topping the poll and his possible candidature for the Presidency. Peddling his influence for a friend.

Without knowing about this issue, I asked about 40 pages ago what was Mr. Norris' attitude to sexual relations between a 15-year old and a 40-year old because as a parent of teenagers I became concerned about his attitude to this issue. I now know the answer. No vote from me.

mikemac · 30-07-2011 10:13PM

Bobby Molly of the PD's resigned as a Minister for State and didn't go for reelection for less then this

Withdrawing from the race is the easy decision, I want to know when he is going to resign from the Senate

Or will he have a tough neck on him like Willie O'Dea or Flynn or a few others.
Norris is just another politician no better then the others

oppenheimer1 · 30-07-2011 10:42PM

David Norris wrote:

I am a serious and respected person, both within my own community and to some extent internationally

What an ego!

David Norris wrote:

I am a strong supporter of Israel

Ha! Yeah right... I guess there goes any chance of a ULA nomination now

later12 · 30-07-2011 10:47PM

How can Norris seriously expect to get 20 signatures now? Who would give them to him apart from Wallace and perhaps a handful of others from the backbench of hopelessness. It's a bizarre decision not to bow out of the Presidential campaign at this stage. I can only assume it is down to the lack of any senior campaign staff remaining, and perhaps an abundance of yes-men.

Middle Ireland would need to undergo pretty enormous paradigm shift with respect to sexual assault and/or intergenerational sex with minors over the next few days and weeks for Norris's campaign to enjoy any success.

later12 · 30-07-2011 10:59PM

In unrelated news (!!!), tonight's fundraiser for the Norris campaign has been cancelled.

http://www.norrisforpresident.ie/events/fundraising-event-decades-quiz

Maith an fear, now do that x 4 months

HarryPotter41 · 30-07-2011 11:13PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Starting to sound like Norris there.

Anyway, no I won't give it up. 15 and 16 year olds have sexual relations. Get over it.

As for the 40 year old man example, perhaps they're should be a tiered consent which happens in some countries.

The point I'm trying to convey is that 15 and 16 year olds can by and large give consent to have sexual relations. Many of them will tonight during the teen discos.

As you seem so aware of the laws you will be aware then of the recent case where an underage boy took a case to the high court when he was charged with having consensual sex with a 14yo girl when he was 15. He can be charged but the female cannot. Just because its happening doesn't change the laws. People commit murder, does that mean the laws on murder are flexible just because it happens?

Harry Angstrom · 30-07-2011 11:15PM

I saw on the 9 o'clock News, Norris said something along the lines of it being "many people's fate to love people who have defects". However, I really wonder if, deep down, Norris really believes his friend has any "defects", seeing as his interview with Helen Lucy Burke about the whole subject of pederasty was ambiguous to say the least?
Perhaps it should also be looked at in the context of his fairly ambivalent views on the Cathal O'Searcaigh situation as well?

JonathanAnon · 31-07-2011 03:16AM

It's shocking to think that

a) He is sending this letter on Senate header paper to give credence to a personal request which has nothing to do with his Senate work or the Irish State..
b) He spends Senate time and resources (both funded by the taxpayer) producing and sending the letter..

Also can somebody clarify whether he was in a relationship with Erza at the time he sent the letter

later12 · 31-07-2011 04:03AM

I think it;s impossible to say whether or not Senator Norris was in a relationship with Mr Nawi during his period of correspondence with the High Court at Jerusalem (although my own understanding is that they were still in a relationship c. 2000), but certainly it appears that Norris and Nawi were involved romantically after the 1992 conviction, yes.

Shea O'Meara · 31-07-2011 04:33AM

I believe their relationship was over some time prior to this letter, but it's of no matter to me.

There is nothing wrong with Norris defending or siding with his long time friend, however using his position as Senator to do so is at best questionable.
As a private citizen, he would have done no wrong, simply stood by a friend.
I do not think this is the kind of actions wanted from a person representing our country. I would not vote for him after this. He should keep his civic responsibility and private life seperately.

Peleus · 31-07-2011 04:59AM

I'm 21 years old and I have little interest in politics. But when I saw Norris was running for presidency I was happy that maybe we'll have a guy in power who actually gives a **** about us.

Look at the government system we have in place. The world's politicians seem to be all cheats and liars nowadays. I don't know why but i trust Norris' character. I know he's honest and most importantly intelligent. We need more people like him around. I don't see why we are singling him out like this and dragging his name down? How about instead of looking for the bad in people like David Norris, we support them and see how great they can be.

There are alot more unsavoury characters in the Dail.

Pompey Magnus · 31-07-2011 08:39AM

Peleus wrote: »

I'm 21 years old and I have little interest in politics. But when I saw Norris was running for presidency I was happy that maybe we'll have a guy in power who actually gives a **** about us.

Look at the government system we have in place. The world's politicians seem to be all cheats and liars nowadays. I don't know why but i trust Norris' character. I know he's honest and most importantly intelligent. We need more people like him around. I don't see why we are singling him out like this and dragging his name down? How about instead of looking for the bad in people like David Norris, we support them and see how great they can be.

There are alot more unsavoury characters in the Dail.

This episode has shown that he is no different to the rest, he took advantage of his position and influence so that he could help out a personal friend.

copacetic · 31-07-2011 08:48AM

JonathanAnon wrote: »

It's shocking to think that

a) He is sending this letter on Senate header paper to give credence to a personal request which has nothing to do with his Senate work or the Irish State..
b) He spends Senate time and resources (both funded by the taxpayer) producing and sending the letter..

Also can somebody clarify whether he was in a relationship with Erza at the time he sent the letter

He says himself that he wasn't. From today's independent:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-it-has-been-many-peoples-fate-to-love-people-who-have-defects-2836076.html

In an eloquent apologia for a set of actions that may be judged with a greater harshness than they deserve, Mr Norris told the Sunday Independent he and Nawi were in a relationship from 1975 to 1985 before they separated over Nawi's refusal to commit himself fully to Norris.

The offence occurred in 1992 and Nawi was convicted in 1997.

Norris said the context behind the reference was that "in 1997, I was in Tibet secretly writing a report on human rights abuses. When I got back home there was all this stuff from Ezra and his lawyers looking for a character reference so I wrote him a character reference".

The senator added: "People might ask why didn't I cut and run when I found out what this was. My Hebrew is very rudimentary.

"Initially I couldn't understand the evidence and for as long as I knew him his relationships were with adult men.''

In a compelling soliloquy, Mr Norris said that when the full truth emerged he was "shattered. But when you see someone drowning and their head surfaces, you don't push it back under. You pull them ashore and you confront them with what they have done".

He said the furore and the secretive internet campaign that sparked it were "guilt by association. I am not Ezra. I have never lived his lifestyle. I loved him. But it has been many people's fate to love people who have defects".

The senator also said his support for Nawi was influenced by a real fear that he would take his own life in the wake of the second trial.

copacetic · 31-07-2011 08:50AM

later10 wrote: »

I think it;s impossible to say whether or not Senator Norris was in a relationship with Mr Nawi during his period of correspondence with the High Court at Jerusalem (although my own understanding is that they were still in a relationship c. 2000), but certainly it appears that Norris and Nawi were involved romantically after the 1992 conviction, yes.

Have you got anything to back this up?

Benny_Cake · 31-07-2011 09:06AM

copacetic wrote: »

Have you got anything to back this up?

The Joe Jackson interview from 2002 seems to indicate that they had only recently broken up:

http://joejacksonjournalist.com/2010/09/06/david-norris-the-joe-jackson-interview/

macl · 31-07-2011 09:28AM

Norris cannot continue with his presidential bid.

- Norris says he is against the abuse of Children yet asks for his former partner to be let off abusing a minor??

- Using senate headed paper to write to the Israelis - wrong. You were put in office to represent Irish people. Not a convicted paedophile whom you have only personal ties with.

- Bobby Molly resigned for similar reasons when he wrote such a letter of representation.

- His support for Israel and Israel's law (as per his letter) is crazy. Israel has one of the worst human rights records. How could you align yourself to this when you profess to be a human rights activist in Ireland.

I was for Norris initially but this type of going on is maddening. To say there are others like him in Dail Eireann does not make any of this right. We're talking about our president! I hope he bows out of the presidential race and considers his position as a Senator.

durkadurka · 31-07-2011 09:42AM

Have to say he's lost my vote now. He won't get a nomination in any case at this stage.

Sunnyisland · 31-07-2011 09:45AM

As i have said in the other thread in AH,

I certainly will not be voting for him now.

cavedave · 31-07-2011 09:57AM

Peleus
How about instead of looking for the bad in people like X, we support them and see how great they can be.

Where X is Bertie Ahern, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy Rae, Charles Haughey and every Bishop who sought to reduce the consequences of one of their priests committing statutory rape.

How do you decide who is a good guy and a bad guy if not by their actions? "The world's politicians seem to be all cheats and liars nowadays. I don't know why but i trust X' character. I know he's honest and most importantly intelligent." How much do we know things when the evidence says different?

I like Norris. I would have voted for him. And now I have that damn CSI tune stuck in my head

UglyBolloxFace · 31-07-2011 10:45AM

I've been following this closely for awhile now, but there is something I can't make sense of; from the Sindo's website:

Senator Norris, who attended the original trial, stated as "factually incorrect" the "constant insistence" of the presiding judge that there was "absolutely no difference" between the case against Mr Yizhak and a similar case involving heterosexuals

(http://www.independent.ie/national-n...a-2836065.html)

Now, can anyone please explain to me what Norris means here? Is he actually trying to say that there IS a difference if the persons involved were heterosexual? What is your interpretation of this?

Bock the Robber · 31-07-2011 10:58AM

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Now, can anyone please explain to me what Norris means here? Is he actually trying to say that there IS a difference if the persons involved were heterosexual? What is your interpretation of this?

Well, for one thing, Israel at the time had two different ages of consent. For straight people it was 16 and for gays it was 18. That's a significant difference.

tayto lover · 31-07-2011 11:35AM

David Norris did great work for gay rights and human rights but there is no mention in letter for the rights of the victim of this rape. He even tried to say that his friend fell into a trap !! What is that about ?

Bock the Robber · 31-07-2011 11:36AM

tayto lover wrote: »

David Norris did great work for gay rights and human rights but there is no mention in letter for the rights of the victim of this rape. He even tried to say that his friend fell into a trap !! What is that about ?

It's about the way the police arrested him by pretending to be customers.

Is David Norris Toast?

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