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Is David Norris Toast?

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Comments

  • #902
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    hotmail.com says
    You mentioned that Norris' liberal voters don't understand child abuse or words to that effect. A pretty serious and incorrect assertion in my view.

    It seems though that more and more people are beginning to come to that realisation.
    Todays revelations are making people look once again at David Norris attitudes to pederasty and age of consent.


  • #903
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    This is a joke yeah? The worst section of society to grasp child abuse is the religious conservative right.

    What exactly is a mature acceptance of LGBT people?

    the HSE too have a shamefull record when it comes to issues of child abuse , neglect etc , no one wants to take responsibility for anything in this country , its not just the church who ( as an athiest ) ive no truck with btw


  • #904
    alan85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭alan85


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Perhaps you would like to mention 5 achievements of McAleese so (without googling, well google if you like, you won't find 5).

    5 specific achievements that have brought change to Ireland.

    No Googling. This is what comes to my mind:

    1. Engaged with unionists in the north and invited them to the áras.
    2. Hosted dignitaries with eloquence.
    3. Obviously reviewed incoming laws and took advice where necessary as was seen with the Banks Bill and Council of State.
    4. Demonstrated the role of women in Irish society on trips to assemblies where women were not held with regard.
    5. Represented Northern Nationalists (and maybe Unionists) and showed they have a place within the Republic as well as elsewhere.
    6. When in 4th year our class was invited to the áras to witness a foreign Ambassador be accepted. The ambassador subsequently attended our graduation at the end of the year. She was very inviting and friendly.


  • #905
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    I'm still non the wiser as to what you mean by a mature acceptance of LGBT people.

    You mentioned that Norris' liberal voters don't understand child abuse or words to that effect. A pretty serious and incorrect assertion in my view.
    I'm not reading that in his/her post. I'm reading that we should look at 40 year olds sexually assaulting 15 year olds in the same way, regardless of sexual orientation. I wouldn't associate with an individual who sexually assaults a 15 year old, I certainly wouldn't date such an individual - this story raises some serious questions about Norris's ethical stance on sex with minors in a more serious way than has happened in the past.

    Ladbrokes have lengthened Norris's chances from 7/4 to 8/1 - that's quite a change in a 24 hour period.


  • #906
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    later10 wrote: »
    I'm not reading that in his/her post. I'm reading that we should look at 40 year olds sexually assaulting 15 year olds in the same way, regardless of sexual orientation. I wouldn't associate with an individual who sexually assaults a 15 year old, I certainly wouldn't date such an individual - this story raises some serious questions about Norris's ethical stance on sex with minors in a more serious way than has happened in the past.

    Ladbrokes have lengthened Norris's chances from 7/4 to 8/1 - that's quite a change in a 24 hour period.

    In some countries the age of consent is 13. At 15 do you not think people are able to make their mind up about sexual relations?


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  • #907
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    Just listening to Rachel English talking about this.. (as an aside I loved the way she called Thomas Byrne when he was taking the high ground there :D .. she's great.. )

    David Norris seems to dive for cover every time a story like this arises.. And this really doesnt help his case..


  • #908
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    character wrote: »
    All fair enough - but none of this explains why he should be disqualified from an election which he would do well in, because the old establishment have rules designed to remain in power. My concern isn't for Norris, it's that we reform our overall electoral system. And since we have an election in October for President, it's not a bad place to start!

    I understand the point you are making. But I would make the point that a lot of Norris's support derives from the massive exposure that he has received in the media over the last 15 years and much of this support has come from issues which have little to do with politics. He has, I suggest, had a significant advantage over other candidates and has gotten this without ever really having had too much grilling over issues. He is in some ways, to my mind, a kind of 'Bertie Ahern' character in so far as he can get a lot of exposure without too much analysis of his positions.


  • #909
    alan85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭alan85


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    In some countries the age of consent is 13. At 15 do you not think people are able to make their mind up about sexual relations?
    Whether it be 13 or 18 should you not be seen to respect the law of the land? Whether it's morally acceptable is another issue. To most a 40 year old having sex with a young teen even if it were legally O.K. would not be acceptable.


  • #910
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    alan85 wrote: »
    No Googling. This is what comes to my mind:

    1. Engaged with unionists in the north and invited them to the áras.
    2. Hosted dignitaries with eloquence.
    3. Obviously reviewed incoming laws and took advice where necessary as was seen with the Banks Bill and Council of State.
    4. Demonstrated the role of women in Irish society on trips to assemblies where women were not held with regard.
    5. Represented Northern Nationalists (and maybe Unionists) and showed they have a place within the Republic as well as elsewhere.
    6. When in 4th year our class was invited to the áras to witness a foreign Ambassador be accepted. The ambassador subsequently attended our graduation at the end of the year. She was very inviting and friendly.

    These are all vague general statements about her presidency. Nothing tangible.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Mary and I think she's a nice lady. I'm just trying to emphasise the pointlessness of the presidency in Ireland. It's not her fault.


  • #911
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    David Norris sought clemency - on official Oireachtas note paper - for his partner in the early 1990s. These papers were leaked by the Israeli embassy. This is why the resignations are happening.

    Source - RTE Radio now


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  • #912
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    In some countries the age of consent is 13. At 15 do you not think people are able to make their mind up about sexual relations?

    So, you think it would be alright for a 40 year old man to engage in sexual relations with a 15 year old girl? Because it seems to me from what you've just stated here that you think there's not much wrong with a 40 year old man having sex with a 15 year old boy.

    Double standards anyone? :rolleyes:


  • #913
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    RTE RAdio 1 - didn't catch the lady's name on now but:

    1. Norris wrote to Israeli authorities looking for clemency for his ex-partner in the the 1992 case against him on Oireachtas paper
    2. Israeli Embassy source of letters
    3. Campaign team very disappointed he didn't disclose this
    4. Mail on Sunday will have the story and letters, Sunday indo will have a Norris interview


  • #914
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    alan85 wrote: »
    Whether it be 13 or 18 should you not be seen to respect the law of the land? Whether it's morally acceptable is another issue. To most a 40 year old having sex with a young teen even if it were legally O.K. would not be acceptable.

    I accept that, but in fairness I wasn't talking about the law. Is it not a fair point of discussion that 15 year olds should be able to have sexual relations if they want to?


  • #915
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    gambiaman wrote: »
    RTE RAdio 1 - didn't catch the lady's name on now but:

    Elaine Byrne.. http://elaine.ie/


  • #916
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Pretty remarkable that an elected Oireachtas member would make representations in a case of sexual assault on a minor, in his official capacity as an elected representative in this state. This is a very serious matter, and should be a resigning offence if Norris has any dignity left.


  • #917
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    So, you think it would be alright for a 40 year old man to engage in sexual relations with a 15 year old girl? Because it seems to me from what you've just stated here that you think there's not much wrong with a 40 year old man having sex with a 15 year old boy.

    Double standards anyone? :rolleyes:

    Where are you getting this boy/girl comparison? What are you on about.

    Do you not think it's acceptable for 15 year olds to make their own mind up about sexual relations?


  • #918
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    later10 wrote: »
    This is a very serious matter, and should be a resigning offence if Norris has any dignity left.

    When you consider what Trevor Sargent resigned for..


  • #919
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    later10 wrote: »
    Pretty remarkable that an elected Oireachtas member would make representations in a case of sexual assault on a minor, in his official capacity as an elected representative in this state. This is a very serious matter, and should be a resigning offence if Norris has any dignity left.


    I have to agree - God, do I have to buy the Mail tomorrow?? :eek:;)


  • #920
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Norris is some tit. Not a danger to anyone but totally lacks wit (except in his own mind) and good political judgement. Therefore cannot be considered a safe choice for the role of President (as mickey mouse a role as it is in most respects).


  • #921
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Do you not think it's acceptable for 15 year olds to make their own mind up about sexual relations?
    What would you think of a 40 year old man dating - and having sex with - a girl studying for her junior cert?


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  • #922
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    JonathanAnon wrote: »
    When you consider what Trevor Sargent resigned for..

    Sargent didn't resign from the Dail.


  • #923
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    later10 wrote: »
    What would you think of a 40 year old man dating - and having sex with - a girl studying for her junior cert?

    That's not for me to say. I generally think that 15 year olds can make their own minds up about having sex.


  • #924
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Sargent didn't resign from the Dail.

    The electorate sorted that ^


  • #925
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    That's not for me to say. I generally think that 15 year olds can make their own minds up about having sex.
    So generally you think it would be fine for a man of 40 years to engage in a sexual relationship with a girl studying for her Junior Cert?


  • #926
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    So, you think it would be alright for a 40 year old man to engage in sexual relations with a 15 year old girl? Because it seems to me from what you've just stated here that you think there's not much wrong with a 40 year old man having sex with a 15 year old boy.

    Double standards anyone? :rolleyes:

    The age of consent in Israel for homosexuals was 18 this was only changed in 2000 to be 16 to have parity with the age of consent for heterosexuals.

    Thus far we don't know the age of the teenager in the case in 1992.


  • #927
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    later10 wrote: »
    So generally you think it would be fine for a man of 40 years to engage in a sexual relationship with a girl studying for her Junior Cert?


    Why are you mentioning the junior cert? That's twice you've mentioned it. Odd.

    Anyway, I'll repeat, I believe 15 year olds can make their own minds up about their sex lives.


  • #928
    Teclo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭Teclo


    The shame is that this wonderful republic of ours was prepared (and maybe still is) to elect a president who was happy to share his bed with a paedophile.


  • #929
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,028 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    That's not for me to say. I generally think that 15 year olds can make their own minds up about having sex.

    Not according to the law they can't.
    You need to get a grip if you think that. Wait until you have 15 year old children and come back and let us know if there's 40 year old men sniffing around them.


  • #930
    alan85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭alan85


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    That's not for me to say. I generally think that 15 year olds can make their own minds up about having sex.
    Possibly. But when the law says no and if you do it anyway you take the consequences.

    It's a grey area. Some 15 years olds may be ready and others not so. The law should be there to protect those that aren't ready and may be taken advantage of. So the question may asked: Should we just ignore the possibility of a young person agreeing to sex with a much older, sexually mature person through grooming and them not being ready or should we have a law that protects all from that possibility?

    Anyway, that's a romantic spin on the story. He could have violently raped a young teen for all we know on the matter...


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  • #931
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Why are you mentioning the junior cert? That's twice you've mentioned it. Odd.
    To underline the fact that a 15 year old is someone in the junior stages of development, of education and of sexual and psychological maturity.

    The Cloyne report deals with cases of sexual assault against 15 year olds - are you saying that the Cloyne report is blowing such cases of sexual assault out of proportion, generally?


This discussion has been closed.
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