Is David Norris Toast?

anymore · 30-07-2011 11:54AM

Bock the Robber wrote: »

Nor did I suggest you did. I'm just asking a question. Where did this stuff about Nawi come from? Do you have a link to details?

No I am jsut follwing the story on/in the media.
Just remembered, there was a post here a say or two ago on the subject which was removed - it had some links but I didnt really take too much notice.

Sierra Oscar · 30-07-2011 11:55AM

Bock the Robber wrote: »

Nor did I suggest you did. I'm just asking a question. Where did this stuff about Nawi come from? Do you have a link to details?

Probably from someone on the Norris campaign team. One of the Sunday papers is probably going to run a devastating story and people in the Norris campaign have sussed the research going on and have jumped ship early.

Just my speculation, but that's what I reckon.

later12 · 30-07-2011 12:02PM

Those who have supported Norris's nomination are now asking for 'clarififcation' according to RTE News - something I'm sure everyone would appreciate. Again.

alan85 · 30-07-2011 12:05PM

The two men have remained close friends and continue to meet regularly and are in frequent phone contact.

I heard Norris on TodayPK the other day and he was asked about having a partner. He said he hadn't got one. I just wonder if he has put distance between him and his 'ex'-partner for the sake of his campaign?

I think it's a joke that Norris is going for President. The fact that he was on 'Living with Lucy' should preclude him straight away. Only a ***kin' mupp*t would do that show and prance around in a toga and expect to hold a very dignified office!

anymore · 30-07-2011 12:05PM

zuroph wrote: »

Im just curious, why bring that quote over? Are we to put more trust in it because the guy owns a website? The speculation and dodgy sources ive seen over there with regards this story is offputting to say the least.

Campaign team seem to be alluding that there is more to come in this tale. Will wait and see

David Cochrane is a name that is now part of the ' media and the news paper/radio/tv industry is quite happy to refer to and quote both he and his website when it wishes to. So why not quote him ? Your last comment could be applied to any website. As far as trusting him and his own personal stories are concerned, I would choose to trust him before I would trust, to give an example, the Sunday Independent. In fact the guy seems to do his best to remain detached.

Harry Angstrom · 30-07-2011 12:08PM

I love the way that David Norris's supporters are trying to spin this once more as if there's some concerted and organised campaign against him. Not surprisingly he's gone to ground again, refusing to take a call from Claire Byrne on RTE radio :rolleyes:

zuroph · 30-07-2011 12:15PM

anymore wrote: »

zuroph wrote: »

Im just curious, why bring that quote over? Are we to put more trust in it because the guy owns a website? The speculation and dodgy sources ive seen over there with regards this story is offputting to say the least.

Campaign team seem to be alluding that there is more to come in this tale. Will wait and see

David Cochrane is a name that is now part of the ' media and the news paper/radio/tv industry is quite happy to refer to and quote both he and his website when it wishes to. So why not quote him ? Your last comment could be applied to any website. As far as trusting him and his own personal stories are concerned, I would choose to trust him before I would trust, to give an example, the Sunday Independent. In fact the guy seems to do his best to remain detached.

I wouldnt trust, however, the original poster of the blog resting to Ezra, as he is known across a number of websites as a pro Israeli propaganda spreader.
Im just looking for more solid information instead of speculation.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 12:16PM

alan85 wrote: »

I heard Norris on TodayPK the other day and he was asked about having a partner. He said he hadn't got one. I just wonder if he has put distance between him and his 'ex'-partner for the sake of his campaign?

I think it's a joke that Norris is going for President. The fact that he was on 'Living with Lucy' should preclude him straight away. Only a ***kin' mupp*t would do that show and prance around in a toga and expect to hold a very dignified office!

Since when did it become a dignified office? The president opens schools and makes the odd speech.

Plenty of politicians have appeared on similar reality programmes.

If Norris does drop out, lots of people that can't stand his gayness will be happy, that makes me sad. Aw well.

I presume Michael D. will benefit most from a Norris withdrawal.

lods · 30-07-2011 12:16PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Probably from someone on the Norris campaign team. One of the Sunday papers is probably going to run a devastating story and people in the Norris campaign have sussed the research going on and have jumped ship early.

Just my speculation, but that's what I reckon.

The Mail will be running the story & the Indo his defence

kn · 30-07-2011 12:17PM

All the information re Nawi, his conviction for sodomy with a child (which he confirmed in the Irish Times today) as well as other convictions for drugs and firearms offences as well indecent exposure etc all came out of the below politics.ie thread last Wednesday night. That is where the mainstream media got this story.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/166404-what-has-david-norris-ever-done-5.html

later12 · 30-07-2011 12:20PM

Apparently the minimum age of consent is 16 years in Israel, and has been so since 1977.

That would imply that when Ezra Nawi was 40, he was having sex with an individual who was 15 or less, when did the relationship between Norris and Nawi end? I know they have been friends up until recently...

anymore · 30-07-2011 12:23PM

zuroph wrote: »

I wouldnt trust, however, the original poster of the blog resting to Ezra, as he is known across a number of websites as a pro Israeli propaganda spreader.
Im just looking for more solid information instead of speculation.

The solid facts are two of Norris's key campaign officials have resigned and other supporters have abandoned the cause. Norris is not answering questions. The TDs who were supporting him are calling for clarification.
This is not the work of some blogger but presumably is refelction of the way Norris is dealing with an issue which has been raised.Mr Norris himself has used his position as a Senator to put down a motion in relation to a an acquintence/ friend of his.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/FOJ/2009/05/20/00004.asp

expectationlost · 30-07-2011 12:23PM

haaretz is a decent source http://www.haaretz.com/news/leftist-jailed-for-1-month-for-assaulting-police-in-west-bank-1.5708 and it mentions it

of course one would need further detail, is separate to his activism charges

zuroph · 30-07-2011 12:27PM

expectationlost wrote: »

haaretz is a decent source http://www.haaretz.com/news/leftist-jailed-for-1-month-for-assaulting-police-in-west-bank-1.5708 and it mentions it

of course one would need further detail, is separate to his activism charges

Yes, ive seen these, and theyre linked as the wiki citations. Would prefer to see something about the actual conviction though.
Im not defending, I just dont wish to speculate without facts. The fact that his campaign team are leaving is worrying.

Ambersky · 30-07-2011 12:29PM

I believe that while the liberal support for David Norris was well intentioned it showed that we haven’t yet fully grasped as a nation what child protection and abuse is all about.
To my mind the protection of children and vulnerable young adults has to be accepted by the church, by parents, by politicians and legislators as a first principle.
It is a principle so basic that it is something about which reputations and careers will stand or fall.

Tourist underage sex is just immoral and it is no more acceptable for gay men with vulnerable youths than it is for straight men to have sex with 15 year old girls while on holidays.

A mature acceptance of LGBT people would be one that expected and allowed for the same amount of critical analysis of its members behaviour and beliefs as anyone else.

alan85 · 30-07-2011 12:31PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Since when did it become a dignified office? The president opens schools and makes the odd speech.

Plenty of politicians have appeared on similar reality programmes.

If Norris does drop out, lots of people that can't stand his gayness will be happy, that makes me sad. Aw well.

I presume Michael D. will benefit most from a Norris withdrawal.

You talk tosh... What about Mary Robinson's work on Human Rights and the stepping stone it was for her to the U.N.? Pres. Mary McAleese and her work on relations up North? Very dignified people! Any politicans with a shed of dignity and eloquence would be very economical about giving time to such shows.

Regards the issue of homosexuality. That's a load of tosh! I'd love to see a gay President but not Norris. He doesn't appeal to me nor reflect my Irishness I feel. But I would not hold being a homosexual against him. In fact, it would be progression. If anything, I would hold against him the fact he calls himself Christian... I find that sad.

anymore · 30-07-2011 12:32PM

later10 wrote: »

Apparently the minimum age of consent is 16 years in Israel, and has been so since 1977.

That would imply that when Ezra Nawi was 40, he was having sex with an individual who was 15 or less, when did the relationship between Norris and Nawi end? I know they have been friends up until recently...

If this were true, then it will be linked to the wider question of relations between older men and young teens which has been discussed in the past.

Sierra Oscar · 30-07-2011 12:42PM

Looks like things will certainly become clearer with tomorrows papers.

@rosswhitakertv Those of us in campaign became aware of the issues yesterday and this morning. A newspaper will be publishing details 2moro.

Declan Harmon Twitter

Ambersky · 30-07-2011 12:44PM

To support someone just because they are gay
despite things that you would consider unacceptable from a heterosexual
is not being supportive of gays.

Being put on a pedestal for being gay
is much like being put down because your gay.
Its just two sides of the same coin.
It Is Not Equality.

anymore · 30-07-2011 12:49PM

character wrote: »

Norris does well in opinion polls and is a popular figure - not to everyone, but still popular. What sort of democracy is it if we have a presidential race and exclude the guy who might win it because he doesn't fit the normal profile? My blog on it here...http://tiny.cc/bionk

character, we have the type of democracy that David Norris was part and parcel of for twenty years or so and draws a handsome living from for part time ' work'. We have the kind of democracy where Mr Norris can use his position to put down a motion in supprt of a foreign national living outside of Ireland who he just so happened to be in a relationship with in the past. Mr Norris is an establishment figure. As far as I can see, Mr Norris''s profile isnt at all unusual for an irish politician.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 12:50PM

alan85 wrote: »

You talk tosh... What about Mary Robinson's work on Human Rights and the stepping stone it was for her to the U.N.? Pres. Mary McAleese and her work on relations up North? Very dignified people! Any politicans with a shed of dignity and eloquence would be very economical about giving time to such shows.

Regards the issue of homosexuality. That's a load of tosh! I'd love to see a gay President but not Norris. He doesn't appeal to me nor reflect my Irishness I feel. But I would not hold being a homosexual against him. In fact, it would be progression. If anything, I would hold against him the fact he calls himself Christian... I find that sad.

What exactly has McAleese done that was so great in relation to the North? Very little as I can see, because she's has no tangible power. We can go 6 months without seeing or hearing from McAleese. So let's not exaggerate the position of the president or indeed the legacy of McAleese's term in office.

A lot of people are bothered by Norris' campness and gayness, a poster has already made a comment about his campness today.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 12:52PM

Ambersky wrote: »

I believe that while the liberal support for David Norris was well intentioned it showed that we haven’t yet fully grasped as a nation what child protection and abuse is all about.
To my mind the protection of children and vulnerable young adults has to be accepted by the church, by parents, by politicians and legislators as a first principle.
It is a principle so basic that it is something about which reputations and careers will stand or fall.
We can no longer tolerate adults abusing their positions of power to take advantage of children and vulnerable adults.
Neither should we tolerate those who support verbally practically or politically those who abuse.
David Norris made statements about pederasty and age of consent which were unacceptable in this day and age.
Defending older men travelling abroad and having sex with disadvantaged youths who would be under age in their home countries is also an idefensible behaviour.
Tourist underage sex is just immoral and it is not acceptable for gay men with vulnerable youths just as it is unacceptable for straight men to have sex with 15 year old girls while on holidays.

A mature acceptance of LGBT people would be one that expected and allowed for the same amount of critical analysis of its members behaviour and beliefs as anyone else.

This is a joke yeah? The worst section of society to grasp child abuse is the religious conservative right.

What exactly is a mature acceptance of LGBT people?

alan85 · 30-07-2011 12:59PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

What exactly has McAleese done that was so great in relation to the North? Very little as I can see, because she's has no tangible power. We can go 6 months without seeing or hearing from McAleese. So let's not exaggerate the position of the president or indeed the legacy of McAleese's term in office.

A lot of people are bothered by Norris' campness and gayness, a poster has already made a comment about his campness today.

Have you reviewed her schedule on an hour by hour basis?! I don't hear much about the Attorney General nor the Minister for the Envirnoment on a regular basis. Shall we just assume they do nothing? Or shall we just assume they do what we percieve them to do? Sign off on a bit of legal advice to a Minister and the other set up a few forests to offset our carbon footprint...

Speak sense would ya!

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:01PM

alan85 wrote: »

Have you reviewed her schedule on an hour by hour basis?! I don't hear much about the Attorney General nor the Minister for the Envirnoment on a regular basis. Shall we just assume they do nothing? Or shall we just assume they do what we percieve them to do? Sign off on a bit of legal advice to a Minister and the other set up a few forests to offset our carbon footprint...

Speak sense would ya!

Perhaps you would like to mention 5 achievements of McAleese so (without googling, well google if you like, you won't find 5).

5 specific achievements that have brought change to Ireland.

Ambersky · 30-07-2011 01:02PM

hotmail.com said
This is a joke yeah? The worst section of society to grasp child abuse is the religious conservative right.
What exactly is a mature acceptance of LGBT people?

hotmail it is not a competition to see who is the worst section of society in grasping the seriousness of child abuse and the taking advantage of vulnerable youths.
A mature acceptance of LGBT people would understand this.
It would not respond with a knee jerk - the church is worse- anytime there is criticism of an older gay man taking sexual advantage of a vulnerable youth.
It would expect the same standard of behaviour from all sections of society.

anymore · 30-07-2011 01:03PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

This is a joke yeah? The worst section of society to grasp child abuse is the religious conservative right.

What exactly is a mature acceptance of LGBT people?

Look this whole issue is difficult and complex one and sometimes it is easier to avoid discussing aspects of it. It seems to be the case that a fair proportion of the ' religous right' would seem to be gay itself ! Maybe it is a case of ' self hate'.

anymore · 30-07-2011 01:05PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Perhaps you would like to mention 5 achievements of McAleese so (without googling, well google if you like, you won't find 5).

5 specific achievements that have brought change to Ireland.

Perhaps it is no harm to remind ourself occassionally that due to the restricted nature of the Presidency itself, it is not the role of Presidents to bring about change in Ireland !

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:06PM

Ambersky wrote: »

hotmail it is not a competition to see who is the worst section of society in grasping the seriousness of child abuse and the taking advantage of vulnerable youths.
A mature acceptance of LGBT people would understand this.
It would not respond with a knee jerk - the church is worse- anytime there is criticism of an older gay man taking sexual advantage of a vulnerable youth.
It would expect the same standard of behaviour from all sections of society.

I'm still non the wiser as to what you mean by a mature acceptance of LGBT people.

You mentioned that Norris' liberal voters don't understand child abuse or words to that effect. A pretty serious and incorrect assertion in my view.

character · 30-07-2011 01:07PM

anymore wrote: »

character, we have the type of democracy that David Norris was part and parcel of for twenty years or so and draws a handsome living from for part time ' work'. We have the kind of democracy where Mr Norris can use his position to put down a motion in supprt of a foreign national living outside of Ireland who he just so happened to be in a relationship with in the past. Mr Norris is an establishment figure. As far as I can see, Mr Norris''s profile isnt at all unusual for an irish politician.

All fair enough - but none of this explains why he should be disqualified from an election which he would do well in, because the old establishment have rules designed to remain in power. My concern isn't for Norris, it's that we reform our overall electoral system. And since we have an election in October for President, it's not a bad place to start!

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:09PM

anymore wrote: »

Perhaps it is no harm to remind ourself occassionally that due to the restricted nature of the Presidency itself, it is not the role of Presidents to bring about change in Ireland !

That's why I'm asking the poster to list 5 achievements. Someone made the point that the office is a "dignified" one.

Rubbish - the president plants trees, shakes a few hands, goes to football matches etc etc.

Is David Norris Toast?

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