Just lost respect for Kenny

anymore · 15-07-2011 01:45PM

DexyDrain wrote: »

For sure, the Russians or Churchill or the Japanese, we could look in lots of places for examples, just not at our own pre-election opposition, media and celeb/ego economists. That's my point.

Here's what an alaysis of the Swedish banking, budgetary and financial crisis of the early 90's, which was very similar to our own both in how it originated and in how it was managed, had to say:

"On top of this—and perhaps the most important factor— there was political consensus. The government sought and received backing from the main opposition party. That party was also allowed to appoint Board members of the Bank Support Authority so that it could be continuously informed and influence decisions. That was important both for political legitimacy at home and for credibility abroad—investors could be sure that the system we had created would be upheld even if there were a change in government."

http://www.riksbank.se/templates/speech.aspx?id=1752

We did not have this. Once the government decided to adopt the only proven solutions to such crises from experience in Sweden and in Asia and the path was set down, the Dail should have committed to it. Instead, We had opposition salivating at the prospect of seats at the cabinet table and a knife in the back of FF. We were completely let down by them. Anyone trying to calm the situation was ridiculed and told to f off. We just didn't know how to handle ourselves in a crisis any more than in a boom.

The only point I would take issue with is that there is a precedent in Irish politics for dealing with an economic crisis and that is the famous Tallaght Strategy.

bijapos · 15-07-2011 06:02PM

A bit OT but it seems Kenny isn't going to show up at the Connacht Final on Sunday, claiming family reasons. I've no idea why he does this, its disappointing to say the least, if he showed up at the match he would get 5-10 mins of booing but instead it seems like he is in hiding.

A few days ago he avoided questions on Roscommon hospital and the Mitchell vote after the memorial ceremony for war dead citing the "solemnity of the occasion", this time he is using his family as an excuse. He had such high ratings in the polls but seems like he is just shooting himself in the foot recently.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/news/ireland/kenny-to-swerve-connacht-final-512950.html

anymore · 15-07-2011 10:43PM

bijapos wrote: »

A bit OT but it seems Kenny isn't going to show up at the Connacht Final on Sunday, claiming family reasons. I've no idea why he does this, its disappointing to say the least, if he showed up at the match he would get 5-10 mins of booing but instead it seems like he is in hiding.

A few days ago he avoided questions on Roscommon hospital and the Mitchell vote after the memorial ceremony for war dead citing the "solemnity of the occasion", this time he is using his family as an excuse. He had such high ratings in the polls but seems like he is just shooting himself in the foot recently.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/news/ireland/kenny-to-swerve-connacht-final-512950.html

He does have a history of going to ground when the going gets tough - remember how he was hidden away for much of the General election. It is not very eddifying.

rodento · 16-07-2011 02:48PM

You know FF would happily have your back in the fold:D

Liam Byrne · 16-07-2011 07:09PM

rodento wrote: »

You know FF would happily have your back in the fold:D

Is that directed at me?

If so, I have two points to make.

If that isn't a typo, then the only people whose back FF have are their corrupt top-level self-serving (let's avoid a ban) individuals.

If it is a typo and you meant "have you back" I can proudly state that they never had me to "have me back" since my reaching voting age coincided with Haughey and his ethos of corruption, and so they've never been an option for me.

And that was even before they completely ruined the country.

rodento · 16-07-2011 07:21PM

My apologies

Thought you only voted FG to get FF out and were at one stage an FF'r

Was shoked it took you so long to lose faith in kenny:eek:

Liam Byrne · 16-07-2011 08:29PM

rodento wrote: »

My apologies

Thought you only voted FG to get FF out and were at one stage an FF'r

Was shoked it took you so long to lose faith in kenny:eek:

Apology - just about - accepted because it's the worst insult I've been targetted with in quite a while.

Go wash your mouth out with soap and we'll call it quits.

unimpressed · 18-07-2011 05:56PM

I have read many posts on various blogs and web sites and now firmly believe all our politicians and public people are just puppets of a monetary system that needs everyone to borrow and pay interest in order to instill the fear of loss on us. It will not mater who is in charge if we dont remember they only have the power we allow them to have. Why should we beg and feel beholden to the people WE elect to look after our wider interests ??? When did we decide to accept language like "The ordinary people of this country" from the ORDINARY people we supposedly elected from the mass of the people. Wake up Ireland it is not about FF FG SF or any other party it is about the now accepted idea that there is a them and us.

Monty Burnz · 18-07-2011 06:02PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

You voted for FG? How could you not know that it would be more of the same? Seemed obvious to me, FF and FG are the exact same except one sides great grandads signed the treaty.

Well, that and the fact that one of them is riddled with corruption from top to bottom and the other one boots out anyone who is caught with hands in the cookie jar (Lowry for example).

And FFailure are a lot more socially conservative.

So not the exact same for my money. But they were never going to be the radicals that we needed in this situation - while the ULA and SF with their fantasy economics would have been a bit too radical.

sanbrafyffe · 18-07-2011 06:13PM

well to be quiet honest lads you can say what u want abut kenny but at the end of the day we are meeting the imf/eu requirements,,,,,and olly rehn is now saying that our bailout rate should now be reduced,,,,,so it was always going to be tough but hes doing it,,,,,,if we can keep going the way we are we wont need anymore funding and we can get back into the markets,,,,

anymore · 18-07-2011 06:14PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well, that and the fact that one of them is riddled with corruption from top to bottom and the other one boots out anyone who is caught with hands in the cookie jar (Lowry for example).

And FFailure are a lot more socially conservative.

So not the exact same for my money. But they were never going to be the radicals that we needed in this situation - while the ULA and SF with their fantasy economics would have been a bit too radical.

And what about TDs or Councillors who been found to be cheating their tax ? Did not the question of that come up recently and what was the response from the Mighty Kenny ?

Monty Burnz · 18-07-2011 06:22PM

anymore wrote: »

And what about TDs or Councillors who been found to be cheating their tax ? Did not the question of that come up recently and what was the response from the Mighty Kenny ?

If you link to the cases, perhaps we can find out?

end a eknny · 18-07-2011 08:06PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I don't think I ever said that they'd be much better.......just that they were less corrupt, which was an improvement.

But I did say at the time that that alone wouldn't be enough.

I'm seriously at a loss as to where this country is likely to go; unlike some others in this thread I cannot stomach SF as a viable option because of their double-standards re violence and because they have absolutely no idea of real economics having come from a subsidised statelet......and of course I also believe that they shouldn't be in the Dáil since they refuse to call this country by name, waffling on about 26 counties.

Basically they are still pandering to their core support, and while they stick with that they are completely at odds with my views.

But are they seriously looking like a possible option for the next election ? Just as FF's corruption and incompetence and anti-ordinary people mindset caused people to turn to FG & Labour (despite their obvious limitations), will FG & Labour's incompetence and anti-ordinary people mindset drive them to an SF that isn't good for the country either ?

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

nesf · 18-07-2011 08:12PM

end a eknny wrote: »

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

It's simple for SF in the south to maintain their principles, they've never had to govern. When they've governed for a few years come back to me about them being able to stick to their principles.

rodento · 18-07-2011 09:54PM

It'll be interesting to see how SF manage their dual mandate, with massive austerity cuts on the cards in the north.

nesf · 18-07-2011 10:03PM

rodento wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how SF manage their dual mandate, with massive austerity cuts on the cards in the north.

I guarantee you they'll be cutting in the North while decrying the need for cuts in the South, hoping that people don't notice.

Liam Byrne · 18-07-2011 10:28PM

end a eknny wrote: »

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

:rolleyes: I've no problem with someone sticking to their principles, as long as those principles are honourable.

Collecting murderers from jail and screaming for justice for only their supporters doesn't instil confidence........if I was ever victimised they'd refuse to stand up for me because I wasn't one of them.

FF "stick to their principles" too.....but since those principles are also at odds with a fair society I don't support them either.

If a local drug dealer "sticks to his principles" that it's OK to murder anyone else selling drugs, am I supposed to support him for simply "sticking to his principles", or am I not allowed point out that those principles sicken me ?

Dannyboy83 · 19-07-2011 01:54AM

end a eknny wrote: »

sinn fein come from a subsidised statelet really!!!!!!! i thought they were the oldest party in ireland and the only all ireland party. your biggest problem with sinn fein is that unlike other parties they stick to their principles

They don't tho.
In order for Sinn Fein to achieve a majority, the majority would have to vote them in spite of who they are, not because of who they are.

I don't hold it against the Greens that they went into coalition with FF.
That's just pragmatism imo.
Of course, the electorate should have been able to recall the TDs, if so desired, because the party lied to get into power, it was a clear reversal of their pre-election commitment. That would be democratic.

I do hold it against them however, that they kept Fianna Fail in power for so long, when it was abundantly clear to the rest of the country that Fianna Fail were not up to the task (Taoiseach had the lowest ratings ever), and consequently, we have this lovely strait jacket to wear.
That decision was made by the party and it's members, not by the electorate.
That is not democratic.

Our political system is unbalanced.
Too much caveat emptor for the electorate;
an appalling lack of the same for the elected.

syklops · 19-07-2011 05:04PM

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

well to be quiet honest lads you can say what u want abut kenny but at the end of the day we are meeting the imf/eu requirements,,,,,and olly rehn is now saying that our bailout rate should now be reduced,,,,,so it was always going to be tough but hes doing it,,,,,,if we can keep going the way we are we wont need anymore funding and we can get back into the markets,,,,

Dont let the big picture get in the way of a rant.

CommuterIE · 19-07-2011 08:07PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Enda Kenny was asked why they are paying €800 million to UNSECURED/UNGUARANTEED bondholders, and waffled on about realities.

We elected you to be fair to and represent the Irish people, and paying out stuff that you have no legal obligation to do is unacceptable.

Values of investments go up or down; investors know that.

Cop on and stop throwing our money away, or else resign.

Your party did not get a vote from me to continue FF's waste.

LMAO, I'm not really sure if you know how the world works my friend!

Anyway, Enda should not have promised no Social Welfare cuts or Tax Increases in the next budget.... they are simply waiting for the IMF to do the dirty work so the government can blame them...

Dannyboy83 · 20-07-2011 10:41AM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Anyway, Enda should not have promised no Social Welfare cuts or Tax Increases in the next budget.... they are simply waiting for the IMF to do the dirty work so the government can blame them...

Actually there is a 3rd option

It was revealed this week there were 7.2 million PPS numbers for a population of only 4.58 million. Ms Healy Eames, Fine Gael spokeswoman on Social Protection in the Seanad, said this provided strong potential for welfare abuse.

She has written to group chairwoman barrister Ita Mangan suggesting a “social welfare income cap” on households to stem “social welfare reliance at an intergenerational level”.

Don't cut it, just make thousands ineligible.
Fianna Fail did it with the Habitual Residency rule in 2009.

Liam Byrne · 20-07-2011 11:10AM

CommuterIE wrote: »

LMAO, I'm not really sure if you know how the world works my friend!

Oh believe me, I've seen how it works and it's sickening.

Doesn't stop me pointing out where it fails.

CommuterIE wrote: »

Anyway, Enda should not have promised no Social Welfare cuts or Tax Increases in the next budget.... they are simply waiting for the IMF to do the dirty work so the government can blame them...

No, he should have been honest and promised stuff that he was prepared to deliver.

Monty Burnz · 20-07-2011 11:17AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, he should have been honest and promised stuff that he was prepared to deliver.

Unfortunately the moronic electorate wouldn't have liked that. The same morons who voted known crook Bertie Ahern in three times.

As a leading Green Party figure once said off the record, Irish politicians are surprisingly good considering how bad the voters are. I don't think he meant that as a compliment to the politicians.

Drumpot · 20-07-2011 11:21AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Oh believe me, I've seen how it works and it's sickening.

Doesn't stop me pointing out where it fails.

No, he should have been honest and promised stuff that he was prepared to deliver.

If Enda had of promised pain across the board. If he had promised that he would be cutting social welfare, but looking to protect most vulnerable in the process. If he had said that he was going to tackle the costs of the public service, targeting specifically the higher levels of the grossly mismanaged beast. If he had said that he would fight Irelands cause with our EU friends but that he would be very much relying on the goodwill of our paymasters. If he said that his party wouldnt keep referring back to FF whenever they do something wrong (or dish out pain that they chose). If he had promised to address the nation regularly and at all times keep them updated on where we stand and what his intentions/strategies were.

Then I would of voted and followed him and his party.

Instead we have much of the same (not simply because FF left them in the Sh*ts) and the same lame excuses from their supporters. Broken promises are lies irrespective of whether or not it is the norm during elections for politicians to promise the sun moon and stars. I cant understand how stupid people can be to excuse ANYBODY, let alone an elected representitive, promising something they have no idea as to whether or not they can deliver on this promise. I usually associate this with conmen, but it seems dail privelages mean its somehow morally/ethically ok for politicians to promise anything they want.

When Society accepts bullsh*t, hypocricy and double standards, it shouldnt be surprised when a majority of the people are left in the gutters looking through the manhole at their protected masters living it up at their expense.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/taxpayers-may-be-left-to-pick-up-part-of-euro70k-dail-bar-tab-2824165.html

Ah sure its only €70,000 . . Doesnt matter if its a phonebill of premium calls of €2,500 or millions wasted on a voting machine, once people keep excusing and ignoring lack of accountability and wastage OF OUR MONEY by our government and government run departments, we will only end up with the disrespectful, cronyist government (and their departments) we deserve.

anymore · 20-07-2011 11:27AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Unfortunately the moronic electorate wouldn't have liked that. The same morons who voted known crook Bertie Ahern in three times.

As a leading Green Party figure once said off the record, Irish politicians are surprisingly good considering how bad the voters are. I don't think he meant that as a compliment to the politicians.

When I want a reminder of how bad the Greens were in Government, I re- read Gormley's planet Bertie speech :
" ........You can end the nightmare of Planet Bertie in the summer of 2007. Radical, realistic, responsible and ready for government. The best is yet to come for this party. "
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/address_by_john_gormley_to_the_national_convention

Monty Burnz · 20-07-2011 11:30AM

Drumpot wrote: »

When Society accepts bullsh*t, hypocricy and double standards, it shouldnt be surprised when a majority of the people are left in the gutters looking through the manhole at their protected masters living it up at their expense.

I agree with you in principle, but as I pointed out above, society doesn't just accept this bullsh*t, it DEMANDS it. The Shinners and ULA were worse, pretending that we could tell everyone to go whistle for the debts Fianna Failure piled on us, and there'd be no serious consequences.

If a party came out and told the truth, they'd alienate 90% of the population. They would be unelectable. This is ultimately a problem with the electorate rather than with the political parties.

Monty Burnz · 20-07-2011 11:31AM

anymore wrote: »

When I want a reminder of how bad the Greens were in Government, I re- read Gormley's planet Bertie speech :
" ........You can end the nightmare of Planet Bertie in the summer of 2007. Radical, realistic, responsible and ready for government. The best is yet to come for this party."

Just LOL. :rolleyes:

Drumpot · 20-07-2011 11:37AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I agree with you in principle, but as I pointed out above, society doesn't just accept this bullsh*t, it DEMANDS it. The Shinners and ULA were worse, pretending that we could tell everyone to go whistle for the debts Fianna Failure piled on us, and there'd be no serious consequences.

If a party came out and told the truth, they'd alienate 90% of the population. They would be unelectable. This is ultimately a problem with the electorate rather than with the political parties.

100% agreed.

That is why I considered (very seriously) getting into politics but ultimatley couldnt find a party that shared my principles. Coupled with that, I had little/no confidence in the electorate. I am not saying that I am great and everybody else is wrong, Im just stating that I didnt believe the electorate shared my values.

The truth is very much undervalued these days.

Laois_Man · 20-07-2011 04:20PM

While I am annoyed (although not suprised) by some of the things FG/labour Enda have/haven't done, my respect for the man has been heightened somewhat today by his attack on The Vatican.

I would however have liked him to go even further and say that Pope Benidict will not be afforded an official state welcome if he should, as is expected, come here in June 2012. Not that I would have expected him to do that either!

Happyman42 · 20-07-2011 04:25PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

While I am annoyed (although not suprised) by some of the things FG/labour Enda have/haven't done, my respect for the man has been heightened somewhat today by his attack on The Vatican.

Stuff and nonsense.....let's see him actually 'do' something.
We know from wikileaks that governments 'agree' a form of words to placate the electorate, but privately are saying something completely different.

Just lost respect for Kenny

Comments