Buying Mac Book Pro in the US

whiterebel · 01-02-2011 12:10PM

Johnmb wrote: »

I'm sure it is easily checked where a machine is purchased. I didn't comment on that. The onus is on customs to check where it was purchased and prove it wasn't purchased within the EU. That is what I said, nothing about how easy it is for them to get that proof. And as for breaking free of the UK, that is completely irrelevant. As I said, the Irish courts have never ignored a precedent of principle as set by the top UK courts. It doesn't matter whether you are happy about that or not, it is fact. The systems are the same, the Irish courts are smart enough to know that, and while UK precedents are not binding, the reality is that they are followed.

Its the mention of UK courts that is completely irrelevant. And the onus is not on Customs to prove it, to use your words, whether you are happy about it or not. Cars get seized every day on Irish roads because the driver cannot prove they have paid the necessary VAT and VRT on import to Customs. Do Customs have to prove they haven't? No.

ucd.1985 · 01-02-2011 12:20PM

whiterebel wrote: »

Its the mention of UK courts that is completely irrelevant.

Not true. A huge amount of rulings by the Irish Revenue are based on case law and similar rulings in the UK due to the large similarities between the two tax systems.

Johnmb · 01-02-2011 12:53PM

whiterebel wrote: »

Its the mention of UK courts that is completely irrelevant.

From that comment I can only draw the conclusion that you don't have a clue about the Irish legal system.

And the onus is not on Customs to prove it, to use your words, whether you are happy about it or not. Cars get seized every day on Irish roads because the driver cannot prove they have paid the necessary VAT and VRT on import to Customs. Do Customs have to prove they haven't? No.

Actually, customs do have to prove that the VRT and VAT weren't paid. That is an extremely daft example to give as you are completely wrong in the assertion and it is not that difficult to check! In the case of cars, customs have the records of every one that has had the VRT paid on it and can therefore prove that you didn't pay it by presenting the list and showing that your car is not on it. Although, even then, the onus is on them to prove that you have had the car in this country for longer than is allowed without registering, and that you are not merely visiting. Again, usually something they can do with ease, because they don't just pull over cars randomly, they do some research first.

whiterebel · 01-02-2011 01:22PM

ucd.1985 wrote: »

whiterebel wrote: »

Its the mention of UK courts that is completely irrelevant.

Not true. A huge amount of rulings by the Irish Revenue are based on case law and similar rulings in the UK due to the large similarities between the two tax systems.

Would you have any links to recent cases? I presume you are not talking about the situations being similar under common law, but recent cases where the Irish legal system has been guided by UK Law?

whiterebel · 01-02-2011 01:29PM

Johnmb wrote: »

From that comment I can only draw the conclusion that you don't have a clue about the Irish legal system.

Actually, customs do have to prove that the VRT and VAT weren't paid. That is an extremely daft example to give as you are completely wrong in the assertion and it is not that difficult to check! In the case of cars, customs have the records of every one that has had the VRT paid on it and can therefore prove that you didn't pay it by presenting the list and showing that your car is not on it. Although, even then, the onus is on them to prove that you have had the car in this country for longer than is allowed without registering, and that you are not merely visiting. Again, usually something they can do with ease, because they don't just pull over cars randomly, they do some research first.

So Customs and Excise prove it by seizing a car at the side of the road? They don't pull over randomly? They do research first? Its pretty obvious that you have no experience of dealing with C&E , or in fact, what their powers are.
From your posts, I feel exactly the same about your "knowledge" of the Irish legal system, believe me.

Johnmb · 01-02-2011 02:12PM

whiterebel wrote: »

So Customs and Excise prove it by seizing a car at the side of the road?

??? Are you asking a question or making a statement? How exactly would they prove anything merely by pulling over a car?

They don't pull over randomly?

They don't just pull over randomly. They do actually do some work you know.

They do research first?

Seriously, are you trying to imply that they don't do any research to make sure they have their facts straight before risking a court case? That is incredibly naive.

Its pretty obvious that you have no experience of dealing with C&E , or in fact, what their powers are.

Actually, I have quite a bit of experience with them from a previous job, whereby lots of things, including electronic goods, where imported for sale by my employer. And I can confirm that no list of individual products is provided to either the Revenue or the CSO. They only get totals. So, unlike with cars, there is no list available to them of the serial numbers of every individual computer/laptop/whatever imported into the country with the correct duties etc paid, so it's a lot more difficult for them to prove anything.

From your posts, I feel exactly the same about your "knowledge" of the Irish legal system, believe me.

I'm not the one who thinks that UK precedents are irrelevant here, that would be you. One of the first things you learn while doing a business law course in college is that when it comes to case law precedents set in the UK (and indeed other common law jurisdictions) have persuasive value in Irish courts, and that no Irish court has ever gone against a precedent of principle set by the highest court in the UK. Despite them not being bound to follow, they still do follow. They aren't idiots, they know that the principles of law are the same in both countries, so they don't try to reinvent the wheel when it has already been done for them. BTW, Irish Supreme Court rulings would have the same persuasive value in UK courts, and I doubt very much that they would go against them if we had already set a precedent in principle before them.

whiterebel · 01-02-2011 03:52PM

I was going to answer that, but looking at the way you chop and change things to suit yourself, I doubt there's much point. I only hope you do not come across C&E in your travels some day, and follow your own counsel, because the advice you have given here is bad.

Johnmb · 01-02-2011 04:50PM

whiterebel wrote: »

I was going to answer that, but looking at the way you chop and change things to suit yourself, I doubt there's much point. I only hope you do not come across C&E in your travels some day, and follow your own counsel, because the advice you have given here is bad.

What advice? I didn't advice either way. While it is a load of crap that that customs people don't have the onus of proof, anyone planning on importing anything without declaring it need to know a few simple facts:
1. The onus of proof is on the customs guys.
2. In order to confiscate something, they only need to have reason to think it is being imported, you have to go to court to get it back, and it is there that the onus of proof will come into it, not in the airport. Also, they have the right to search you and your belongings, so if you have the receipt anywhere and the find it, they have all the proof they will ever need.
3. How heavy the burden of proof is will be up to the court. Having a brand new laptop in your bag with an american keyboard, on your way back from a holiday to the US may well be considered enough proof. Something like an iPad on the other hand, I seriously doubt that customs would even try to deal with. If you are planning to try it, you have to be willing to go to a lot of trouble to get your goods (or money) back, so you'd want to be pretty sure that they have no proof.
Trying to use cars as an example is silly, as they are completely different. The onus of proof is still with customs, but it is so easy for them to prove that it isn't like with like. Electronic goods like a laptop are much more difficult for them to prove (unless it is a model that is not available in the EU or something like that).

mfield · 02-02-2011 06:43PM

UPDATE

I am typing this on my Mac Book Pro bought in The US.

There really are some great savings to be had over there.

thecommander · 02-02-2011 10:23PM

mfield wrote: »

UPDATE

I am typing this on my Mac Book Pro bought in The US.

There really are some great savings to be had over there.

Im replying to your message on one too.

_sparkie_ · 07-02-2011 07:23PM

Funky G wrote: »

Was gonna go down the import route but i think the american keyboard is different than the a standard one everyone uses.

the american keyboard is fine, in fact i prefere it to the UK one. when i order my new macbook i am going to get the america keyboard put into it.

Onecoolcookie · 09-07-2011 08:35PM

Hi guys, I've a cousin going over to the US next week and I've asked him to get me a Macbook Pro. Just wondering though do the apple stores over there sell refurbs in shop and would it be worth my while going down that route?

stimpson · 09-07-2011 08:58PM

I think refurbs are web only. Still cheap as chips!

Onecoolcookie · 09-07-2011 08:59PM

Yeah was thinking the same, thanks.

Also would I be able to order off the apple US site using my irish credit card but have it shipped to my cousins house over there?

stimpson · 09-07-2011 09:50PM

You may need an American credit card but I'd risk it.

If your card gets declined give your card company a ring they may allow it.

Fol20 · 10-07-2011 01:10PM

Ill be going stateside in 2 months time,ill be getting a new mbp and ipad2, would it be dodgy to bring back the boxes..

whiterebel · 10-07-2011 07:37PM

Fol20 wrote: »

Ill be going stateside in 2 months time,ill be getting a new mbp and ipad2, would it be dodgy to bring back the boxes..

Well if you were stopped, how would you explain the boxes............

stimpson · 10-07-2011 07:53PM

+1

You'd be stung at customs if they're found. I found my mac mini box in the attic this weekend. It's 5 years old and has been sitting there since I bought it!

thecommander · 11-07-2011 02:30PM

Fol20 wrote: »

Ill be going stateside in 2 months time,ill be getting a new mbp and ipad2, would it be dodgy to bring back the boxes..

Post the boxes back.

Fol20 · 11-07-2011 11:21PM

Do you think id be able to avail of this offer when im over there?

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/campaigns/back_to_school?mco=MjMwMzAyMTM

Using that offer id get it 100dollars cheaper and also get a 100dollar itunes voucher..would that work in my eu account?

Sad Professor · 12-07-2011 10:01AM

Fol20 wrote: »

and also get a 100dollar itunes voucher..would that work in my eu account?

No. You'd have to create a US account to use it.

Losty Dublin · 12-07-2011 11:57AM

thecommander wrote: »

Post the boxes back.

Empty boxes going through international post scanning checks will actually draw more attention to themselves over full ones as they look suspicious.

thecommander · 12-07-2011 03:43PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Empty boxes going through international post scanning checks will actually draw more attention to themselves over full ones as they look suspicious.

So? If there's nothing in them after bomb/drugs test they'll let them on. It's not illegal to send a box. Do you honestly think customs will call at your house over a box?

Fol20 · 12-07-2011 04:29PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

No. You'd have to create a US account to use it.

How will that work then..I already have a ireland account and have bought stuff on it..

I might try and ask them to give me the 75e voucher

Losty Dublin · 12-07-2011 05:18PM

thecommander wrote: »

So? If there's nothing in them after bomb/drugs test they'll let them on. It's not illegal to send a box. Do you honestly think customs will call at your house over a box?

You are quite right, it's not illegal to send empty boxes. However the guys working for Customs aren't mugs and they know that people don't just send empty computer boxes from foreign climes for the crack; end result being that it does and it will draw attention to you. That's not to say that they will call over to you but they are wise to tricks like this.

thecommander · 13-07-2011 10:36AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

That's not to say that they will call over to you but they are wise to tricks like this.

They are wise to tricks like this, I know they're not stupid. But they won't be calling to your house unless it happening on a regular basis.

Johnmb · 13-07-2011 11:31AM

thecommander wrote: »

They are wise to tricks like this, I know they're not stupid. But they won't be calling to your house unless it happening on a regular basis.

And even if they do, they are in a much weaker position at that stage than they would be in the airport. In the airport, they can confiscate the goods. While the burden of proof is still with them, if the goods where in boxes etc., that burden is pretty easy to deal with, and you'd have to go to the bother of challenging them to get yours goods back. If you get through the airport with your goods, and they later come knocking because of empty boxes being posted, they have to do the challenging. They can't confiscate your goods at that stage without a court order, which puts the burden fully back with them. It becomes a lot more difficult for them to prove anything at that stage, so they are unlikely to bother for things that are clearly for personal use. Getting through the airport is key, once you've done that, they are in a much weaker position to do anything about it.

Losty Dublin · 13-07-2011 01:36PM

Johnmb wrote: »

And even if they do, they are in a much weaker position at that stage than they would be in the airport. In the airport, they can confiscate the goods. While the burden of proof is still with them, if the goods where in boxes etc., that burden is pretty easy to deal with, and you'd have to go to the bother of challenging them to get yours goods back. If you get through the airport with your goods, and they later come knocking because of empty boxes being posted, they have to do the challenging. They can't confiscate your goods at that stage without a court order, which puts the burden fully back with them. It becomes a lot more difficult for them to prove anything at that stage, so they are unlikely to bother for things that are clearly for personal use. Getting through the airport is key, once you've done that, they are in a much weaker position to do anything about it.

Actually guys, Revenue can and often do seize any goods that they suspect have not been declared for tax/excise and the key word here is "suspect"; it's your job to make sure they are happy that it's above board should the worst happens. You'd be rather suprised to know that they do the odd spot check after the event so be aware, they are out there and aware

Johnmb · 13-07-2011 01:59PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Actually guys, Revenue can and often do seize any goods that they suspect have not been declared for tax/excise and the key word here is "suspect"; it's your job to make sure they are happy that it's above board should the worst happens. You'd be rather suprised to know that they do the odd spot check after the event so be aware, they are out there and aware

And once again, it has to be pointed out, they cannot take your property from your home, nor even enter your home, without a court order. And for that they need to do more than "suspect", they need to provide evidence that it is a reasonable assumption that you haven't declared it. And even then, they, not you, they, have to be able to prove you're guilty, you don't have to prove you're innocent. They rely on bluff when they take your stuff at the airport (which they can do), but in your home, bluff doesn't cut it, they need proof, which is not as easy to get as it is to bluff.

ZENER · 13-07-2011 03:54PM

Fill the box with bubble-wrap and a wineglass and post it to a relative

Ken

Buying Mac Book Pro in the US

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