Do i have to go to court

Jesus Shaves · 11-07-2011 11:32PM #1

In court in a couple of weeks over not producing my insurance and license when i was stopped by a member of the garda.

It's only a minor offence and i have all the documents to support my case

one problem is i suffer from major anxiety and am nervous even thinking about it now

Do i have to be in court on the date or is their any way i could get out of it?:(

dermot_sheehan · 11-07-2011 11:52PM

Produce the documents to the garda in question before the court date (assuming you had a driving licence, insurance cert and nct covering you at the time), and the garda might have it struck out without you having to attend.

To be safe I'd attend though, its too much of a risk to be convicted in your absence.

Jesus Shaves · 12-07-2011 12:04AM

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

Produce the documents to the garda in question before the court date (assuming you had a driving licence, insurance cert and nct covering you at the time), and the garda might have it struck out without you having to attend.

To be safe I'd attend though, its too much of a risk to be convicted in your absence.

i have all the documents, cheers

Our man in Havana · 12-07-2011 02:06PM

Send a solicitor if you don't want to attend yourself.

coylemj · 12-07-2011 03:55PM

Or produce the documentation to the Garda in his local station, then write a letter to the judge (quote the summons number and the date of the court) saying you are going on a foreign holiday which was booked and paid for before the summons arrived, you were licensed and insured on the day and have produced the documentation to the Garda.

Plead guilty to the charges of not producing and apologise for taking up the time of the court and the Garda, you'll probably get off.

Hiring a solicitor would be a bit OTT and expensive.

12-07-2011 04:03PM

coylemj wrote: »

Hiring a solicitor would be a bit OTT and expensive.

Lying to a judge is somewhat worse.

coylemj · 12-07-2011 04:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Lying to a judge is somewhat worse.

The judge is going to hand the letter to the Garda and ask that the OP be investigated to see if he really is on a foreign holiday?

I was called for jury duty once and before the judge arrived and while the registrar was sorting us out and explaining how the empanelling process worked, he said that if we had an invitation to a wedding to tell the judge that it was our daughter's wedding. If the registrar of the Central Criminal Court can tell a pool of 100 prospective jurors to lie to a judge I don't see what the OP would be doing wrong by writing that letter.

Get real, solicitors stand up in front of judges and tell bare-faced lies all the time. They usually start off with 'my client has an offer of a job starting next week'......

Jesus Shaves · 12-07-2011 04:40PM

solicitor sorted for free
insurance company sending out my proof of insurance and obviously i have a license

one thing i didnt mention i didnt produce the documents within 10 days as it took a month for my duplicate license to be sent out

so it should be struck out

waste of tax payers money

Kosseegan · 12-07-2011 04:43PM

Letters should not be sent to judges, it is scandalising the court. No one knows the form of the judge in question. The guard may forget to strike the matter out. If the o/p is not there he should have someone there to see what happens. 99% of the time theses cases result in a strike out without the defendant having to do anything. Sometimes things go wrong. Some judges get annoyed if the defendant is not there and want to give a lecture to the defendant before striking out the charge. Documents should be shown to the guard wekll in advance. Find out when he is due on duty and go to the station with them. Bring the documents to court again and remind the guard. Some judges get very annoyed if documents are produced for the first time when the guard is in the witness box. Often the case is adjourned for the guard to consider them.

Mr. Presentable · 12-07-2011 04:47PM

darokane wrote: »

waste of tax payers money

Which wouldn't happen if you were law-abiding :rolleyes:

Jesus Shaves · 12-07-2011 04:49PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Which wouldn't happen if you were law-abiding :rolleyes:

Sorry if i don't like to carry important documents in my car which could be easily forged

coylemj · 12-07-2011 05:01PM

Kosseegan wrote: »

Letters should not be sent to judges, it is scandalising the court.

Sorry but it is acceptable to write a letter to the District Court, it happens all the time.

What exactly do you mean by scandalising the court?

I said in my post that the OP should (1) produce the documentation to the Garda at his station and (2) point out to the judge (in the proposed letter) that he did so, this is to get around the possibility that the Garda didn't make a note of the fact that the OP produced his licence and insurance.

Once the Garda tells the judge that he has seen the licence and insurance, the judge cannot convict the OP of no licence and no insurance and whether he's blowing hot or cold on the day, the worst he can do is impose a small fine for not producing.

The reality however is that most judges have such a list to get through that they just strike out the non-production charges once the licence and insurance are found to be in order.

dats_right · 12-07-2011 06:18PM

darokane wrote: »

Sorry if i don't like to carry important documents in my car which could be easily forged

You might not like to but it is a legal requirement that you do.

In most cases where documents are produced all summons are struck-out. However on the face of it you have committed the offence of not producing your documents so the Judge may still convict and fine you for this.

Not appearing in Court can and often does lead to the issue of a bench warrant for that person's arrest. It doesn't necessarily arise here but I would imagine that most judges would not accept anxiety as a good reason for not appearing in Court.

Our man in Havana · 12-07-2011 06:25PM

He has a solicitor sorted for the day.

12-07-2011 06:33PM

coylemj wrote: »

The judge is going to hand the letter to the Garda and ask that the OP be investigated to see if he really is on a foreign holiday?

I was called for jury duty once and before the judge arrived and while the registrar was sorting us out and explaining how the empanelling process worked, he said that if we had an invitation to a wedding to tell the judge that it was our daughter's wedding. If the registrar of the Central Criminal Court can tell a pool of 100 prospective jurors to lie to a judge I don't see what the OP would be doing wrong by writing that letter.

Get real, solicitors stand up in front of judges and tell bare-faced lies all the time. They usually start off with 'my client has an offer of a job starting next week'......

I can't possibly comment on what solicitors do in your imagination, or in real life criminal matters at that, but I can tell you that lying to the Court is a pretty terrible idea.

I also can't speak for the Registrars.

None of what you say above makes it any less stupid to lie to a judge.

Avatargh · 12-07-2011 07:02PM

coylemj wrote: »

Or produce the documentation to the Garda in his local station, then write a letter to the judge (quote the summons number and the date of the court) saying you are going on a foreign holiday which was booked and paid for before the summons arrived, you were licensed and insured on the day and have produced the documentation to the Garda.

This is utter nonsense.

coylemj · 12-07-2011 11:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't possibly comment on what solicitors do in your imagination, or in real life criminal matters at that, but I can tell you that lying to the Court is a pretty terrible idea.

It's not my imagination. On dozens of occasions I have seen and heard free legal aid defence solicitors tell a judge that a completely hopeless and recidivist defendant has a job lined up starting next Monday.

So please don't get on your high horse and say that it's not ok for a person summonsed on minor traffic summons to tell porkies in a letter to the court

Deleted User wrote: »

I also can't speak for the Registrars.

Nobody asked you to speak for anyone, I heard what I heard.

Jesus Shaves · 12-07-2011 11:18PM

dats_right wrote: »

Not appearing in Court can and often does lead to the issue of a bench warrant for that person's arrest. It doesn't necessarily arise here but I would imagine that most judges would not accept anxiety as a good reason for not appearing in Court.

really, maybe i should lie so and say i'm on holiday at that time, or maybe you shouldn't comment on things that you don't understand:rolleyes:

coylemj · 12-07-2011 11:29PM

dats_right wrote: »

Not appearing in Court can and often does lead to the issue of a bench warrant for that person's arrest.

Failing to make an appearance when summonsed for minor traffic offences will not result in the issuing of a bench warrant, you clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Jesus Shaves · 13-07-2011 12:45AM

This thread really must have got to some people:eek:

i only asked the question for the reason i stated in the first post, i have all the documentation, the only "illegal" thing i done was not have my license and insurance on me(even though the insurance disc was clearly displayed in the car)

Anyone with a non-biased non "i know everything but i don't really" answer?

passion · 13-07-2011 01:00AM

OP i know how you feel, and yes much to much anxiety to even think about. Avoiding court, unless you know for certain you can, is to much of a risk but most gardi are reasonable ppl and will happily let you know if there's anything that can be done. Before your court date ring the arresting officer and explain your situation.. if you've medical cert's to back up the anxiety tell them you can produce them and you'd happily show all that you couldn't previously and for the dates in question. good luck:)

13-07-2011 11:02AM

coylemj wrote: »

It's not my imagination. On dozens of occasions I have seen and heard free legal aid defence solicitors tell a judge that a completely hopeless and recidivist defendant has a job lined up starting next Monday.
So please don't get on your high horse and say that it's not ok for a person summonsed on minor traffic summons to tell porkies in a letter to the court
Nobody asked you to speak for anyone, I heard what I heard.

Look, you are advising someone to lie to a Court. Whether or not you've ever seen anyone else do it makes no difference, it shouldn't be done. By your logic if someone steals millions from a bank then it doesn't matter if you only steal a few thousand from them. Lying to a Court is wrong and should never be done let alone advised!

darokane wrote: »

This thread really must have got to some people:eek:

i only asked the question for the reason i stated in the first post, i have all the documentation, the only "illegal" thing i done was not have my license and insurance on me(even though the insurance disc was clearly displayed in the car)

Anyone with a non-biased non "i know everything but i don't really" answer?

Sorry if it's gone off topic but you've gotten some awful advice on this thread. Bring your details to the Garda before the hearing. He may be able to help you out. If not then get a solicitor if you can afford it and, if not, wear trousers and a neat shirt and tie, go to Court, explain precisely what happened and bring your documentation with you. The judge will have a procession of less than amenable characters in front of him during the day so being polite and concise goes a long way.

Kosseegan · 13-07-2011 12:58PM

coylemj wrote: »

Sorry but it is acceptable to write a letter to the District Court, it happens all the time.

What exactly do you mean by scandalising the court?

I said in my post that the OP should (1) produce the documentation to the Garda at his station and (2) point out to the judge (in the proposed letter) that he did so, this is to get around the possibility that the Garda didn't make a note of the fact that the OP produced his licence and insurance.

Once the Garda tells the judge that he has seen the licence and insurance, the judge cannot convict the OP of no licence and no insurance and whether he's blowing hot or cold on the day, the worst he can do is impose a small fine for not producing.

The reality however is that most judges have such a list to get through that they just strike out the non-production charges once the licence and insurance are found to be in order.

If writing a letter it should be addressed to the Clerk of the Court, not the Judge. The clerk can then hand it to the judge in Court when the case is called. A judge is not supposed to hear one party to a case without the other side being present. Writing to a Judge exposes the Judge to the risk of being accused of being accused of lacking even handedness, thus scandalising him.

Some judges get annoyed when peiople who are summonsed do not turn up, even though they are innocent. They regard failure to turn up as an insult. catch the wrong judge on a bad day and there can be endless hassle. The o/p is in enough distress without letting things get any worse.

coylemj · 13-07-2011 07:48PM

Kosseegan wrote: »

Some judges get annoyed when peiople who are summonsed do not turn up, even though they are innocent. They regard failure to turn up as an insult. catch the wrong judge on a bad day and there can be endless hassle. The o/p is in enough distress without letting things get any worse.

Most District Justices would love it if nobody turned up, then they could get through the list in double-quick time!

I take your point about writing to the clerk and not the judge but this is a tad pedantic because it's the clerk's staff who will open the letter anyway and when the case is called the clerk will pass the letter to the judge if this appropriate by which I mean that if the Garda doesn't turn up then the case will be struck out so the letter will not be passed to the judge.

A judge will not in any way be annoyed if the Garda turns up, says he inspected the defendant's documents a couple of weeks before and is satisfied that he was licensed and insured. Judges are well pleased that people do this before the date of the court as it speeds things up on the day, the result is typically that the non-production summons are swiftly struck out and they move on to the next case.

To say that a judge is insulted if someone fails to turn up is completely BS, have you ever seen what happens when someone turns up for a parking summons and starts to reel off some excuse as to why they were parked on a double-yellow line? That type of idiot typically gets fined double the going rate for the no-shows!

You don't know what you're talking about.

13-07-2011 08:26PM

coylemj wrote: »

You don't know what you're talking about.

Do i have to go to court

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