Referees - something needs to be done

DB10 · 26-06-2011 05:45PM #1

I've watched alot of games this weekend, in 3 of them the referee was an absolute disgrace, and in two both clearly advantaged a team win the game.

- 2 Cavan players sent off yesterday against Longford, for nothing offences. The referee was fussy and appalling all game long, even so Longford deserving winners.

- Tyrone Donegal, great game, terrible refereeing and an even worse sending off for Kevin Hughes at a vital stage for Tyrone, because of an incompetent linesman. A dive from a Donegal player helped his team to victory. Mickey Harte will be very annoyed.

- The farce in the Dublin Kildare game with the last free and sending off.

Terrible stuff all year.

dartbhoy · 26-06-2011 05:52PM

This weekend was a shocker for the refs. 2nd year in a row a team in Leinster has been robbed by an incompetent ref.

sgthighway · 26-06-2011 05:55PM

Ref of Galway v Mayo played about 35 mins too much play

macadam · 26-06-2011 05:59PM

I referee myself and I cannot understand how these guys get it so wrong on a big day totally disgraceful, anyone that fcuks up like these guys this weekend and Sludden last year should be banished of the panel, its time the men in green coats at Hq grew a pair of balls and put a stop to this nonsense.
Teams that are slogging through the muck and training for months and giving up there free time to entertain us deserve better and should not be out of a final because of incompetent refereeing.

Fireball07 · 26-06-2011 06:01PM

They're not all bad to be fair. But the one today in the Dublin-Kildare game was awful, and apparently the Donegal-Tyrone and Longford-Cavan game were bad too.

I thought the Galway-Mayo ref was pretty good, and the one last night in the Louth-Meath game wasn't bad.

gooch2k9 · 26-06-2011 06:08PM

Simple solution: allow physicality back into the game.

Look at football from the 70s and 80s, you needed to be down unconscious to get a free most of the time. Compare that to the free given to Dublin.

Now I know we can't have that in this day and age(some crazy stuff), but there has to be a middle ground where physicality can be part of the game, yet the players aren't in danger.

Grudaire · 26-06-2011 06:46PM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Simple solution: allow physicality back into the game.

With the same referees? Or will we have the same complaints of lack of consistency?

I think people are overdramatising the refereeing decisions.

Long Term Louth · 26-06-2011 06:55PM

Cliste wrote: »

With the same referees? Or will we have the same complaints of lack of consistency?

I think people are overdramatising the refereeing decisions.

Decisions which cost those travelling from all ends of Ireland fortunes in money, promote unfairness, cost those training all year for their day in Croke Park, overdramatising indeed.

Browning · 26-06-2011 06:56PM

Are you being serious or just taking the p*** ? Overdramatising how are you. The Referee in the game made a series of bad decisions from the first minute to the last minute. It not often you hear Marty Morrissey question referees decisions in the course of his commentary, but at least the referee had the good sense to run to the tunnel as he blew the final whistle. That gives you an indication of his own impression of his performance. The game is being ruined by poor refereeing, time to get it sorted instead of trying to blame players and gag team officials when they try to speak out.

Pegasusbridge · 26-06-2011 07:04PM

Referees are only human and humans make mistakes. It is going to happen. Kildare had a ton of possession in the second half and should have been a few points ahead. In that case an incorrect free would have made no difference. Sometimes the decisions go for you (Kildare last time against Meath) and sometimes they go against you (Kildare today). The only way to improve this is to introduce some form of video ref. I think there should be a video ref and teams should be allowed challenge a decision (simillar to American Football), which would then be checked by a video ref. Yes it would slow up the game on occassion (but only a bit as you would only allow each team, say, two challenges a game) but you would get more correct decisions.

Medu · 26-06-2011 07:16PM

G.football isn't a very well designed sport.

It has a very large playing area with a single ref. The ref is except to constantly monitor the player in possession to make sure he isn't fouling the ball. The ref must also make sure that the player with the ball isn't been fouled which is nearly an impossible task as there really isn't a clear definition of what a foul is in GAA. Contact is allowed, but not too much contact. You can wrap your arms around a player for a split second but then you must let go, but you can rinse and repeat. Both of these are very grey area's.
It has gotten worse in the last few years as crowding out has become a popular way of defending. Here the player in position is constantly been 'slapped' and is basically unable to move due to been surrounded. They are unable to pass the ball as both valid methods of passing the ball in GAA require space for the player to strike the ball. We saw Kildare penalised today for doing this, even though it's often allowed- another grey area.
And of course while this is going on there are 10 other 'couples' marking each other- punching each other in the kidney's and grabbing each other's nuts every chance they get!

Mal-Adjusted · 26-06-2011 07:18PM

Pegasusbridge wrote: »

The only way to improve this is to introduce some form of video ref. I think there should be a video ref and teams should be allowed challenge a decision (simillar to American Football), which would then be checked by a video ref. Yes it would slow up the game on occassion (but only a bit as you would only allow each team, say, two challenges a game) but you would get more correct decisions.

The GAA are notoriously resistant to introducing anything new (or change in general) their current excuse (i think) is that video ref can't be implimented across the board, i.e. that because you don't have a video ref in a Gort/Oranmore Junior B match, you shouldn't have it at Croke Park :rolleyes:

TouchingVirus · 26-06-2011 07:19PM

Pegasusbridge wrote: »

Referees are only human and humans make mistakes. It is going to happen. Kildare had a ton of possession in the second half and should have been a few points ahead. In that case an incorrect free would have made no difference. Sometimes the decisions go for you (Kildare last time against Meath) and sometimes they go against you (Kildare today). The only way to improve this is to introduce some form of video ref. I think there should be a video ref and teams should be allowed challenge a decision (simillar to American Football), which would then be checked by a video ref. Yes it would slow up the game on occassion (but only a bit as you would only allow each team, say, two challenges a game) but you would get more correct decisions.

Then it gets technical. Technically, a pull or tug on a jersey that impedes a player is a free. For the Kildare v Dublin match, Brogan gets that free. It wouldn't have changed the result at all. Strict interpretations of rules in sports where physicality isn't allowed aren't the best idea and will disrupt the game IMO. I can see why leaving it up to the referee to interpret can lead to allegations of unfairness, injustice etc.

It's just a matter of picking which one to go with. I can imagine the outrage when people are getting nailed for tiny things that are fouls but were "never a foul" before the video ref comes in.

TopOfTheRight · 26-06-2011 07:26PM

Am i the only one who thought the free-in at the end was the correct decision? Brogan's run was impeded because his heels were clipped, accidental or not that's a free in my book

Kildare didnt deserve to be in that game let alone get a draw out of it anyway

Pegasusbridge · 26-06-2011 07:28PM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Then it gets technical. Technically, a pull or tug on a jersey that impedes a player is a free. For the Kildare v Dublin match, Brogan gets that free. It wouldn't have changed the result at all. Strict interpretations of rules in sports where physicality isn't allowed aren't the best idea and will disrupt the game IMO. I can see why leaving it up to the referee to interpret can lead to allegations of unfairness, injustice etc.

It's just a matter of picking which one to go with. I can imagine the outrage when people are getting nailed for tiny things that are fouls but were "never a foul" before the video ref comes in.

A fair point but I would still argue that you would get more correct decisions if you had a video ref. In American Football the original decision stands unless there is clear evidence it was wrong. It would only remove clearly incorrect decisions. Also it would only be used a handful of times a game. We already have outrage so don't think it would be any worse.

rpurfield · 26-06-2011 07:30PM

DB10 wrote: »

I've watched alot of games this weekend, in 3 of them the referee was an absolute disgrace, and in two both clearly advantaged a team win the game.

- 2 Cavan players sent off yesterday against Longford, for nothing offences. The referee was fussy and appalling all game long, even so Longford deserving winners.

- Tyrone Donegal, great game, terrible refereeing and an even worse sending off for Kevin Hughes at a vital stage for Tyrone, because of an incompetent linesman. A dive from a Donegal player helped his team to victory. Mickey Harte will be very annoyed.

- The farce in the Dublin Kildare game with the last free and sending off.

Terrible stuff all year.

yesterday in breffni park was a perfect example of inconsistency in the first game the ref blew everything and it ended up in two second yellows for lads that were needless in the second game every tackle around midfield was let go on both sides it was completly the opposite!

TopOfTheRight · 26-06-2011 07:31PM

As for the problem with referees in general, in my opinion it comes down to the rules of our game

As it stands there is no definition of any kind of a "tackle" - going by the rule book the only time you can legally win the ball off someone is when they are playing it (hoping/soloing/hand-passing/kicking) or a shoulder-to-shoulder charge

Beyond that its all down to the referees own personal interpretation, so if we no longer trust the referees interpretations then the GAA must go about defining the "tackle" in a way that we all understand and agree on

Get McAneney to write the rulebook because he's the only referee who's interpreation i trust! (mainly because he ignores about half the rules)

Pegasusbridge · 26-06-2011 07:32PM

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Am i the only one who thought the free-in at the end was the correct decision? Brogan's run was impeded because his heels were clipped, accidental or not that's a free in my book

Kildare didnt deserve to be in that game let alone get a draw out of it anyway

I think accidental does make a difference. Surely a defender is entitled to run with him and if the contact is accidental I don't think it's a free. Some people have said there was a tug on the jersey. To be honest I didn't notice that but if true then it was a free.

sendit · 26-06-2011 07:35PM

In the Mayo V Galway game Higgins punched a player in the side of head, if that had been Galvin or Tomas O Se im sure the cccc would already be meeting to dicuss the longest ban available.

TopOfTheRight · 26-06-2011 07:59PM

Pegasusbridge wrote: »

I think accidental does make a difference. Surely a defender is entitled to run with him and if the contact is accidental I don't think it's a free. Some people have said there was a tug on the jersey. To be honest I didn't notice that but if true then it was a free.

Look at it from the forward's point of view though, if i'm running out to a loose ball and i have my legs taken from under me, i think i'm entitled to a free whether it was accidental or not

TouchingVirus · 26-06-2011 08:03PM

Pegasusbridge wrote: »

Some people have said there was a tug on the jersey. To be honest I didn't notice that but if true then it was a free.

Please don't quote me on that, I was at the match and seated in Lower Cusack. It's what I thought the free was for, and heard a few others about me say the same thing. I'm waiting for the Sunday Game

homerjay2005 · 26-06-2011 08:03PM

i did the reffing course when i was younger and alot of the rules of the game are crap and really hinder the refs. if they keep to them, the are running the risk of runing the game.alot of the rules are not known by everybody, for instance shouldering a lad off the ball is not allowed depending on the direction that the ball is going, yet you never see them given. theres a good few in there.

Pegasusbridge · 26-06-2011 08:07PM

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Look at it from the forward's point of view though, if i'm running out to a loose ball and i have my legs taken from under me, i think i'm entitled to a free whether it was accidental or not

I do see your point. I suppose I would argue that it does depend on the circumstances of the incident. Maybe it is a bit unfair on somebody no matter what decision is made.

Browney7 · 26-06-2011 08:10PM

I think its time for 2 refs to be honest. One for each half of the field. Either that or give the linesmen more power to give decisions like in soccer.

Refereeing has been poor in the hurling aswell. James Owens was terrible last week in the Clare Tipp game and Barry Kelly missed as clear as day a free for Limerick in the last minute of their game against Waterford. Add in the farse of added time in the offaly game yesterday and people are going to start questioning the refs big time.

TopOfTheRight · 26-06-2011 08:24PM

Browney7 wrote: »

I think its time for 2 refs to be honest. One for each half of the field. Either that or give the linesmen more power to give decisions like in soccer.

Refereeing has been poor in the hurling aswell. James Owens was terrible last week in the Clare Tipp game and Barry Kelly missed as clear as day a free for Limerick in the last minute of their game against Waterford. Add in the farse of added time in the offaly game yesterday and people are going to start questioning the refs big time.

I cant see the case for two refs too be honest, the only reason for that would be if the refs were too unfit to keep up with the game and i cant say thats a problem at inter-county level.
I'll say it again that the rulebook is the problem, if the rules were clearly laid out and we werent depending solely on each individual's interpretation we'd have a game that was much easier to referee

TouchingVirus · 26-06-2011 08:26PM

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

I cant see the case for two refs too be honest, the only reason for that would be if the refs were too unfit to keep up with the game and i cant say thats a problem at inter-county level.
I'll say it again that the rulebook is the problem, if the rules were clearly laid out and we werent depending solely on each individual's interpretation we'd have a game that was much easier to referee

Individual interpretation doesn't seem to be a huge problem in rugby, the teams get used to the ref pretty early in the matches because if they don't there'll be problems.

ormond lad · 26-06-2011 08:30PM

No need for 2 refs in g. football, hurling needs 2 refs much more than football does.
what will make football a much better game is a clearly defined tackle in the rulebook.
you play to how a ref interperates the rules

TopOfTheRight · 26-06-2011 08:31PM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Individual interpretation doesn't seem to be a huge problem in rugby, the teams get used to the ref pretty early in the matches because if they don't there'll be problems.

But rugby has very little interpretation involved compared to football or hurling - the rules are very clearly laid out. At the breakdown it will vary from referee to referee but they still all know what is allowed and what isnt, they are completely protected by the rulebook in terms of tackling for example which i find is the biggest problem in the GAA

ormond lad · 26-06-2011 08:32PM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Individual interpretation doesn't seem to be a huge problem in rugby, the teams get used to the ref pretty early in the matches because if they don't there'll be problems.

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

But rugby has very little interpretation involved compared to football or hurling - the rules are very clearly laid out. At the breakdown it will vary from referee to referee but they still all know what is allowed and what isnt, they are completely protected by the rulebook in terms of tackling for example which i find is the biggest problem in the GAA

Laws;) there is laws in rugby not rules

TopOfTheRight · 26-06-2011 09:03PM

On another note i though McStay was way out of order with his comments during the match, i cant stand him at the best of times but amateur referees do not deserve the kind of criticism that was given out today even at the worst of times

It's one thing to question a decision but to come out and say it is definitely wrong is another thing as far as i'm concerned

ballykev · 27-06-2011 08:17AM

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Look at it from the forward's point of view though, if i'm running out to a loose ball and i have my legs taken from under me, i think i'm entitled to a free whether it was accidental or not

It is 100% not a free, it the player if the player leg gets taken from under him by accident. are you for real?

Referees - something needs to be done

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