It's a tough life for a man...

Eve_Dublin · 24-06-2011 05:17PM #1

Thought this article might interest you....definitely some truth to it when I lived in the UK...not sure about Ireland...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jun/23/a-tough-life-for-men

Bottle_of_Smoke · 24-06-2011 05:44PM

Yeah its a pretty sad situation. Heart breaks for the man who got Paedo shouted at him for telling kids not to misbehave, probably twice as bad for priests.

Morgase · 24-06-2011 05:57PM

That was a sad read, I feel rotten for that poor old man whose dog died.

I suppose it is as bad here in Ireland. What proportion of primary school teachers are male nowadays? When I went to primary school in the 80s, it was fairly even. We had a great mix of teachers of both genders with all their differing styles of teaching.

The attitude of "man being nice to children = paedo" does nobody any good. It shoves women into the nurturing role, but even worse it paints men who are good with children as unnatural.

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2011 06:04PM

Read this in the comments section...

It's not that much better when you have got a dog.

When some kid runs up to ask "can I stroke your dog mister" you'd better make eye contact with their mum fast to reassure them you're not using your puppy as a kidnapping tool.

I'm young and I got weird looks from a mother the other day whose kids ran over to pet my dog. I made the dog sit etc so the kids could pat her, mother comes running out of her house grabs the kids, shoots me an evil look and ushers her kids inside the house.

Too much hyperbole surrounding paedophiles etc.

Eve_Dublin · 24-06-2011 06:09PM

Funny, there isn't that kind of attitude in Spain. If a child gets on a Metro, everyone plays with the kid, older men on their own included. There isn't that kind of suspicion. Thing is though, I do see older guys checking out very young girls in a very non-subtle way and many of my foreign friends confirmed that (males included) and Spain also has the second highest rate of downloading of child pornography in the world after the USA. Not sure what point I'm making as of course these men are a tiny percentage...but it does make you wary even though it's not fair to label all men like that. I suppose I lived with UK and Irish media for too long. I suppose I never felt it was justified in Ireland...older men never gave me the creeps back in the day...there was always the odd one but generally no. I really think it's out of hand in the UK...the tabloids and their "paedo" witch hunt. Very sad indeed.

Morgase · 24-06-2011 07:14PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I'm young and I got weird looks from a mother the other day whose kids ran over to pet my dog. I made the dog sit etc so the kids could pat her, mother comes running out of her house grabs the kids, shoots me an evil look and ushers her kids inside the house.

I get that a parent only wants what's best for their child, but couldn't that mother have just kept an eye from the house if she was that worried? I think she's sending the wrong message to her kids by reacting the way she did.

24-06-2011 08:22PM

And Mr X, another elderly chum of mine, reprimanded some staggeringly rude youngsters on a bus, who responded by shouting "paedophile!" triumphantly. All the other passengers went silent and twitchy, and the children went on freely shoving people about and shrieking filth and nastiness, with no one daring to say a word

The article makes good points but I think this part would happen anyway no matter what they yelled...

FewFew · 24-06-2011 08:40PM

I was a scout leader for years and this sort of thing is getting much worse. When I was an actual scout, you wouldn't dare say anything like that, but maybe more to the point, you wouldn't think of shouting anything like that.

We regularly took photos on hikes etc., the scout den was decorated in collages and photo boards. Recently enough we were on an activity with another scout troop and I was snapping photos as per usual, and one of the scouts asked me if I was a paedophile. What do you do in that situation? If it was anything else you could just give out to them or just say something witty, but the word has this paralyzing effect on anybody in that type of environment. Stuff like that can ruin lives.

Then there's the never be alone with a child rule, which makes perfect sense and I always enforced it, but there have been emergency situations, usually first aid related, where once you'd know exactly what to do, but now it's nearly more terrifying to be on your own with a kid than to risk further possible injury.

Mad world altogether.

SugarHigh · 24-06-2011 08:54PM

bluewolf wrote: »

The article makes good points but I think this part would happen anyway no matter what they yelled...

I don't know if that's true. The man obviously wasn't intimated by the kids it was only when they shouted pedophile he got intimated and shut up. If they just shouted other crap I doubt he would have felt intimated otherwise he wouldn't have spoken up in the first place. There really isn't anything else you can that will have the impact of calling a man a pedophile/rapist.

Look at this bint who was trespassing on private property so decides to start shouting rape when she's removed.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rape-claims-were-hurled-at-gardai-by-protesters-2800104.html

The accusation of rape is often used as a weapon against men and there isn't a whole you can do to defend yourself. It's even used as political currency by feminist groups, whenever they want to make a point they will start mentioning rape stats no matter how irrelevant simply because of the impact the word has. Just like when they wanted the Hunky Dory ads banned so they claimed they put women at risk of being raped. Complete nonsense but it gives them a lot of power.

Galvasean · 24-06-2011 10:16PM

SugarHigh wrote: »

Look at this bint who was trespassing on private property so decides to start shouting rape when she's removed.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rape-claims-were-hurled-at-gardai-by-protesters-2800104.html

Wow, first I've heard of that. So, protesters trivialize rape , then complain when the Gards do it. Nice.

SugarHigh wrote: »

The accusation of rape is often used as a weapon against men and there isn't a whole you can do to defend yourself. It's even used as political currency by feminist groups, whenever they want to make a point they will start mentioning rape stats no matter how irrelevant simply because of the impact the word has. Just like when they wanted the Hunky Dory ads banned so they claimed they put women at risk of being raped. Complete nonsense but it gives them a lot of power.

I remember those ads. Very effective. Never before had I wanted so badly to rape a bag of crisps and eat a woman.

mikemac · 24-06-2011 11:42PM

Did a bit of GAA coaching in the past for the local school.
One thing made clear to me was you never ever let yourself be the only adult in the changing rooms.
One wrong comment about a look or touch or even grab a lad to stop messing and your good name can be ruined. Mud sticks.

And while I didn't see it I read over in the photograghy forum about amateur photographers talking photos at games and then getting confronted by parents. Hysteria!

Much the same as taking the lads to the local swimming pool. What man wants to be in the changing room supervising a group.

Galvasean · 25-06-2011 12:35AM

I actually know a lad who was going to video tape a football match his son was playing in and was asked not to in case the other parents objected to it. That's really messed up.

pragmatic1 · 25-06-2011 01:27AM

Morgase wrote: »

That was a sad read, I feel rotten for that poor old man whose dog died.

I suppose it is as bad here in Ireland. What proportion of primary school teachers are male nowadays? When I went to primary school in the 80s, it was fairly even. We had a great mix of teachers of both genders with all their differing styles of teaching.

The attitude of "man being nice to children = paedo" does nobody any good. It shoves women into the nurturing role, but even worse it paints men who are good with children as unnatural.

Very good point. Think in my national school the majority of teachers were male at one time. Now I'd be surprised if more than one or two were. Its kinda sad for kids, especially boys because they've less male role models now than when I was a kid.

Larianne · 25-06-2011 01:28AM

I went out with a guy who was a primary school teacher. The rules stated that he couldn't touch the kids at all. If they fell in the playground he wasn't allowed pick them up or give them a hug. He risked his job pulling two boys apart who were fighting in the playground. What was he meant to do? Let them batter each other?

snickerpuss · 25-06-2011 01:36AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Very good point. Think in my national school the majority of teachers were male at one time. Now I'd be surprised if more than one or two were. Its kinda sad for kids, especially boys because they've less male role models now than when I was a kid.

I fully agree, it's a real pity that so few men are teachers but I always feel that it's said as though it's something men can't control. Really, the onus is on them to become teachers. No one is stopping them and they're the ones who need to get the points/qualification. I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this. I think they really see it as woman's work which is sad because it would be great to have more male role models at primary level.

Wolfe Tone · 25-06-2011 01:37AM

snickerpuss wrote: »

I fully agree, it's a real pity that so few men are teachers but I always feel that it's said as though it's something men can't control. Really, the onus is on them to become teachers. No one is stopping them and they're the ones who need to get the points/qualification. I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this. I think they really see it as woman's work which is sad because it would be great to have more male role models at primary level.

It doesnt help when you get curious looks for saying you want to work with kids.

pragmatic1 · 25-06-2011 01:50AM

snickerpuss wrote: »

I fully agree, it's a real pity that so few men are teachers but I always feel that it's said as though it's something men can't control. Really, the onus is on them to become teachers. No one is stopping them and they're the ones who need to get the points/qualification. I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this. I think they really see it as woman's work which is sad because it would be great to have more male role models at primary level.

I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers, but theres no balance in that profession now.

snickerpuss · 25-06-2011 02:27AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It doesnt help when you get curious looks for saying you want to work with kids.

I agree. It's a truly sad state of affairs. I think most people are now far more aware or worried about things involving children. I was filming my mates at a funfair the other week and was very conscious that there were kids in it, though inadvertantly. It sucks that I'm even thinking that way, you know? (And I'm a woman)

Mrmoe · 25-06-2011 11:28AM

There is definitely an element of truth to this. I don't know where it comes from though but I think the main problem is over sensitivity to sensationalist tabloid headlines. It creates a fear of the way that you are perceived. I happens to me loads of times. If the kids in my estate come up talking to me I am always cautious not to chat for too long and make some excuse and go. Even something as walking on a footpath behind a woman alone, I would often feel compelled to cross the street so as to seem less "rapey". I don't think there is anything anybody else can do to overcome this, it has to be up to the individual to snap out of it and be brave enough to not be tricked in to thinking that you are automatically guilty just because you are a man.

source · 25-06-2011 01:11PM

Agree fully with the mrmoe, but if we stood up and said no more then this would stop. We take this too easily.

It's disgusting that I have to curtail my interactions with children because I'm a man. Why should I feel guilty for what A FEW men have done to SOME children? A few sick twisted shouldn't be alive men do not represent me, or my sex. This sh1t infuriates me. It really does.

I fear that it will get so bad, that in the future fathers won't be able to go out by themselves with their own kids. A ridiculous comment I know. But one that I really do believe we're heading towards if the kind of gutter rags that vilify men like this keep publishing their crap.

Sky King · 25-06-2011 02:30PM

I dunno there's stuff women can't do without raising eyebrows. I knew a girl who travelled a lot with work and she said a women couldn't have a drink in the bar on their own without people assuming she was a hooker or trying to get picked up... if you're a guy - no probs.

Logical Fallacy · 25-06-2011 02:32PM

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

I dunno there's stuff women can't do without raising eyebrows. I knew a girl who travelled a lot with work and she said a women couldn't have a drink in the bar on their own without people assuming she was a hooker or trying to get picked up... if you're a guy - no probs.

Someday it will be possible to have a thread about boards about the issues faced by one of the genders without someone coming in with "yeah...but".

Or not.

Sky King · 25-06-2011 02:45PM

You're totally right, we should only ever post in a thread if we are 100% in agreement.

Galvasean · 25-06-2011 03:35PM

snickerpuss wrote: »

I have a few male friends who I think would make great teachers but they are always aghast when I say this.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It doesnt help when you get curious looks for saying you want to work with kids.

When I was in secondary friend of mine (male) wanted to go on to do primary school teaching. People would always call him names like 'peedo' and 'kiddy fiddler', mostly joking mind you, but some people did question it quite seriously behind his back, "He wants to work with kids, WHY would he want to do that?", in an accusatory tone. He abandoned the idea and no works in marketing.
Interestingly, another friend of mine from the same group, year, social circle etc. had the very same intentions and is now a full fledged primary school teacher and was never once subjected to even light name calling or questioning of intentions. The only difference? she's female.
It's like people don't seem to realise that women can abuse kids too.

Dr Galen · 25-06-2011 03:51PM

You wann try being a nurse lads. Mostly never had a problem but the odd time some eejit thinks it's a bit strange. While I was training I had thought that I might go and specialise in children's nursing too. I was told that it was possible that I might habve to have a chaperone from time to time when dealing with girls. Funnily my mate who is a doctor specialising in children's medicine never had an issue.

Pembily · 25-06-2011 04:32PM

I am a scout leader and it makes me so so so mad that the two best leaders I know are male yet they can't mind kids without me with them!!! I am not a parent yet both these men have children but they are automatically not trustworthy even though they have been "garda vetted" (pointless IMO). It's an absolute disgrace, I don't even bring cameras on camp anymore in case I am questioned!

Fewcifur wrote: »

We regularly took photos on hikes etc., the scout den was decorated in collages and photo boards. Recently enough we were on an activity with another scout troop and I was snapping photos as per usual, and one of the scouts asked me if I was a paedophile. What do you do in that situation? If it was anything else you could just give out to them or just say something witty, but the word has this paralyzing effect on anybody in that type of environment. Stuff like that can ruin lives.

I had a child say to me he would sue me for child abuse as I was making him put up a tent and he didn't want to... My response was making him work wasn't child abuse and he could sue all he wanted but I am broke! It is sick what these kids come out with but I just stand up to them and I know that people will have my back cause the kids who say that stuff already have a reputation!

Fewcifur wrote: »

Then there's the never be alone with a child rule, which makes perfect sense and I always enforced it, but there have been emergency situations, usually first aid related, where once you'd know exactly what to do, but now it's nearly more terrifying to be on your own with a kid than to risk further possible injury.

Mad world altogether.

Personally and sadly but I don't ever risk being alone. You can't!

Larianne wrote: »

I went out with a guy who was a primary school teacher. The rules stated that he couldn't touch the kids at all. If they fell in the playground he wasn't allowed pick them up or give them a hug. He risked his job pulling two boys apart who were fighting in the playground. What was he meant to do? Let them batter each other?

Yes, you let them batter each other! In the UK you can't put suncream on kids unless they are sunburnt cause then it's first aid :mad: :mad:

Yes women have it way easier but we still have to watch our backs but I agree with ye guys and it makes my blood boil!

hollypink · 25-06-2011 04:54PM

Galvasean wrote: »

When I was in secondary friend of mine (male) wanted to go on to do primary school teaching. People would always call him names like 'peedo' and 'kiddy fiddler', mostly joking mind you, but some people did question it quite seriously behind his back, "He wants to work with kids, WHY would he want to do that?", in an accusatory tone. He abandoned the idea and no works in marketing.
Interestingly, another friend of mine from the same group, year, social circle etc. had the very same intentions and is now a full fledged primary school teacher and was never once subjected to even light name calling or questioning of intentions. The only difference? she's female.
It's like people don't seem to realise that women can abuse kids too.

Interesting (and depressing) - is it that people now tend to view any man who wants to work/interact with children as suspicious/unnatural as though this isn't considered a male trait and therefore any male exhibiting it must have an ulterior motive i.e. paedophilia?

Galvasean · 25-06-2011 05:35PM

hollypink wrote: »

Interesting (and depressing) - is it that people now tend to view any man who wants to work/interact with children as suspicious/unnatural as though this isn't considered a male trait and therefore any male exhibiting it must have an ulterior motive i.e. paedophilia?

It seems to be the case. With my female friend, she is a great teacher and excellent with children. In school everyone was supportive of her career decision. The automatic assumption was (correctly) that she is such a kind/caring person and would be very well suited to the job. In the case of my male friend who shared all of the same virtues the automatic assumption was that he must be some kind of weirdy deviant who just wants access to kids for nefarious reasons.
I don't think I've ever come across a budding female primary school teacher who has been treated in such a manner. It's like people think women (and women exclusively) are all compassionate and caring motherly types when we know this is not always the case. I don't know exact stats/statistics of teachers engaging in unlawful sexual contact with students, but if you google 'teacher arrested sex student' the majority appear to be of female teachers on boys. So why is it that men seem to be under the most scrutiny?

Logical Fallacy · 25-06-2011 06:37PM

kilkenny flyer wrote: »

You're totally right, we should only ever post in a thread if we are 100% in agreement.

Where did i say everyone should agree? It's a simple fact that the thread is about the weird view some people can have of males, it's being discussed in a forum designed to broach males issues....as such...the thread is male centric.

When people do the "yeah....but" thing in threads about a gender it always reduces the thread to a literal he said/she said scenario and just kills it dead.

With regards to the actual topic, i've been walking past a group of teenage girls at night time who think it hilarious to scream "rape!" and then have a laugh as if it's some kind of hilarious joke.

A good friend of mine had his life completely destroyed by someone who decided to put around rumours that he was taking sexual advantage of his students. Despite the fact that any investigation led back to the fact that the person was lying, and all his students came out and defended him as being a great teacher it was too late...he'll never work with students again and has been on the receiving end of acts of violence from people in the community he lived in...so much so that he had to move.

I'm aware that rape, child abuse etc is a very serious problem but this insane willingness from some quarters to instantly assume that the stranger on the street is a rapist or a pedo is ****ing nuts.

sollar · 25-06-2011 07:19PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers.

For who? I had two male teachers at primary school and both of them were excellent. The best teacher i had was male.

Dr Galen · 25-06-2011 07:22PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I agree. Its seen as a more female oriented career and I personally think women make better teachers, but theres no balance in that profession now.

what would lead you to think that women make better teachers?

It's a tough life for a man...

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