Newgrange location

gkell1 · 05-01-2011 07:13PM #1

One of the most fascinating aspects of the site is the careful thought behind the placement of the monument as the geography of the area indicates that the intervening hill between the light of the Sun and roofbox/passageway is just right to capture the full force of the Sun's light at just the right height.

Too close to the coast and the Sun is still too red in the morning to have any impact,too far and not the right height and the passage from the roofbox to the central chamber would be unworkable in terms of the shaft of light.People just don't think this way any more and despite the best efforts of the people now in charge of the monument and promoting it,their ideas could be better,for instance,the builders would have been limited to where they could locate something as magnificent as an astronomical clock and obviously putting it on a hill beside a river is just as intriguing as the monument itself.

We use,or rather misuse,the late 17th century Ra/Dec system while the builders used a different timekeeping reckoning ,readers know this insofar as the Solstice always happens Dec 21st whether there are 365 days or 366 days in a calendar year but this is altogether a different aspect of a very old and magnificent astronomical heritage.

Bog Butter · 06-01-2011 11:07PM

Newgrange maybe an ‘astronomical clock’ however was that its primary function?

If you get a guided tour of Newgrange you have to be told of the story of the Prehistoric people, specifically the Neolithic people. Newgrange fits within this much wider context and the astronomical aspect is very important but it’s only a part of it.

If we narrow down the context to the construction of passage tombs (one of four types of megalithic tombs, of which there are 1350 in Ireland) people must be told of their function and meaning. They were used in the burial of the dead and they also had a ceremonial function. The designers of Newgrange utilised their astronomical knowledge in its construction in order to for fill these cultural practices and ideas etc.

The tour guide is faced with the challenge of explaining the whole story.

Kristopherus · 06-01-2011 11:32PM

I have to say that I was very disappointed with the standard of the tour guides or rather the "guiding" . They cram several centuries into one or two sentences. On a recent visit in what I would call the Off season, two obviously experienced guides rattled off the exact same story of the place without a hint of an ad-lib or even a joke. And damn all interaction with the tourists either. Having said that I had a thoroughly satisfying day going to all the adjacent sites as well.

gkell1 · 07-01-2011 06:30PM

malman wrote: »

Newgrange maybe an ‘astronomical clock’ however was that its primary function?

I can't say that it is an unfair question but I wouldn't ask it myself,the work of master engineers,quarrymen,material and transportation experts by land and sea, astronomers, architects,artists and all the social stability would be roughly the same at Newgrange as it was for a society that built the cathedrals or the Great Pyramid.Although bodies were buried in cathedrals I don't think anyone would conclude that cathedrals were built as tombs hence I am more comfortable looking at the technical ins and outs of Newgrange,what choices and limitations the builders faced in connecting the building to the surrounding geography and then refining it further between roofbox/passageway and the annual cycle of the Earth,for all these things combined produce an amazing spectacle using light and shadow.

malman wrote: »

If you get a guided tour of Newgrange you have to be told of the story of the Prehistoric people, specifically the Neolithic people. Newgrange fits within this much wider context and the astronomical aspect is very important but it’s only a part of it.

Our colonial cousins are inclined to taint historical perspectives as it once suited their purposes to imagine civilization began in earnest with the Greeks even when the Greeks themselves looked back at the Egyptian era as a sort of lost golden age.Newgrange has had an effect in pushing human astronomical knowledge back many thousands of years and I am sure that more than a few here would have felt the sting of being told in the not too distant past that the roofbox spectacle was a mere coincidence as it is inclined to interfere with the belief of the Greeks discovering everything scientifically worthwhile leaving civilizations before them as either hippies or savages.

Thank God the guides have stopped pushing neolithic art as drug induced works considering that the Knowth lunar calendar is amongst the oldest in the world -

http://www.knowth.com/stooke/knowth4.gif

The fact that the spiral intersects with the lunar positions at 3 points contains a tantalizing snippet of information,at least astronomically, but that is as far as I go with these things as obviously it is a language of sorts and perhaps the inscriptions on the stones around the Knowth monument is some sort of neolithic textbook.

malman wrote: »

If we narrow down the context to the construction of passage tombs (one of four types of megalithic tombs, of which there are 1350 in Ireland) people must be told of their function and meaning. They were used in the burial of the dead and they also had a ceremonial function. The designers of Newgrange utilised their astronomical knowledge in its construction in order to for fill these cultural practices and ideas etc.

The tour guide is faced with the challenge of explaining the whole story.

I would imagine that the people who receive most out of Newgrange as a testament to human achievement are those who do not consider our ancestors as the harsh term of 'prehistoric' but as equals and in some cases having more depth than we do,after all,a feat like Newgrange takes many attributes and skills to achieve hence it was not an attack on the guides who do their best but rather a genuine appreciation of the connection between building and geography,geography and astronomy and the way our ancestors linked these things.

Guides can be adept at deflecting questions from astronomical to 'spiritual' and that is fine and even understandable as a tactic,they are not expected to comprehend the technical details which makes the building such a jewel,after all,you can describe the shape of a car and what functions a person uses it for without knowing much about how the engine works,how it is connected to the gearbox and things like that however there will always be those who take a wider view and that is where the rewards are,at least I have found it so.

sensibleken · 24-02-2011 05:10PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

I have to say that I was very disappointed with the standard of the tour guides or rather the "guiding" . They cram several centuries into one or two sentences. On a recent visit in what I would call the Off season, two obviously experienced guides rattled off the exact same story of the place without a hint of an ad-lib or even a joke. And damn all interaction with the tourists either. Having said that I had a thoroughly satisfying day going to all the adjacent sites as well.

Go to Loughcrew. there no tour guide there so you can spend as much time as you want. sometimes there is a guy from the OPW there who will tell you great stories about some of the lunatics he gets there. Including the reincarnation of Jerimiah and his followers

rccaulfield · 02-03-2011 07:42PM

Pay no attention to gkell1 folks. He's basically jumnping forums trying to peddle the idea that scientists are covering up a conspiracy about there being 366 days a year in our calender not 365.25. He's been shunned from the astronomy forum afaik!

camlinhall · 24-06-2011 07:04PM

gkell1 wrote: »

Newgrange has had an effect in pushing human astronomical knowledge back many thousands of years

By observing the winter solstice? They didn't even need a light box to do that. Does it do more than mark the furthest southerly sunrise? If not, the construction is a bit over-rated, except perhaps in a cultural and artistic context. But I'll take scolding for this, maybe rightly.

oriel36 · 25-06-2011 06:47AM

rccaulfield wrote: »

Pay no attention to gkell1 folks. He's basically jumnping forums trying to peddle the idea that scientists are covering up a conspiracy about there being 366 days a year in our calender not 365.25. He's been shunned from the astronomy forum afaik!

I am not throwing good information after bad but any reader who wishes to appreciate the astronomical facet of Newgrange will not be able to do so in a world which believes something as silly as the following statement -

"The Earth spins on its axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4 days per year." NASA

Just to put that extremely dumb statement in context of seasonal temperature differences,and the ancients who lived by the seasons would certainly have been in tune with what to expect and as differences in daylight and darkness varied throughout the year,let's look at what we know.

It is possible to read the rotation of the Earth out of any temperature legend as the temperature fluctuations between day and night are due to daily rotation -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/31?&search=dublin&itemsPerPage=10&region=world

Between Mar1 st 2008 and Feb 29th 2012 there will be 1461 rotations and the temperature will rise and fall in tandem with these rotation hence the proportion is 1461 rotations for 4 years/orbital circuits or 365 1/4 rotations to 1 orbital circuit.The extra rotation of Feb 29th picks up the 1/4 rotation omitted each non-leap year and although it takes a small effort to sort through the details,there is nothing remotely difficult in accepting that 365 1/4 rotations take place in 365 1/4 days.

You see,Newgrange is probably the most important monument in existence because of the information it conveys,not so much a judgement on the people who built it but on the standard we set ourselves and how our generation has jumped the tracks in the most basic astronomical things.A society which cannot explain why the temperature rises and falls each 24 hours due to daily rotation,and you cannot do this with the NASA statement,cannot explain any temperature fluctuation and in a world dominated by the belief of human control over global temperatures,a place such as Newgrange makes its own important statement that we have lost something along the way.

Perhaps a reader enjoys how to extract daily rotation from a temperature legend,how it meshes with 4 years and 4 orbital circuits and the short step to expressing it as 365 1/4 rotations per circuit hence there is no conspiracy but rather enjoyment of a heritage which stretches back to remote antiquity.I have been banned from this forum for promoting the heritage of my own country and the people who once lived here thousands of years ago.It is about time we started to show the rest of the world the depth of our heritage and that we are not beggars but thrive in all areas of human endeavor and most notably in astronomy.It is probably a confidence thing, being comfortable with our own heritage and I have no doubt that despite the obstacles and the current nonsensical novelties of empiricism,people do feel a depth and intense satisfaction when encountering astronomical things,Newgrange being among them.

camlinhall · 25-06-2011 10:57AM

I never knew they had thermometers back then.
There you go...

oriel36 · 26-06-2011 08:26PM

camlinhall wrote: »

I never knew they had thermometers back then.
There you go...

I have just told you that contemporaries don't have the basic grip on the relationship between daily temperature fluctuations and daily rotation,as the Newgrange builders would have known the seasonal fluctuations in temperatures along with the amount of days in a year to keep the alignment fixed to the shortest daylight period of Dec 21st hence their natural thermometers were that of seasonal life based on reaping and sowing or when winter was at its darkest,or summer at its height and so on.

In contrast to this is the one sentence wonders of today who couldn't figure out a basic correspondence between the number of rotations across the calendar cycle of 4 years or 1461 rotations for 4 orbital circuits making 365 1/4 rotations per circuit.When you can't add the number of days in a year and the corresponding amount of rotations,and empiricists firmly believe in 366 1/4 rotations per circuit,it tells you that there are people out there with beliefs that descend beneath a flat Earth ideology as all it requires is the ability to count.

I am a Christian and understand well the thoughts of Augustine when encountering people who have no respect for any tradition and it applies equally well to those who can't interpret natural phenomena as much as it does Christianity -

"If' anyone shall set the authority of Holy Writ against clear and manifest reason, he who does this knows not what he has undertaken; for he opposes to the truth not the meaning of the Bible, which is beyond his comprehension, but rather his own interpretation not what is in the Bible, but what he has found in himself and imagines to be there." Augustine

You probably would have trouble with that statement but it means simply that if you are not good enough to interpret a simple modern temperature legend and arrive at a proper conclusion then it is impossible to comment on what the ancients knew and built.This is why Newgrange is important,it tells you what you don't know rather than what you do know.

If you can't handle technical details,stay clear of speculating about Newgrange.

camlinhall · 26-06-2011 08:40PM

Are there any academics who know even roughly what Newgrange represents?
I get the impression that even those tasked by accredited universities to expand our knowledge of pre-Christian Irish societies aren't placing bets, and are unafraid to admit our want of narrative so far.

oriel36 · 26-06-2011 08:59PM

camlinhall wrote: »

Are there any academics who know even roughly what Newgrange represents?

I will tell you one thing it represents,in a world convinced that humans have control over global temperatures through a minor atmospheric gas,Newgrange makes a mockery of that interpretation as if you can't work out that 1461 days and rotations keep the daily and annual cycles in sync with each other,then you can't construct or appreciate monuments like Newgrange.

"The Earth spins on its axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4 days per year" NASA

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970714.html

The Newgrange monument is one of the most important in existence,when a society can't even explain the cause of why temperatures rise and fall daily,and it ain't going to be done with 366 1/4 rotations in a year,then you can be certain that we as a society are in big trouble yet here is this monument which reflects information people here are unable or unwilling to affirm.

A few academics, like a few bankers can temporarily destroy a heritage, in this case a stupid mistake made in the late 17th century by attempting to dump the daily and annual motions of the Earth into right ascension where Newton built his toxic strain of empiricism that is now giving us reckless and worthless speculative nonsense , human control over global temperatures being one of them.

I will do what I can to promote and protect the astronomical heritage of Ireland found in Newgrange and that place is worth protecting as it is a testament to human achievement and skill.

sensibleken · 28-06-2011 02:35PM

camlinhall wrote: »

Are there any academics who know even roughly what Newgrange represents?
I get the impression that even those tasked by accredited universities to expand our knowledge of pre-Christian Irish societies aren't placing bets, and are unafraid to admit our want of narrative so far.

what it represented to the builders? no, unfortunetely not. There are plenty of theories around and nearly all academics will speculate on it but few would say concretely that their view is the correct one. The last study i read by Anthony Murphy and Richard Moore "Island of the Setting Sun: In Search of Ireland's Ancient Astronomers" had some interesting ideas. Im not sure i agree with everything but a good study none the less.

when it comes down to it newgrange is simply the focus of a large network of astronomical neolithic builings. knowth and loughcrew have far more to say in my opinion

camlinhall · 28-06-2011 03:35PM

sensibleken wrote: »

When it comes down to it newgrange is simply the focus of a large network of astronomical neolithic builings. knowth and loughcrew have far more to say in my opinion

Interesting, thanks.
Do you find what's commonly said: that the observational aspect of the structure in Newgrange is interesting for its demonstration of considerably developed scientific knowledge within the historical period? The sunrise (and it's position and implication) doesn't seem a difficult thing to figure out even for more primitive cultures than the one in question.

fontanalis · 28-06-2011 03:36PM

oriel36 wrote: »

I will tell you one thing it represents,in a world convinced that humans have control over global temperatures through a minor atmospheric gas,Newgrange makes a mockery of that interpretation as if you can't work out that 1461 days and rotations keep the daily and annual cycles in sync with each other,then you can't construct or appreciate monuments like Newgrange.

"The Earth spins on its axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4 days per year" NASA

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970714.html

The Newgrange monument is one of the most important in existence,when a society can't even explain the cause of why temperatures rise and fall daily,and it ain't going to be done with 366 1/4 rotations in a year,then you can be certain that we as a society are in big trouble yet here is this monument which reflects information people here are unable or unwilling to affirm.

A few academics, like a few bankers can temporarily destroy a heritage, in this case a stupid mistake made in the late 17th century by attempting to dump the daily and annual motions of the Earth into right ascension where Newton built his toxic strain of empiricism that is now giving us reckless and worthless speculative nonsense , human control over global temperatures being one of them.

I will do what I can to promote and protect the astronomical heritage of Ireland found in Newgrange and that place is worth protecting as it is a testament to human achievement and skill.

I might regret this but Newgranges main feature seems to be reliant on sunlight not sun heat. I'm baffled to what your whole point is.

sensibleken · 28-06-2011 04:46PM

camlinhall wrote: »

Interesting, thanks.
Do you find what's commonly said: that the observational aspect of the structure in Newgrange is interesting for its demonstration of considerably developed scientific knowledge within the historical period? The sunrise (and it's position and implication) doesn't seem a difficult thing to figure out even for more primitive cultures than the one in question.

I think its very significant. and probably more so in terms of loughcrew. but in terms of newgrance its been shown that the tracing of the winter solstice sunrise starts at two standing stones at baltray and ends several miles away over at newgrange. it does demonstrate a highly sophisticated knowledge not only of astronomy but also plane geometry, constuction techniques, organisation and sociatal cohesiveness in a very different climate to what ireland is today. i certainly would not underate the neolithic builders that did this

camlinhall · 28-06-2011 05:29PM

sensibleken wrote: »

I think its very significant. and probably more so in terms of loughcrew. but in terms of newgrance its been shown that the tracing of the winter solstice sunrise starts at two standing stones at baltray and ends several miles away over at newgrange. it does demonstrate a highly sophisticated knowledge not only of astronomy but also plane geometry, constuction techniques, organisation and sociatal cohesiveness in a very different climate to what ireland is today. i certainly would not underate the neolithic builders that did this

OK, it's just that I can't see myself how you need astronomy or geometry at all, as the solstice is so easily established by saying: I saw the sun rising just right of hill 'A' while standing on hill 'B' five miles away, and that's as far to the right it ever rises. From doing this simple thing in past years I can predict the sun will start rising more and more to the left of that position as the days pass, and we anticipate summer again. Is there more to it I've missed?

sensibleken · 28-06-2011 05:38PM

camlinhall wrote: »

OK, it's just that I can't see myself how you need astronomy or geometry at all, as the solstice is so easily established by saying: I saw the sun rising just right of hill 'A' while standing on hill 'B' five miles away, and that's as far to the right it ever rises. From doing this simple thing in past years I can predict the sun will start rising more and more to the left of that position as the days pass, and we anticipate summer again. Is there more to it I've missed?

yes theres a bit more to it but i'd need diagrams. you could probably do it quite easily but then try and do it after forgetting the last 6000 years of scientific knowledge. how many years do you need to do it for before you can say its consistant, what if its cloudy, how do you record it and pass on information, measure the distance, angles and movements from day to day without anything invented in the last 6000 years, now make it so it transverses a tunnel at a certain time of day on a specific day.

It may not be rocket science but it is none the less impressive

camlinhall · 28-06-2011 07:40PM

Actually there's no angles or distances involved. Newgrange is a different story, granted, but for solstice observation unnecessary. The Mesoamerica solstice trackers have been demonstrated to work by simple observation of where the sun appears or disappears, no calculation required. They used the undulations on nearby hills to spot when the sun had turned back, no measurements involved. And not a great deal of explaining for the next generation. Newgrange has something extraordinary to tell us, but what?

oriel36 · 28-06-2011 07:43PM

fontanalis wrote: »

I might regret this but Newgranges main feature seems to be reliant on sunlight not sun heat. I'm baffled to what your whole point is.

Of course you are baffled,you are probably an empiricist who can't extract the Earth's rotation directly from the daily temperature rise and fall -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/101?

If you can count,and I don't know this for certain, there are 1461 rotations from Mar 1st 2008 until Feb 29th 2012 which breaks down into 365 1/4 rotations per year,as daily and orbital motions are distinct from one another,it follows that the 1/4 rotation omitted each non leap year is picked up by the extra rotation every leap day and the system returns back into sync Mar 1st 2012.

Are you regretting this already or are you still baffled that contemporaries insist there are 366 1/4 rotations in a year because some dummies in 17th century England decided that was the amount through the most spurious type of reasoning ?.

Now,for everyone else who can actually affirm that daylight turns to darkness and back again because the Earth rotates,even though the builders would have counted these as days from Solstice to Solstice,they would have known that you cannot show up after 365 days year after year and expect the alignment to remain fixed to shortest daylight period of the year known as the December Solstice.Like us,it always takes an extra day to keep everything in sync and the builders would have known this.

Still baffled ?,let me put it in terms that even you might understand - the following statement is far worse than believing a flat Earth ideology as all it takes is the ability to divide the 1461 rotations by 4 to arrive at 365 1/4 rotations per circuit and why Feb 29th is necessary -

"The Earth spins on its axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4 days per year" NASA

If Ireland as an nation is prepared to stand by and watch its astronomical heritage diminished in the extreme because everyone else is either too lazy or too indifferent to get their act straight then perhaps we deserve the world's ridicule.

oriel36 · 28-06-2011 08:03PM

camlinhall wrote: »

Actually there's no angles or distances involved. Newgrange is a different story, granted, but for solstice observation unnecessary.

People like you take their chances that the wider population are unfamiliar with time reckoning which is why we are in a present mess.You have dummies who believe that if you put two sticks in the ground you can get away with determining a solstice,that is your statement above, but even up to recent times observers knew that it has to be done a specific way -

"As this is the foundation of all astronomical Observations, the greatest exactness possible is to be used in drawing this line. For without having the true Meridian of the place where we live, we shall not be able to determine its Latitude, or the height of the Pole there, which is equal to it; and without this, there is no investigating the moment when the Sun enters the equinoctial, or solstitial points, and consequently no finding the length of the tropical year. But to find this Line, as all times are not alike, we are to chuse the most proper....."

http://books.google.com/books?id=jFQ_AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA70&dq=drawing+a+meridian+line&hl=en&ei=iiMKTsfQNsGAOt2XqLgB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=drawing%20a%20meridian%20line&f=false

You are alright son,academics generally are great at making assertions without fear of objection which is why most learn to keep their mouths shut when they encounter somebody who is familiar with the great Western timekeeping systems and how they evolved,for the most part,it is within the range of enjoyment of most reasonable people.Even such things as the 24 hour day didn't just pop into existence,you need a meridian line to fix natural noon and apply a correction to create a steady progression of days which turn into a steady progression of years -

"Draw a Meridian line upon a floor (the manner of doing which is sufficiently known; and note, that the utmost exactness herein is not necessary) and then hang two plummets, each by a small thred or wire, directly over the said Meridian, at the distance of some 2. feet or more one from the other, as the smalness of the thred will admit. When the middle of the Sun (the Eye being placed so, as to bring both the threds into one line) appears to be in the same line exactly you are then immediately to set the Watch, not precisely to the hour of 12. but by so much less, as is the Aequation of the day by the Table. " Huygens

http://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

Of course,due to empiricists,the vast majority of scientists don't accept the Earth rotates once in 24 hours but introduce a particularly dumb value of 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds.

So,we can't express how long it takes the Earth to turn 360 degrees (that would be 24 hours) nor how many rotations in a year (no more than a full 365 rotations) and people wonder what Newgrange is all about !.Before people start calling these monuments or the builders sophisticated they may have to deal with contemporary crudeness that is astonishing in its pervasiveness.

Riamfada · 28-06-2011 10:12PM

oriel36 wrote: »

Of course you are baffled,you are probably an empiricist who can't extract the Earth's rotation directly from the daily temperature rise

I do declare sir, such low brow daily mailesque comments will surely result in a locked thread or at the very least some light headed maidens. Keep it civil or there will be an outbreak of fisticuffs.

rccaulfield · 28-06-2011 10:44PM

oriel36 wrote: »

People like you take their chances that the wider population are unfamiliar with time reckoning which is why we are in a present mess.You have dummies who believe that if you put two sticks in the ground you can get away with determining a solstice,that is your statement above, but even up to recent times observers knew that it has to be done a specific way -
QUOTE]

Welcome back GKELL1, another thread that will say nothing solid just rambling jargon type NONSENSE and the odd insult to rEaders who aren't as "intelligent" as he is HA!, this time hes on about mystical temperture rises and refuses to say what he means by this don't hold your breadth folks!

MODS- WATCH THIS GUY!

oriel36 · 29-06-2011 12:13AM

rccaulfield wrote: »

oriel36 wrote: »

People like you take their chances that the wider population are unfamiliar with time reckoning which is why we are in a present mess.You have dummies who believe that if you put two sticks in the ground you can get away with determining a solstice,that is your statement above, but even up to recent times observers knew that it has to be done a specific way -
QUOTE]

Welcome back GKELL1, another thread that will say nothing solid just rambling jargon type NONSENSE and the odd insult to rEaders who aren't as "intelligent" as he is HA!, this time hes on about mystical temperture rises and refuses to say what he means by this don't hold your breadth folks!

MODS- WATCH THIS GUY!

Watch this guy indeed !,we deserve the ridicule of the world instead of its admiration if our astronomical heritage cannot be protected and it is not going to be done in an era that can't work through a few basic astronomical facts such as the time it takes the Earth to turn once or how many times in a year.

Do what you wish,it all comes down to technical details anyway and if readers wish to be intellectual traitors for the sake of a few dummies in late 17th century England then so be it.The idea is to promote the astronomical heritage of Ireland,not diminish it.

If readers are so tiimid as to require something as stupid as a warning then I don't belong here.

oriel36 · 29-06-2011 12:26AM

Riamfada wrote: »

I do declare sir, such low brow daily mailesque comments will surely result in a locked thread or at the very least some light headed maidens. Keep it civil or there will be an outbreak of fisticuffs.

Listen to yourselves,trying to be smart when there are people out there with a no nonsense approach,who don't look for rewards and are picking up the pieces of people who did not and do not do their jobs correctly.

Make sure you do lock the thread,as far as I can see we Irish do not want to grow up and take responsibility for what was passed down to us,we would rather offer something like Newgrange as a novelty to the world instead of a jewel.Again,Newgrange lets people know how much they don't know and believe you me that is as good a start as any.

oriel36 · 29-06-2011 12:51AM

sensibleken wrote: »

It may not be rocket science but it is none the less impressive

Rocket science is an engineering feat as is the actual nuts and bolts of Newgrange itself but when you consider what it does take to reflect accurately the motions of the Earth into a dynamic format of a light beam,something quite different as a conception,then you may understand just how subtle and delicate that operation is.

I only drew attention to a fact that any temperature legend which shows daily temperature fluctuations as a reflection of the Earth's rotation and in proportion to an orbital circuit and the engineering guys can't even get that far -

"The Earth spins on its axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4 days per year" NASA

Had they said the Earth was flat it would be less offensive yet this is the level at which academics approach basic astronomical facts such as 1461 rotations in 4 years which breaks down to 365 1/4 rotations per orbital circuit.

Nobody should have discuss astronomical things at this level but that is where the empirical world is at and if you can suffer a guy throwing around assertions about Solstice measurements that he only just trumped up in his imagination,it says more about you than him.The idea is that people can do better than this as ultimately it is how well and how clearly we can express our astronomical knowledge and heritage for multiple different things that are current but unlike many people who are unfamiliar with the huge issues behind all this and the obstacles put in the way,I give no time for the charlatans who are great at making assertions but cannot back them up openly.

fontanalis · 29-06-2011 02:40AM

oriel36 wrote: »

Of course you are baffled,you are probably an empiricist who can't extract the Earth's rotation directly from the daily temperature rise and fall -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/101?

If you can count,and I don't know this for certain, there are 1461 rotations from Mar 1st 2008 until Feb 29th 2012 which breaks down into 365 1/4 rotations per year,as daily and orbital motions are distinct from one another,it follows that the 1/4 rotation omitted each non leap year is picked up by the extra rotation every leap day and the system returns back into sync Mar 1st 2012.

Are you regretting this already or are you still baffled that contemporaries insist there are 366 1/4 rotations in a year because some dummies in 17th century England decided that was the amount through the most spurious type of reasoning ?.

Now,for everyone else who can actually affirm that daylight turns to darkness and back again because the Earth rotates,even though the builders would have counted these as days from Solstice to Solstice,they would have known that you cannot show up after 365 days year after year and expect the alignment to remain fixed to shortest daylight period of the year known as the December Solstice.Like us,it always takes an extra day to keep everything in sync and the builders would have known this.

Still baffled ?,let me put it in terms that even you might understand - the following statement is far worse than believing a flat Earth ideology as all it takes is the ability to divide the 1461 rotations by 4 to arrive at 365 1/4 rotations per circuit and why Feb 29th is necessary -

"The Earth spins on its axis about 366 and 1/4 times each year, but there are only 365 and 1/4 days per year" NASA

If Ireland as an nation is prepared to stand by and watch its astronomical heritage diminished in the extreme because everyone else is either too lazy or too indifferent to get their act straight then perhaps we deserve the world's ridicule.

Empirical counting or adding an extra one; hard to know for certain! How can you count whatever it is you're trying to prove from a weather forecast link?
The long wet evenings must fly by with you.

Pompey Magnus · 29-06-2011 05:11AM

Out of interest was there a good reason why the grass mound was left over the roof structure of Newgrange? Presumably the original feature would have had an exposed roof and I'd have thought it preferable to show the monument in as close as possible to it's original condition rather than something which may be more aesthetically striking.

Riamfada · 29-06-2011 08:00AM

Mind boggling

Newgrange location

Comments